Joe Rogan: Conversations, Ideas, Love, Freedom & The Joe Rogan Experience
音乐与艺术心理与人性生物与进化技术与编程体育与武术
🤖
AI 智能总结
乔·罗根谈对话、想法、爱与自由
这是 Lex Fridman 与播客之王 Joe Rogan 的深度对话，在 Lex 出现在 JRE 之后录制。两人探讨了好奇心的力量、迷幻药的体验、武术与哲学、AI 的未来，以及如何在这个复杂的世界中保持真实。
播客好奇心迷幻药武术AI言论自由意识
Joe Rogan 是美国喜剧演员、UFC 评论员和播客主持人，他的《Joe Rogan Experience》是全球收听量最大的播客之一，以长达数小时的深度对话和对各种话题的开放探索而闻名。
📌 核心观点
- 好奇心作为生活方式：罗根认为真正的好奇心——对从黑猩猩到量子力学的一切都保持开放——是他播客成功的核心。他不假装自己是专家，而是作为一个真诚的学习者与嘉宾对话。
- 迷幻药与意识扩展：罗根是迷幻药（特别是 DMT 和裸盖菇素）的公开倡导者，他认为这些体验从根本上改变了他对现实、意识和人类潜能的理解，应该在适当的环境下认真探索。
- 武术与哲学：罗根是巴西柔术黑带和跆拳道黑带，他认为武术不仅是格斗技术，更是一种哲学——关于谦逊、持续学习和面对失败的态度。
- 对 AI 的看法：罗根对 AI 的快速发展既感到兴奋又感到担忧，他认为 AI 将从根本上改变人类社会，但我们还没有认真思考这意味着什么。
- 言论自由与平台责任：罗根坚定支持言论自由，他认为平台不应该成为思想警察，但他也承认这在实践中非常复杂，特别是在涉及错误信息时。
✨ 金句摘录
罗根：我只是一个真诚好奇的人——从黑猩猩到量子力学，我对一切都感兴趣，这就是我的播客。
罗根：DMT 体验从根本上改变了我对现实的理解——那不是幻觉，那是另一种真实。
罗根：武术教会了我谦逊——无论你多厉害，总有人能打败你，这是最好的人生课程。
📋 章节目录
暂无章节信息
🔑 关键词
donpodcasttalkdoingguypersonideasbetterguardgoinggotguntalkingmanlisteningweirdfightmartialwholehuman
💬 精彩语录
暂无语录
🎙️ 完整对话（1858 条）
Lex Fridman (00:00.000)
The following is a conversation with Joe Rogan
以下是与乔·罗根的对话
Lex Fridman (00:03.180)
that we recorded after my recent appearance
我们在我最近出现后录制的
Lex Fridman (00:05.700)
on his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience.
在他的播客《乔·罗根经历》中。
Lex Fridman (00:08.900)
Joe has been a inspiration to me
乔给了我灵感
Lex Fridman (00:11.460)
and I thank to millions of people
我感谢数百万人
Joe Rogan (00:13.560)
for just being somebody who puts love out there in the world
因为只是成为一个将爱传播到世界上的人
Lex Fridman (00:17.660)
and being genuinely curious about wild ideas
并对疯狂的想法真诚地感到好奇
Joe Rogan (00:20.920)
from chimps and psychedelics to quantum mechanics
从黑猩猩和迷幻药到量子力学
Lex Fridman (00:24.780)
and artificial intelligence.
和人工智能。
Joe Rogan (00:26.800)
Like many of you, I've been a fan of his podcast
和你们许多人一样，我一直是他的播客的粉丝
Lex Fridman (00:29.620)
for over a decade and now, somehow, miraculously,
十多年来，现在，不知何故，奇迹般地，
Joe Rogan (00:34.680)
am humbled to be able to call him a friend.
我很荣幸能够称他为朋友。
Lex Fridman (00:38.400)
If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube,
如果您喜欢这个东西，请在 YouTube 上订阅，
Joe Rogan (00:40.780)
review it with five stars on Apple Podcast,
在 Apple Podcast 上以五颗星评价它，
Lex Fridman (00:42.940)
follow on Spotify, support on Patreon,
关注 Spotify，支持 Patreon，
Joe Rogan (00:45.000)
or connect with me on Twitter at Lex Friedman.
或者在 Twitter 上与我联系：Lex Friedman。
Lex Fridman (00:48.380)
Today's sponsors are Neuro, Eight Sleep, Dollar Shave Club,
今天的赞助商有 Neuro、Eight Sleep、Dollar Shave Club、
Lex Fridman (00:53.500)
and Olive Garden, home of the Unlimited Breadsticks
和橄榄园，无限面包棒的故乡
Lex Fridman (00:57.700)
and Brian Redband's favorite restaurant.
和布莱恩·雷德班德最喜欢的餐厅。
Joe Rogan (01:00.940)
Check out the first three of the sponsors
查看前三名赞助商
Lex Fridman (01:03.860)
in the description to get a discount
Lex Fridman (01:05.640)
and to support this podcast.
Lex Fridman (01:08.400)
I usually do full ad reads here and never ads in the middle
Lex Fridman (01:11.220)
but this time, I'll just go straight to the conversation
Lex Fridman (01:14.100)
with a bit of guitar first.
Joe Rogan (01:16.220)
["The Unlimited Breadsticks and Dollar Shave Club"]
Lex Fridman (01:54.160)
Do you ponder your mortality?
Lex Fridman (01:56.160)
Are you afraid of death?
Lex Fridman (01:57.900)
I do think about it sometimes.
Joe Rogan (01:59.520)
I mean, it does pop into my head sometimes,
Lex Fridman (02:01.820)
just the fact that, I mean, I'm 53,
Lex Fridman (02:04.980)
so if everything goes great, I have less than 50 years left.
Lex Fridman (02:10.760)
If everything goes great, like no car accidents,
Joe Rogan (02:13.960)
no injuries.
Lex Fridman (02:15.620)
But it could happen today.
Joe Rogan (02:16.880)
This could be your last day.
Lex Fridman (02:18.280)
Could be.
Joe Rogan (02:19.160)
That's kind of a stoic thing to meditate on death.
Lex Fridman (02:22.320)
There's a bunch of philosophers,
Joe Rogan (02:24.040)
Ernest Becker and Sheldon Solomon,
Lex Fridman (02:27.480)
they believe that death is at the core of everything.
Joe Rogan (02:31.520)
Wrote this book, Warm at the Core.
Lex Fridman (02:33.340)
So does that come into play in the way you see the world?
Joe Rogan (02:37.520)
I think having a sense of urgency is very beneficial
Lex Fridman (02:41.540)
and understanding that your time is limited
Joe Rogan (02:43.560)
can aid you greatly.
Lex Fridman (02:44.960)
I think knowing that this is a temporary time,
Joe Rogan (02:48.320)
that we have finite lifespans,
Lex Fridman (02:51.480)
I think there's great power in that
Joe Rogan (02:55.600)
because it motivates you, it gets you going.
Lex Fridman (02:58.640)
I think being an immortal, living forever
Joe Rogan (03:01.200)
would be one of the most depressing things,
Lex Fridman (03:02.780)
particularly if everybody else was dying around you.
Lex Fridman (03:05.160)
And I think one of the things that makes life
Lex Fridman (03:08.200)
so interesting and fascinating is that it doesn't last.
Joe Rogan (03:12.360)
You know, that you really get a brief amount of time here
Lex Fridman (03:15.480)
and really by the time you're just starting
Joe Rogan (03:17.240)
to kind of figure yourself out, who you are
Lex Fridman (03:19.960)
and how not to screw things up so bad,
Joe Rogan (03:22.400)
like, time's up.
Lex Fridman (03:23.520)
The ride's over.
Lex Fridman (03:24.680)
What about from your, like,
Lex Fridman (03:26.240)
from your daughter's perspective?
Lex Fridman (03:28.960)
Do you think about the world we're in now
Lex Fridman (03:31.960)
and what kind of world you're gonna leave them?
Joe Rogan (03:35.280)
I do.
Lex Fridman (03:36.120)
And do you worry about it?
Joe Rogan (03:36.960)
I do, yeah, I do.
Lex Fridman (03:38.600)
I do when I see these protests and riots and chaos
Lex Fridman (03:42.760)
and so much, so much anger in the world today.
Lex Fridman (03:48.440)
And then particularly today,
Joe Rogan (03:49.680)
I think because of the pandemic
Lex Fridman (03:52.280)
and the fact that so many folks are out of work
Lex Fridman (03:55.080)
and through no fault of their own
Lex Fridman (03:57.200)
and can't make ends meet
Lex Fridman (03:59.320)
and these people feel so helpless and angry,
Lex Fridman (04:02.720)
it's a particularly divisive time.
Joe Rogan (04:06.780)
It's a particularly turmoil filled time.
Lex Fridman (04:10.400)
And it just doesn't seem like the world of a year ago even.
Joe Rogan (04:14.800)
It feels very chaotic and dangerous.
Lex Fridman (04:17.640)
And it's a small thing,
Joe Rogan (04:19.200)
like in terms of the possibilities of things
Lex Fridman (04:22.080)
that could happen to the world,
Joe Rogan (04:23.160)
like a pandemic like the one we've experienced,
Lex Fridman (04:25.440)
it really just doubles the amount of deaths
Joe Rogan (04:27.640)
on a bad flu year.
Lex Fridman (04:29.040)
So it's relatively speaking is a small thing
Joe Rogan (04:31.960)
in comparison to super volcano eruptions,
Lex Fridman (04:36.200)
asteroid impact, a real horrific pandemic
Joe Rogan (04:40.520)
or one that really wipes out millions
Lex Fridman (04:44.080)
and millions of people.
Joe Rogan (04:45.980)
It's stunning how fragile civility is.
Lex Fridman (04:50.400)
It's stunning how fragile our society really is
Joe Rogan (04:55.080)
that something like this can come along,
Lex Fridman (04:57.040)
some unprecedented thing,
Joe Rogan (04:58.560)
unprecedented thing can come along
Lex Fridman (05:00.120)
and all of a sudden everybody's out of work for six months
Lex Fridman (05:02.320)
and then everybody's at each other's throats.
Lex Fridman (05:04.040)
And then politically everyone's at each other's throats.
Lex Fridman (05:06.240)
And then with the advent of social media
Lex Fridman (05:09.280)
and the images that you can see with the videos
Joe Rogan (05:13.440)
of police abuse and just racial tensions
Lex Fridman (05:17.380)
are at an all time high to a point where like,
Joe Rogan (05:19.720)
if you asked me just five or six years ago,
Lex Fridman (05:23.120)
like have racial problems in this country
Joe Rogan (05:27.200)
largely been alleviated,
Lex Fridman (05:28.680)
I'd probably say, yeah,
Joe Rogan (05:29.520)
it's way better than it's ever been before.
Lex Fridman (05:31.320)
But now you could argue that it's not.
Joe Rogan (05:32.840)
Now you could argue it's no, it's way worse
Lex Fridman (05:34.520)
in just a small amount of time.
Joe Rogan (05:36.600)
It's way worse than it's ever been during my lifetime
Lex Fridman (05:39.760)
while I'm aware of it.
Joe Rogan (05:41.680)
Obviously when I was a young boy in the 60s,
Lex Fridman (05:44.500)
they were still going through the civil rights movement,
Lex Fridman (05:46.960)
but now it just seems very fever pitched.
Lex Fridman (05:51.640)
And I think a lot of that is because of the pandemic
Lex Fridman (05:53.760)
and is because of all the heightened just tension.
Lex Fridman (05:58.640)
What I liken it to is road rage.
Joe Rogan (06:03.720)
Cause you know, people have road rage,
Lex Fridman (06:05.440)
not just because they're in the car
Lex Fridman (06:06.840)
and no one can get to them,
Lex Fridman (06:08.120)
but also because you're at a heightened state
Joe Rogan (06:10.540)
because you're driving fast
Lex Fridman (06:12.000)
and you know you're driving fast.
Joe Rogan (06:13.120)
You know, you have to make split second movements.
Lex Fridman (06:14.960)
And so anybody doing something, you're like,
Lex Fridman (06:16.600)
what the people go crazy
Lex Fridman (06:18.800)
because they're already at an eight
Joe Rogan (06:21.160)
because they're in the car and they're moving very quickly.
Lex Fridman (06:23.540)
That's what it feels like with today with the pandemic
Joe Rogan (06:26.120)
feels like everybody is already at an eight.
Lex Fridman (06:28.720)
So anything that comes along,
Joe Rogan (06:30.240)
it's like light it all on fire, you know, burn it down.
Lex Fridman (06:33.160)
Like that's part of what I think is part of the reason
Joe Rogan (06:36.760)
for a lot of the looting and the riots and all the chaos.
Lex Fridman (06:39.720)
It's not just the people that are at work,
Lex Fridman (06:41.160)
but it's also that everyone feels so tense already
Lex Fridman (06:45.840)
and everyone feels so helpless.
Lex Fridman (06:47.960)
And it's like, you know, doing something like that
Lex Fridman (06:51.440)
makes people, it just, it gives people
Joe Rogan (06:57.600)
a whole new motivation for chaos,
Lex Fridman (07:01.120)
a whole new motivation for doing destructive things
Joe Rogan (07:05.200)
that I've never experienced in my life.
Lex Fridman (07:07.400)
And your better days when you see a positive future,
Lex Fridman (07:10.700)
what do you think is the way out of this chaos of 2020?
Lex Fridman (07:15.280)
Like if you visualize a 2025,
Joe Rogan (07:18.120)
that's a better world than today.
Lex Fridman (07:19.720)
What is that?
Lex Fridman (07:20.600)
How do we get there and what does that look like?
Lex Fridman (07:22.360)
It's a good question.
Joe Rogan (07:26.000)
I can honestly say I don't know.
Lex Fridman (07:29.320)
And I wouldn't have said I don't know a year ago.
Joe Rogan (07:32.640)
A year ago, I would have said, we're gonna be okay.
Lex Fridman (07:34.840)
As much as people hate Trump, the economy is doing great.
Joe Rogan (07:38.000)
I think we're gonna be fine.
Lex Fridman (07:39.360)
That's not how I feel today.
Joe Rogan (07:41.220)
Today, I don't think there's a clear solution politically
Lex Fridman (07:45.720)
because I think if Trump wins,
Joe Rogan (07:47.240)
people are gonna be furious.
Lex Fridman (07:48.540)
And I think if Biden wins, people are gonna be furious.
Joe Rogan (07:52.240)
Particularly like if things get more woke,
Lex Fridman (07:55.800)
if people continue to enforce this force compliance
Lex Fridman (08:01.140)
and make people behave a certain way and act a certain way,
Lex Fridman (08:04.440)
which seems to be a part of what this whole woke thing is.
Joe Rogan (08:07.820)
The most disturbing for me is that I see what's going on.
Lex Fridman (08:10.920)
I see there's a lot of losers that have hopped on this
Lex Fridman (08:14.900)
and they shove it in people's faces
Lex Fridman (08:17.040)
and it doesn't have to make sense.
Joe Rogan (08:18.140)
Like there was a Black Lives Matter protest
Lex Fridman (08:20.320)
that stopped this woman at a restaurant.
Joe Rogan (08:23.360)
They were surrounding her outside a restaurant.
Lex Fridman (08:25.240)
They were forcing her to raise her fist in compliance.
Joe Rogan (08:28.480)
This is a woman who's marched for Black Lives multiple times,
Lex Fridman (08:31.800)
Black Lives Matter multiple times.
Lex Fridman (08:33.160)
And the people all around her doing this were all white.
Lex Fridman (08:36.360)
It's all weird.
Joe Rogan (08:37.180)
My friend, Coach T, he's a wrestling coach,
Lex Fridman (08:39.160)
is also on a podcast, my friend, Brian Moses.
Joe Rogan (08:42.480)
His take on it is that black, and he's a black guy.
Lex Fridman (08:45.120)
He says, Black Lives Matter is a white cult.
Lex Fridman (08:47.200)
And I'm like, when you see that picture,
Lex Fridman (08:49.920)
it's hard to argue that he's got a point.
Joe Rogan (08:52.280)
I mean, it's clearly not all about that,
Lex Fridman (08:54.240)
but there's a lot of people that have jumped on board
Joe Rogan (08:57.580)
that are very much like cult members.
Lex Fridman (09:00.760)
Because the thing about Black Lives Matter or any movement
Joe Rogan (09:04.600)
is you can't control who joins.
Lex Fridman (09:07.760)
There's no entrance examination.
Lex Fridman (09:10.520)
So you don't go, okay, how do you feel about this?
Lex Fridman (09:12.400)
What's your perceptions on that?
Joe Rogan (09:13.680)
Like the man who shot the Trump supporter in Portland,
Lex Fridman (09:18.520)
that guy who murdered the Trump supporter
Joe Rogan (09:20.240)
then the cops shot him.
Lex Fridman (09:21.580)
That guy was walking around with his hand on his gun
Joe Rogan (09:25.760)
looking for Trump supporters.
Lex Fridman (09:27.520)
Just want, I mean, he's a known violent guy
Joe Rogan (09:31.480)
who was walking around looking for Trump supporters,
Lex Fridman (09:33.480)
found one and shot one.
Joe Rogan (09:34.780)
That has nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.
Lex Fridman (09:36.880)
He's a white guy, he shot another white guy.
Joe Rogan (09:38.840)
It's just madness.
Lex Fridman (09:40.640)
And that kind of madness is,
Joe Rogan (09:43.960)
it's disturbing to see it ramp up so quickly.
Lex Fridman (09:47.440)
I mean, there's been riots in Portland every night.
Joe Rogan (09:51.360)
Oh, excuse me, demonstrations for 101 days now.
Lex Fridman (09:55.040)
101 days in a row of them lighting things on fire,
Joe Rogan (09:57.800)
breaking into federal buildings.
Lex Fridman (09:59.860)
It's like, whoever saw that coming?
Joe Rogan (10:02.500)
Nobody saw that coming.
Lex Fridman (10:03.440)
So I don't know what the solution is
Lex Fridman (10:07.340)
and I don't know what it looks like in five years.
Lex Fridman (10:09.400)
But 2025, to answer your question,
Joe Rogan (10:11.240)
like it could be anything.
Lex Fridman (10:12.880)
I mean, we could be looking at Mad Max.
Joe Rogan (10:14.760)
We could be looking at the apocalypse.
Lex Fridman (10:16.720)
We could also be looking at an invasion from another country.
Joe Rogan (10:20.480)
We could be looking at a war, like a real hot war.
Lex Fridman (10:25.000)
To put a little bit of responsibility on you,
Joe Rogan (10:27.280)
like for me, I've listened to you
Lex Fridman (10:28.840)
since the Red Band, Olive Garden days,
Joe Rogan (10:31.560)
that's the very beginning.
Lex Fridman (10:33.280)
And there was something in the way you communicated
Joe Rogan (10:36.080)
about the world, maybe there was others,
Lex Fridman (10:37.600)
but you're the one I was aware of,
Joe Rogan (10:39.560)
is you're open minded and like loving towards the world,
Lex Fridman (10:44.160)
especially as the podcast developed.
Joe Rogan (10:45.760)
Like you just demonstrated and lived
Lex Fridman (10:49.680)
this kind of just kindness,
Joe Rogan (10:51.680)
or maybe even like lack of jealousy
Lex Fridman (10:53.760)
in your own little profession of comedy.
Joe Rogan (10:55.880)
It was clear that you didn't succumb
Lex Fridman (11:00.080)
to the weaker aspects of human nature
Lex Fridman (11:02.080)
and thereby inspire like people like me,
Lex Fridman (11:04.320)
who I was naturally, probably especially in like the 20s,
Joe Rogan (11:09.240)
early 20s, kind of jealous on the success of others.
Lex Fridman (11:12.520)
And you're really the primary person that taught me
Joe Rogan (11:15.800)
to truly celebrate the success of others.
Lex Fridman (11:19.920)
And so by way of question, you kind of have a role in this
Joe Rogan (11:25.080)
of making a better 2025.
Lex Fridman (11:26.680)
You have such a big megaphone.
Joe Rogan (11:27.840)
Is there something you think you can do on this podcast
Lex Fridman (11:31.840)
with the words, the way you talk,
Lex Fridman (11:35.000)
the things you discuss that could create a better 2025?
Lex Fridman (11:39.560)
I think if anything, I could help in leading by example,
Lex Fridman (11:44.480)
but that's only gonna help the people that are listening.
Lex Fridman (11:50.080)
I don't know what else I can do
Joe Rogan (11:52.360)
in terms of like make the world a better place,
Lex Fridman (11:54.200)
other than express my hopes and wishes for that
Lex Fridman (11:59.200)
and just try to be as nice as I can to people
Lex Fridman (12:02.520)
as often as I can.
Lex Fridman (12:04.240)
But I also think that I've fallen into this weird category,
Lex Fridman (12:07.080)
particularly with the Spotify deal,
Joe Rogan (12:09.760)
where I'm one of them now.
Lex Fridman (12:12.960)
I'm not a regular person anymore.
Joe Rogan (12:15.000)
Now I'm like some famous rich guy.
Lex Fridman (12:18.640)
So you go from being a regular person
Joe Rogan (12:20.320)
to a famous rich guy that's out of touch.
Lex Fridman (12:23.040)
And that's a real issue whenever you're talking
Joe Rogan (12:26.920)
about the economy, about just real life problems.
Lex Fridman (12:30.960)
It's interesting.
Joe Rogan (12:32.040)
It kind of hurts my heart to hear people say
Lex Fridman (12:33.800)
about Elon Musk, he's just a billionaire.
Joe Rogan (12:36.480)
It's an interesting statement.
Lex Fridman (12:38.480)
But I think if you just continue being you
Lex Fridman (12:41.160)
and he continue being him,
Lex Fridman (12:45.400)
I think people are just voicing their worry
Joe Rogan (12:48.040)
that you become some rich guy.
Lex Fridman (12:49.640)
I don't even know if they're doing that.
Joe Rogan (12:51.680)
I think they're just finding,
Lex Fridman (12:53.760)
the way he describes it, an attack vector.
Joe Rogan (12:55.880)
Yeah, and I think he's right.
Lex Fridman (12:58.280)
I think they can dismiss you by just saying,
Joe Rogan (13:01.640)
oh, you're just a that.
Lex Fridman (13:03.920)
You're easily definable.
Joe Rogan (13:08.840)
Right, but there's truth to that.
Lex Fridman (13:11.080)
If you're not careful, you can become out of touch.
Lex Fridman (13:14.040)
But that's an interesting thing.
Lex Fridman (13:17.280)
Why haven't you become out of touch?
Joe Rogan (13:19.440)
As a human off the podcast, you don't act like a,
Lex Fridman (13:24.040)
like you talk to somebody like me.
Joe Rogan (13:26.560)
You don't talk like a famous person
Lex Fridman (13:28.800)
or you don't act rich, like you're better than others.
Joe Rogan (13:33.680)
There's a certain, listen, I've talked to quite a few,
Lex Fridman (13:37.280)
you have too, but I've talked to a special kind of group
Joe Rogan (13:40.240)
of people that are like Nobel Prize winners, let's say.
Lex Fridman (13:42.960)
They sometimes have an air to them that's of arrogance.
Lex Fridman (13:47.480)
And you don't, what's that about?
Lex Fridman (13:49.360)
Well, you gotta know what that is, right?
Joe Rogan (13:51.840)
Like that air of arrogance comes from
Lex Fridman (13:55.320)
drinking your own Koolaid.
Joe Rogan (13:57.640)
You start believing that somehow or another,
Lex Fridman (14:00.280)
just because you're getting praise from all these people,
Joe Rogan (14:02.040)
that you really are something different.
Lex Fridman (14:04.520)
Usually it exemplifies, there's something there
Joe Rogan (14:08.760)
where there's a lack of struggle.
Lex Fridman (14:11.600)
And I think a struggle is
Joe Rogan (14:14.800)
probably one of the most important balancing tools
Lex Fridman (14:22.320)
that a person can have.
Lex Fridman (14:24.000)
And for me, I struggle mentally and I struggle physically.
Lex Fridman (14:29.280)
I struggle mentally in that, like we were talking about
Joe Rogan (14:31.920)
on the podcast we did previously,
Lex Fridman (14:34.320)
you and I on my podcast said, I'm not a fan of my work.
Joe Rogan (14:37.800)
I'm not a fan of what I do.
Lex Fridman (14:38.920)
I'm my harshest critic.
Lex Fridman (14:41.000)
So anytime anybody says something bad about me,
Lex Fridman (14:43.480)
I'm like, listen, I said way worse about myself.
Joe Rogan (14:46.960)
I don't like anything I do.
Lex Fridman (14:50.040)
I'm ruthlessly introspective.
Lex Fridman (14:53.040)
And I will continue to be that way.
Lex Fridman (14:54.880)
Cause that's the only way you could be good as a comedian.
Joe Rogan (14:57.080)
There's no other way.
Lex Fridman (14:57.920)
You can't just think you're awesome and just go out there.
Joe Rogan (14:59.920)
You have to be like picking apart everything you do.
Lex Fridman (15:03.040)
But there's a balance to that too,
Joe Rogan (15:04.240)
cause you have to have enough confidence
Lex Fridman (15:05.440)
to go out there and perform.
Joe Rogan (15:06.800)
You can't think, oh my God, I suck.
Lex Fridman (15:08.280)
I know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm doing
Joe Rogan (15:10.320)
because I put in all that work.
Lex Fridman (15:11.600)
And one of the reasons why I put in all that work
Joe Rogan (15:13.360)
is I don't like the end result most of the time.
Lex Fridman (15:17.520)
So I need to work at it all the time.
Lex Fridman (15:19.640)
And then there's physical struggle,
Lex Fridman (15:21.320)
which I think balances everything out.
Joe Rogan (15:23.960)
Without physical struggle, I always make the analogy
Lex Fridman (15:27.680)
that the body is in a lot of ways like a battery,
Joe Rogan (15:30.720)
where if you have extra charge,
Lex Fridman (15:33.240)
it's like it leaks out of the top
Lex Fridman (15:35.000)
and it becomes unmanageable and messy.
Lex Fridman (15:37.600)
And that's how my psyche is.
Joe Rogan (15:39.240)
If I have too much energy,
Lex Fridman (15:41.560)
if I'm not exerting myself in a violent way,
Joe Rogan (15:46.440)
like an explosive way, like wearing myself out,
Lex Fridman (15:49.960)
I just don't like the way the world is.
Joe Rogan (15:52.760)
I don't like the way I interface with the world.
Lex Fridman (15:54.640)
I'm too tense.
Joe Rogan (15:56.000)
I'm too quick to be upset about things.
Lex Fridman (16:00.440)
But when I work out hard
Lex Fridman (16:03.040)
and I put in a brutal training session, everything's fine.
Lex Fridman (16:07.160)
Well, the first time I talked to you, Jerry, you were doing
Joe Rogan (16:13.800)
Sober October.
Lex Fridman (16:15.800)
And there's something in your eyes,
Joe Rogan (16:18.640)
like I think you've talked about
Lex Fridman (16:19.960)
that you exercise the demons out essentially.
Lex Fridman (16:22.920)
So you exercise to get whatever the parts of you
Lex Fridman (16:26.000)
that you don't like out.
Joe Rogan (16:27.840)
There's a darkness in you there,
Lex Fridman (16:30.680)
like the competitiveness and the focus of that person.
Joe Rogan (16:34.640)
That was a scary time in a lot of ways,
Lex Fridman (16:36.440)
that Sober October thing.
Lex Fridman (16:38.040)
Because my friends, we were all talking shit, right?
Lex Fridman (16:41.440)
Because we're competing against each other
Joe Rogan (16:43.360)
in these fitness challenges.
Lex Fridman (16:44.600)
And you had one point,
Joe Rogan (16:48.480)
like you got a certain amount of points
Lex Fridman (16:50.280)
for each minute that you went at 80% of your max heart rate.
Lex Fridman (16:54.520)
And one day I got 1100 points.
Lex Fridman (16:57.520)
So I did seven hours on an elliptical machine
Joe Rogan (17:00.520)
watching the bathhouse scene from John Wick
Lex Fridman (17:03.600)
where he murders all those people in the bathhouse.
Joe Rogan (17:05.040)
I watched it probably 50 times in a row.
Lex Fridman (17:07.160)
I went crazy.
Joe Rogan (17:08.400)
I went crazy, but I went crazy in a weird way
Lex Fridman (17:11.280)
where it brought me back to my fighting days.
Joe Rogan (17:16.080)
It was like the same, that person came out again.
Lex Fridman (17:18.240)
It was like, well, I didn't even know he was in there.
Joe Rogan (17:20.280)
It's like they're like an assassin, like a killer.
Lex Fridman (17:25.920)
Like I felt like a different person.
Lex Fridman (17:30.920)
Is it echoes of like what Mike Tyson talked about essentially?
Lex Fridman (17:34.600)
Like the...
Joe Rogan (17:35.440)
Maybe, but no orgasm in the oceans.
Lex Fridman (17:37.800)
All the crazy shit that he was saying.
Lex Fridman (17:41.040)
Is there a violent person in there?
Lex Fridman (17:44.000)
Oh yeah.
Joe Rogan (17:44.840)
Yeah, there's a lot of violence in me for sure.
Lex Fridman (17:47.800)
I don't know if it's genetic or learned
Joe Rogan (17:49.600)
or it's because during my formative years
Lex Fridman (17:52.240)
from the time I was 15 till I was 22, all I did was fight.
Joe Rogan (17:56.720)
That was all I did.
Lex Fridman (17:58.160)
That was all I did.
Joe Rogan (17:59.080)
All I did was train and compete.
Lex Fridman (18:01.040)
That's all I did.
Joe Rogan (18:01.880)
That was my whole life.
Lex Fridman (18:03.040)
Is it connected to...
Lex Fridman (18:04.760)
So your mom and dad broke up early on.
Lex Fridman (18:07.720)
Is it connected to the dad at all?
Joe Rogan (18:10.360)
I'm sure it's connected to him also because he was violent
Lex Fridman (18:13.840)
and it made me feel very scared to be around him.
Lex Fridman (18:16.320)
But I also think it's connected in who he was as a human
Lex Fridman (18:20.880)
is transferred into my DNA.
Joe Rogan (18:23.560)
I think there's a certain amount of...
Lex Fridman (18:25.880)
I mean, to be prejudiced against myself,
Joe Rogan (18:30.400)
I look like a violent person.
Lex Fridman (18:32.720)
If I didn't know me, even the way I'm built,
Joe Rogan (18:35.520)
not even just the working out part,
Lex Fridman (18:36.800)
just the size of my hands
Lex Fridman (18:38.320)
and there's the width of my shoulders.
Lex Fridman (18:41.360)
There's most likely a lot of violence in my history,
Joe Rogan (18:44.920)
in my past, in my ancestry.
Lex Fridman (18:47.240)
And I think we minimize that with people.
Lex Fridman (18:52.240)
So much of your behavior, when I see my daughter,
Lex Fridman (18:55.880)
I have one daughter that's obsessive
Joe Rogan (18:58.360)
in terms of she wants to get really good at things
Lex Fridman (19:01.240)
and she'll practice things all day long.
Lex Fridman (19:03.280)
And it's 100% my personality.
Lex Fridman (19:06.960)
She's me in female form.
Lex Fridman (19:09.840)
But without the anger as much and without the fear,
Lex Fridman (19:14.000)
she has loving household and everything like that.
Lex Fridman (19:16.560)
But she has this intense obsession with doing things
Lex Fridman (19:21.280)
and doing things really well and getting better.
Lex Fridman (19:23.400)
What's the point?
Lex Fridman (19:24.240)
We have to tell her, stop doing hand springs in the house.
Joe Rogan (19:26.600)
Stop, stop, come on, just sit down, have dinner.
Lex Fridman (19:29.240)
Like one more, one more.
Joe Rogan (19:30.240)
Like she's just like, she's psycho.
Lex Fridman (19:34.120)
And I think there's a lot of behavior and personality
Lex Fridman (19:42.480)
and a lot of these things are passed down through genetics.
Lex Fridman (19:45.720)
We don't really know, right?
Joe Rogan (19:47.480)
We don't know how much of who you are genetically
Lex Fridman (19:51.800)
is learned behavior, nature or nurture.
Joe Rogan (19:54.520)
We don't know if it's learned behavior
Lex Fridman (19:57.080)
or whether or not it's something
Joe Rogan (19:58.200)
that's intrinsically a part of you
Lex Fridman (19:59.720)
because of who your parents were.
Lex Fridman (1:00:01.440)
And it sticks to your gut.
Lex Fridman (1:00:03.440)
No, he doesn't.
Joe Rogan (1:00:04.280)
His are like two and a half hours long now.
Lex Fridman (1:00:06.520)
That's great.
Joe Rogan (1:00:07.680)
You won, but you wouldn't like say,
Lex Fridman (1:00:10.080)
I mentioned to you this before, and this is gonna happen.
Joe Rogan (1:00:12.800)
It's actually made a lot of progress towards it.
Lex Fridman (1:00:14.440)
I'm gonna talk to Putin,
Lex Fridman (1:00:16.280)
but you wouldn't travel to Putin if you wanted to talk to you.
Lex Fridman (1:00:19.040)
Putin is a dangerous character.
Joe Rogan (1:00:21.120)
He's not.
Lex Fridman (1:00:22.640)
He's not.
Joe Rogan (1:00:23.480)
Have you ever seen the thing with Jerry Kraft
Lex Fridman (1:00:26.440)
where they stole his Super Bowl ring?
Joe Rogan (1:00:27.880)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:00:28.880)
Yeah.
Joe Rogan (1:00:29.720)
I think that was a little bit of misunderstanding.
Lex Fridman (1:00:31.640)
Oh, really?
Joe Rogan (1:00:33.000)
I think it's a little bit.
Lex Fridman (1:00:33.840)
He just decided he's gonna steal that Super Bowl ring.
Joe Rogan (1:00:35.960)
Kind of.
Lex Fridman (1:00:36.800)
I think it was a...
Joe Rogan (1:00:37.640)
Kind of.
Lex Fridman (1:00:38.480)
Can I see your ring?
Joe Rogan (1:00:39.760)
He shows him his ring and then he puts it on
Lex Fridman (1:00:41.320)
and says, I can murder somebody with this ring.
Lex Fridman (1:00:43.160)
So he...
Lex Fridman (1:00:44.000)
And then he walks off with it.
Joe Rogan (1:00:44.840)
It's possible he did it as a,
Lex Fridman (1:00:46.920)
he's a big believer in displays of power.
Joe Rogan (1:00:50.360)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:00:51.200)
So like, it's possible he did that,
Lex Fridman (1:00:52.720)
but I think he sees himself as like a tool
Lex Fridman (1:00:57.920)
with which to demonstrate that Russia still belongs
Joe Rogan (1:01:01.000)
on the stage of the big players.
Lex Fridman (1:01:03.600)
And so he, a lot of actions are selected through that lens.
Lex Fridman (1:01:07.800)
But in terms of a human being,
Lex Fridman (1:01:11.200)
outside of any of the evils that he may or may not have done,
Joe Rogan (1:01:16.040)
he is a really thoughtful, intelligent, fun human being.
Lex Fridman (1:01:21.480)
Like the wit and the depth from the JRE perspective
Joe Rogan (1:01:26.760)
is really interesting.
Lex Fridman (1:01:27.600)
I'm like his manager now, selling the, he's a judo guy.
Joe Rogan (1:01:30.880)
Trying to get Trump, he's really good at judo.
Lex Fridman (1:01:33.240)
I have seen him practice judo.
Joe Rogan (1:01:34.960)
He's a legit black belt.
Lex Fridman (1:01:36.320)
And not only that, he loves it, not just skill wise,
Lex Fridman (1:01:40.360)
but to talk about it, to reason about it,
Lex Fridman (1:01:42.160)
to think about it, to MMA as well.
Joe Rogan (1:01:44.520)
So, you know, it'd be a good conversation,
Lex Fridman (1:01:47.600)
but you wouldn't travel to him.
Joe Rogan (1:01:52.400)
Well, that's, hold to your principle.
Lex Fridman (1:01:53.800)
So that's the core of the advice.
Joe Rogan (1:01:55.040)
Just hold to whatever.
Lex Fridman (1:01:56.280)
I would rather, here's the thing.
Joe Rogan (1:01:59.960)
There's not a person that I have to have on the show.
Lex Fridman (1:02:03.360)
Right.
Lex Fridman (1:02:04.200)
And I'm happy to talk to anybody.
Lex Fridman (1:02:06.320)
I'm just as happy to talk to you as I am to talk to Trump,
Joe Rogan (1:02:10.000)
as I am to, probably more happy to talk to you,
Lex Fridman (1:02:12.080)
as I am to talk to Mike Tyson, as I am to talk to Joey Diaz.
Joe Rogan (1:02:15.480)
I like talking to people.
Lex Fridman (1:02:17.120)
I enjoy doing podcasts.
Joe Rogan (1:02:19.120)
I enjoy talking to a variety of people
Lex Fridman (1:02:21.560)
and I schedule them based on, I want to like,
Joe Rogan (1:02:25.200)
I try not to get too many right wing people in a row
Lex Fridman (1:02:27.920)
or too many progressive people in a row.
Joe Rogan (1:02:29.520)
I don't want to get repetitive.
Lex Fridman (1:02:31.040)
I try not to get too many fighters in a row.
Joe Rogan (1:02:33.280)
I try to balance it out.
Lex Fridman (1:02:34.320)
Not too many comedians.
Joe Rogan (1:02:35.480)
Comedians are the one group where I can have three,
Lex Fridman (1:02:39.160)
four in a row, five in a row.
Joe Rogan (1:02:40.440)
Cause that's my tribe.
Lex Fridman (1:02:42.160)
You know, those are my people.
Joe Rogan (1:02:43.360)
It's easy.
Lex Fridman (1:02:44.200)
We can talk about anything.
Joe Rogan (1:02:45.800)
It's a weird dance.
Lex Fridman (1:02:46.960)
You know, the conversations that you're doing on a podcast
Joe Rogan (1:02:50.040)
are, they're a strange dance.
Lex Fridman (1:02:52.960)
And you want to, you know,
Joe Rogan (1:02:55.160)
you want to not step on your own feet
Lex Fridman (1:02:56.920)
and you want to make sure that you do it in a way,
Joe Rogan (1:03:00.720)
do the podcast in a way that's entertaining for people.
Lex Fridman (1:03:02.880)
And it's conversations are learning how to talk to people.
Joe Rogan (1:03:07.280)
It's a weird skill.
Lex Fridman (1:03:09.040)
It's a weird skill that took a long time
Joe Rogan (1:03:10.720)
for me to get good at.
Lex Fridman (1:03:11.800)
And I didn't know it was a skill until I started doing it.
Lex Fridman (1:03:14.480)
And then I just thought you were just talking.
Lex Fridman (1:03:16.800)
Like, I know how to talk.
Joe Rogan (1:03:18.000)
We'll just talk to people.
Lex Fridman (1:03:19.040)
And then along the way I realized like, oh,
Lex Fridman (1:03:20.880)
and then when you talk to people that are bad at it,
Lex Fridman (1:03:23.120)
you realize that it's a skill.
Joe Rogan (1:03:24.960)
Like particularly one of the things about my people,
Lex Fridman (1:03:28.840)
about comedians is a lot of them tend to want to talk,
Lex Fridman (1:03:32.560)
but don't want to listen.
Lex Fridman (1:03:34.000)
Right.
Lex Fridman (1:03:35.040)
So they're waiting for you to stop talking so they can talk,
Lex Fridman (1:03:39.480)
but they're not necessarily thinking
Lex Fridman (1:03:41.440)
about what you're saying, you know?
Lex Fridman (1:03:43.520)
And they're just waiting for their opportunity
Joe Rogan (1:03:45.800)
or they talk over you or they,
Lex Fridman (1:03:47.640)
and I try real hard not to do that and sometimes I fail,
Lex Fridman (1:03:50.160)
but when I'm at my best, I'm dancing.
Lex Fridman (1:03:55.000)
Yeah, ultimately the skill conversation
Joe Rogan (1:03:56.760)
is just really listening, like really,
Lex Fridman (1:04:00.440)
and listening and thinking.
Joe Rogan (1:04:01.960)
Listening and thinking and being genuinely curious
Lex Fridman (1:04:05.280)
and really having a take on what they're saying
Lex Fridman (1:04:10.520)
and maybe a followup question or maybe,
Lex Fridman (1:04:15.040)
it's gotta be real, it's gotta be authentic.
Lex Fridman (1:04:17.120)
And when it is authentic and it's real,
Lex Fridman (1:04:19.160)
it resonates with people.
Joe Rogan (1:04:20.640)
Like they're listening and they go,
Lex Fridman (1:04:21.840)
oh, like I'm locked in with the way you're thinking.
Joe Rogan (1:04:25.360)
Like you two guys are in a conversation and I'm locked in.
Lex Fridman (1:04:29.240)
When she talks and you listen, I'm listening too.
Joe Rogan (1:04:32.840)
When he says something to her
Lex Fridman (1:04:34.400)
or when she says something to him,
Joe Rogan (1:04:36.560)
like there's a thing that happens during conversations
Lex Fridman (1:04:39.080)
where you're there, like you're listening to,
Lex Fridman (1:04:42.360)
and it's with me, when I listen to a good podcast,
Lex Fridman (1:04:45.600)
I feel like I'm in the room.
Joe Rogan (1:04:47.080)
I feel like I'm in the room and I'm like the friend
Lex Fridman (1:04:50.000)
that got to sit down and listen.
Joe Rogan (1:04:51.600)
Like, oh, yeah, that's a great conversation.
Lex Fridman (1:04:55.120)
I love conversations.
Lex Fridman (1:04:56.320)
So I love listening to them
Lex Fridman (1:04:58.200)
and I love putting them together.
Lex Fridman (1:04:59.680)
And the fact that this podcast has gotten so fucking big,
Lex Fridman (1:05:04.360)
it's stunning to me, it blows me away.
Joe Rogan (1:05:07.520)
I never anticipated it.
Lex Fridman (1:05:09.320)
Never thought for a second that that stupid thing
Joe Rogan (1:05:11.920)
that I used to do in my couch, in my office
Lex Fridman (1:05:15.080)
was the biggest thing I've ever done in my life by far.
Joe Rogan (1:05:18.520)
Like people used to make fun of it.
Lex Fridman (1:05:20.320)
Like there's a comedy store documentary that's coming out
Lex Fridman (1:05:22.760)
and one of the parts of the documentary is my friend,
Lex Fridman (1:05:25.080)
Tom Segura, when he first started doing my podcast,
Joe Rogan (1:05:28.120)
he would be leaving and he would talk to Redband.
Lex Fridman (1:05:30.520)
He's like, what the fuck is he doing?
Lex Fridman (1:05:32.280)
Like, why is he doing this?
Lex Fridman (1:05:33.440)
Like who's listening?
Joe Rogan (1:05:34.280)
He's like, oh, some people like it.
Lex Fridman (1:05:36.320)
And he's like, fucking nonsense, waste of time.
Lex Fridman (1:05:38.960)
And like in the documentary, it shows like 2000 views,
Lex Fridman (1:05:43.120)
like one of the early Ustream episodes.
Joe Rogan (1:05:45.160)
It's hilarious.
Lex Fridman (1:05:46.000)
And they don't just like it,
Joe Rogan (1:05:47.280)
really they form a friendship with you.
Lex Fridman (1:05:50.400)
It's like, even me when people come up to me,
Joe Rogan (1:05:53.840)
like the love in their eyes is kind of beautiful.
Lex Fridman (1:05:56.720)
It's weird, right?
Joe Rogan (1:05:57.560)
Yeah, it's like.
Lex Fridman (1:05:58.400)
You're a part of their life.
Joe Rogan (1:05:59.320)
Yeah, and I don't know, it's also heartbreaking
Lex Fridman (1:06:02.560)
because you realize you'll never really get to know them
Joe Rogan (1:06:05.960)
back like, because they clearly are friends with you.
Lex Fridman (1:06:09.860)
Yes, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:06:11.240)
And it's sad to see a person who's clearly brilliant
Lex Fridman (1:06:13.880)
and interesting and is friends with you,
Lex Fridman (1:06:17.240)
but you don't get a chance to return that love.
Lex Fridman (1:06:20.160)
And I mean.
Joe Rogan (1:06:21.240)
My kids, it took them a while to figure out
Lex Fridman (1:06:23.680)
what's going on, but people would come up to me
Lex Fridman (1:06:27.040)
and they would say something like,
Lex Fridman (1:06:29.640)
hey man, I fucking love you, thanks man.
Joe Rogan (1:06:31.920)
All right, hey brother, nice to meet you.
Lex Fridman (1:06:34.020)
My daughter was like six.
Lex Fridman (1:06:35.000)
She'd be like, do you know him?
Lex Fridman (1:06:36.480)
I'm like, no, I don't know him.
Lex Fridman (1:06:37.760)
She's like, how does he know you?
Lex Fridman (1:06:39.520)
Like, it's a very weird conversation I used to have
Joe Rogan (1:06:44.700)
with young kids when I'd explain,
Lex Fridman (1:06:47.380)
I'd do this thing called the podcast
Lex Fridman (1:06:48.960)
and millions of people listen.
Lex Fridman (1:06:50.640)
So now one of my daughters is 12
Lex Fridman (1:06:53.620)
and one of her friends is 13 and he's a boy
Lex Fridman (1:06:56.560)
and he goes to school with her and he's obsessed with me.
Lex Fridman (1:06:59.000)
And so she's weirded out.
Lex Fridman (1:07:00.520)
And she says to him, I don't even think you like me.
Joe Rogan (1:07:02.320)
I think you're just into my dad, you fucking weirdo.
Lex Fridman (1:07:04.880)
She's going to have that conversation
Joe Rogan (1:07:07.600)
in a few stages in her life.
Lex Fridman (1:07:09.440)
Like that hard conversation with a boyfriend.
Joe Rogan (1:07:12.040)
Yeah, probably, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:07:13.760)
That was the thing about men too.
Joe Rogan (1:07:16.080)
This podcast is, my podcast is uniquely masculine.
Lex Fridman (1:07:22.360)
I'm a man and I'm not, I'm also a man
Joe Rogan (1:07:26.360)
that doesn't have to go through some sort
Lex Fridman (1:07:27.880)
of a corporate filter.
Joe Rogan (1:07:29.320)
I'm not going through executive producers
Lex Fridman (1:07:31.880)
who tell me, don't have this guest on,
Joe Rogan (1:07:34.240)
don't talk about that.
Lex Fridman (1:07:36.000)
We looked at focus groups and they don't seem to like
Joe Rogan (1:07:38.460)
when you do this, like there's none of that.
Lex Fridman (1:07:40.960)
And I just do it.
Lex Fridman (1:07:43.280)
So I have a whole podcast where I just talk about cars
Lex Fridman (1:07:46.920)
and people are like, I don't want to hear you
Joe Rogan (1:07:48.000)
talk about cars.
Lex Fridman (1:07:48.840)
Well, good, congratulations.
Joe Rogan (1:07:50.960)
You found what you like.
Lex Fridman (1:07:51.980)
Here's good news, there's 1500 other ones.
Joe Rogan (1:07:54.680)
Go listen to the other episodes
Lex Fridman (1:07:55.800)
where I don't talk about cars.
Joe Rogan (1:07:57.720)
You don't have to listen.
Lex Fridman (1:07:59.880)
And it's not like your brand, you just are who you are
Lex Fridman (1:08:02.960)
and that's what you do.
Lex Fridman (1:08:04.080)
But it's like, it's authentically what I'm interested in.
Joe Rogan (1:08:08.600)
All the podcasts, whether I'm talking to David Fravor
Lex Fridman (1:08:11.480)
about his experience with UFOs,
Joe Rogan (1:08:13.400)
whether I'm talking to David Sinclair about life extension,
Lex Fridman (1:08:17.800)
whether I'm talking to you about artificial intelligence
Joe Rogan (1:08:20.320)
or what, it's because I want to talk to these people.
Lex Fridman (1:08:23.580)
And that resonates.
Joe Rogan (1:08:25.720)
I like when people are into shit.
Lex Fridman (1:08:28.600)
I've talked about this before,
Joe Rogan (1:08:29.760)
things that I have no interest in making furniture,
Lex Fridman (1:08:32.280)
but I like this PBS show where this guy
Joe Rogan (1:08:34.100)
makes furniture by hand.
Lex Fridman (1:08:35.800)
I love watching it.
Joe Rogan (1:08:36.640)
Because he's so into it.
Lex Fridman (1:08:38.160)
He's sanding this and polishing that.
Joe Rogan (1:08:39.960)
I'm not going to do that.
Lex Fridman (1:08:40.920)
I don't give a fuck about furniture.
Joe Rogan (1:08:42.720)
Furniture for me is function, like this desk.
Lex Fridman (1:08:45.360)
Function works, but I love when people are into it.
Joe Rogan (1:08:48.920)
I'm happy that someone can make it and they do a great job,
Lex Fridman (1:08:51.720)
but I'm not interested in the task
Joe Rogan (1:08:56.680)
or even the finished product
Lex Fridman (1:08:59.040)
as much as I'm interested in someone's passion
Joe Rogan (1:09:01.360)
for something.
Lex Fridman (1:09:02.200)
The passion that they've put into this, that shines through.
Joe Rogan (1:09:05.260)
Last question.
Lex Fridman (1:09:07.480)
I sometimes ask this just for to, what is it?
Joe Rogan (1:09:11.720)
To challenge, to make people roll their eyes,
Lex Fridman (1:09:15.280)
to make legitimate scientists roll their eyes.
Lex Fridman (1:09:17.400)
Ask, what is the meaning of life, according to Joe Rogan?
Lex Fridman (1:09:22.400)
I do not think there is a meaning.
Joe Rogan (1:09:24.440)
I think there's many, many meanings of life.
Lex Fridman (1:09:26.880)
I think there's a way to navigate life that's enjoyable.
Joe Rogan (1:09:30.040)
I think it requires many things.
Lex Fridman (1:09:32.320)
It requires, first of all, it requires love.
Joe Rogan (1:09:35.020)
You have to have loved ones.
Lex Fridman (1:09:36.420)
You have to have family.
Joe Rogan (1:09:37.720)
You have to have friends.
Lex Fridman (1:09:38.960)
You have to have people that care about you
Lex Fridman (1:09:40.720)
and you have to care about them.
Lex Fridman (1:09:42.260)
I think that is primary.
Joe Rogan (1:09:44.600)
Then it also requires interests.
Lex Fridman (1:09:47.800)
There has to be things that stimulate you.
Joe Rogan (1:09:50.040)
Now, it could be just a subsistence lifestyle.
Lex Fridman (1:09:52.720)
There's many people that believe and practice
Joe Rogan (1:09:56.240)
this lifestyle of just living off the land
Lex Fridman (1:09:59.240)
and hunting and fishing and living in the woods
Lex Fridman (1:10:01.320)
and they seem incredibly happy.
Lex Fridman (1:10:03.400)
And there's something to be said for that.
Lex Fridman (1:10:05.680)
That is an interest, right?
Lex Fridman (1:10:07.240)
There's something and there's a direct connection
Joe Rogan (1:10:10.160)
between their actions and their sustenance.
Lex Fridman (1:10:12.720)
They get their food that way.
Joe Rogan (1:10:14.400)
They're connected to nature
Lex Fridman (1:10:15.600)
and it's very satisfying for them.
Joe Rogan (1:10:18.080)
If you don't have that, I think you need something
Lex Fridman (1:10:21.800)
that is interesting to you,
Joe Rogan (1:10:24.040)
something that you're passionate about.
Lex Fridman (1:10:26.480)
And there's far too many people that get sucked
Joe Rogan (1:10:28.640)
into living a life where you're just doing a job,
Lex Fridman (1:10:33.280)
you're just showing up and putting in your time
Lex Fridman (1:10:35.100)
and then going home, but you don't have a passion
Lex Fridman (1:10:37.120)
for what you're doing.
Lex Fridman (1:10:37.960)
And I think that's the recipe for a boring
Lex Fridman (1:10:42.100)
and very unfulfilling life.
Joe Rogan (1:10:43.640)
You mentioned love, if we could just backtrack.
Lex Fridman (1:10:46.240)
What, we talked about the demons
Lex Fridman (1:10:49.440)
and the violence in there somewhere.
Lex Fridman (1:10:51.680)
What's the role of love in this, in your own life?
Joe Rogan (1:10:55.520)
It's very important, man.
Lex Fridman (1:10:57.240)
And that's one of the reasons why I'm so,
Joe Rogan (1:11:01.800)
I'm so interested in helping people.
Lex Fridman (1:11:04.140)
I'm very interested in people feeling good.
Joe Rogan (1:11:07.600)
I like them to feel good.
Lex Fridman (1:11:09.360)
I want to help them.
Joe Rogan (1:11:10.500)
I like doing things that make them feel like,
Lex Fridman (1:11:12.440)
oh, you care about me, like, yeah, I care about you.
Joe Rogan (1:11:14.760)
I really do.
Lex Fridman (1:11:15.640)
Like, I want people to feel good.
Joe Rogan (1:11:17.140)
I want my family to feel good.
Lex Fridman (1:11:19.040)
I want my friends to feel good.
Joe Rogan (1:11:20.280)
I want guests to feel good about the podcast experience.
Lex Fridman (1:11:23.980)
You know, I am, I'm a big believer in as much as I can
Joe Rogan (1:11:28.100)
to spread positive energy and joy and happiness
Lex Fridman (1:11:32.320)
and relay all the good advice that I've ever gotten.
Joe Rogan (1:11:35.700)
All the things that I've learned
Lex Fridman (1:11:37.660)
and if they can benefit people,
Joe Rogan (1:11:38.860)
then I find that those things benefit people
Lex Fridman (1:11:41.080)
that actually improve the quality of their life
Joe Rogan (1:11:43.080)
or improve their success or improve their relationships.
Lex Fridman (1:11:46.880)
I'm very happy to do that.
Joe Rogan (1:11:48.480)
That means a lot to me.
Lex Fridman (1:11:49.840)
The way we interact with each other is so important.
Joe Rogan (1:11:53.960)
It's one of the reasons why, like,
Lex Fridman (1:11:55.840)
if someone gets canceled or you get publicly shamed,
Joe Rogan (1:11:58.920)
it's so devastating because there's all these people
Lex Fridman (1:12:01.040)
that are negative, all this negative energy coming your way
Lex Fridman (1:12:04.520)
and you feel it.
Lex Fridman (1:12:05.340)
As much as I like to pretend that you're immune
Joe Rogan (1:12:07.620)
to that kind of stuff
Lex Fridman (1:12:08.460)
and some people do like to pretend that, you feel it.
Joe Rogan (1:12:10.960)
There's a tangible force when people are upset at you.
Lex Fridman (1:12:14.520)
And that's the same with loved ones or family
Joe Rogan (1:12:17.840)
or anytime someone's upset at you,
Lex Fridman (1:12:20.080)
whether it's a giant group of people
Joe Rogan (1:12:22.220)
or there's a small amount of people.
Lex Fridman (1:12:23.920)
That has an impact on you and your psyche
Lex Fridman (1:12:27.000)
and your physical being.
Lex Fridman (1:12:28.880)
So the more you can spread love
Lex Fridman (1:12:31.840)
and the more love comes back to you,
Lex Fridman (1:12:34.160)
you also create this butterfly effect, right?
Joe Rogan (1:12:36.800)
Where other people start recognizing like,
Lex Fridman (1:12:39.200)
oh, you know, when he is nice to me, I feel better
Lex Fridman (1:12:42.280)
and then I'm gonna be nicer to people.
Lex Fridman (1:12:43.960)
And when I'm nicer to people, they feel better
Lex Fridman (1:12:45.840)
and I feel better and it spreads outward.
Lex Fridman (1:12:48.240)
And that's one thing that I've done through this podcast,
Joe Rogan (1:12:50.160)
I think, is I've imparted my personal philosophy
Lex Fridman (1:12:54.200)
in kindness and generosity to other people.
Joe Rogan (1:12:57.280)
Yeah, I mean, to correct you, you didn't do it.
Lex Fridman (1:13:00.200)
The ideas that are breeding themselves through your brain
Joe Rogan (1:13:02.440)
have figured out.
Lex Fridman (1:13:03.280)
Yes, the ideas that are alive in the air
Joe Rogan (1:13:05.640)
that made their way into my head.
Lex Fridman (1:13:07.200)
Love is a more efficient mechanism of spreading ideas.
Joe Rogan (1:13:09.920)
They figured out.
Lex Fridman (1:13:10.960)
Yes, probably, man.
Joe Rogan (1:13:14.840)
Probably.
Lex Fridman (1:13:16.120)
So as far as like the meaning of life,
Joe Rogan (1:13:21.000)
that's a bit, without that, you have nothing.
Lex Fridman (1:13:23.800)
You know, one of the biggest failures in life
Joe Rogan (1:13:26.000)
is to be extremely successful financially,
Lex Fridman (1:13:27.880)
but everybody hates you.
Joe Rogan (1:13:29.240)
Everybody hates you and you're just miserable
Lex Fridman (1:13:30.980)
and alone and angry and depressed and sad.
Joe Rogan (1:13:33.800)
You know, when you hear about rich, famous people
Lex Fridman (1:13:35.840)
that commit suicide, like, wow, you missed the mark.
Joe Rogan (1:13:39.280)
You got some parts right,
Lex Fridman (1:13:41.560)
but you put too many eggs in one basket.
Joe Rogan (1:13:44.080)
You put too many eggs in the financial basket
Lex Fridman (1:13:46.800)
or the success basket or the accomplishment basket
Lex Fridman (1:13:49.800)
and not enough in the friendship and love basket.
Lex Fridman (1:13:52.000)
And there's a balance to that.
Lex Fridman (1:13:53.660)
And when I talked about the violence and all that stuff,
Lex Fridman (1:13:56.880)
like that to me is me understanding, recognizing that
Joe Rogan (1:14:00.360)
is me trying to achieve that balance.
Lex Fridman (1:14:02.880)
It's to like go kill those demons
Lex Fridman (1:14:05.380)
so that this boat is level, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:14:07.460)
because if it's not, then the boat is like this
Lex Fridman (1:14:09.580)
and then everything's all fucked up.
Lex Fridman (1:14:10.860)
And every time we hit a wave, things fall apart.
Joe Rogan (1:14:13.200)
Balance that boat out, figure it out, like know who you are.
Lex Fridman (1:14:16.720)
Some people don't have that problem at all.
Joe Rogan (1:14:18.760)
Some people, they could just go for walks
Lex Fridman (1:14:20.520)
and they're cool as a cucumber.
Joe Rogan (1:14:22.160)
I need more, you know, I need kettlebells.
Lex Fridman (1:14:24.840)
I need a heavy bag.
Joe Rogan (1:14:26.280)
I need the Echo bike, you know, the Air Assault bike.
Lex Fridman (1:14:29.680)
I need some hardcore shit.
Lex Fridman (1:14:31.760)
And if I don't get that, I don't feel good.
Lex Fridman (1:14:33.800)
So I figured that out too.
Lex Fridman (1:14:35.600)
And that makes me a nicer person.
Lex Fridman (1:14:37.800)
That makes my interactions nicer.
Joe Rogan (1:14:39.400)
It changes the quality of my friendships
Lex Fridman (1:14:44.320)
and my relationships with people.
Joe Rogan (1:14:46.360)
I think we mentioned Neuralink.
Lex Fridman (1:14:49.200)
I can certainly guarantee that this is one of the memories
Joe Rogan (1:14:53.080)
I'll be replaying 20, 30 years from now
Lex Fridman (1:14:55.680)
once we get the feature ready.
Joe Rogan (1:14:57.080)
Joe, it's a huge honor to talk to you.
Lex Fridman (1:14:58.920)
I hope. It's an honor
Joe Rogan (1:14:59.760)
to talk to you too, man.
Lex Fridman (1:15:00.600)
Keep doing podcasts. I'm glad you came down here for this.
Joe Rogan (1:15:02.960)
The first week of me doing this here
Lex Fridman (1:15:04.760)
and it's very cool to have you always.
Joe Rogan (1:15:07.680)
I hope you make Texas cool again
Lex Fridman (1:15:10.200)
and do your podcast another 10, 11, whatever,
Joe Rogan (1:15:14.920)
however many years you're still on this earth.
Lex Fridman (1:15:17.160)
All right, thank you, brother.
Joe Rogan (1:15:18.000)
I appreciate you, man.
Lex Fridman (1:15:19.740)
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Joe Rogan
Lex Fridman (1:15:22.120)
and thank you to our sponsors,
Lex Fridman (1:15:24.200)
Neuro, Eight Sleep and Dollar Shave Club.
Joe Rogan (1:15:27.440)
Check them out in the description to get a discount
Lex Fridman (1:15:29.920)
and to support this podcast.
Joe Rogan (1:15:33.080)
If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube,
Lex Fridman (1:15:35.320)
review it with Five Stars and Apple Podcast,
Joe Rogan (1:15:37.320)
follow on Spotify, support on Patreon
Lex Fridman (1:15:39.920)
or connect with me on Twitter, Alex Friedman.
Lex Fridman (1:15:43.000)
And now let me leave you with some words of wisdom
Lex Fridman (1:15:45.560)
from Joe Rogan, the universe rewards,
Joe Rogan (1:15:48.960)
calculated risk and passion.
Lex Fridman (1:15:51.220)
Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
Joe Rogan (20:02.000)
I think there's certainly some genetic violence in me.
Lex Fridman (20:06.640)
There's certainly.
Lex Fridman (20:07.480)
And then you channeled it.
Lex Fridman (20:08.320)
So you figured out it's basically your life
Joe Rogan (20:10.480)
is a productive exploration of how to channel that.
Lex Fridman (20:13.320)
Yes, how to figure out how to get that monkey to sit down
Lex Fridman (20:18.760)
and calm down.
Lex Fridman (20:19.880)
There's another person in there.
Joe Rogan (20:21.200)
Like there's a calm, rational, kind, friendly person
Lex Fridman (20:26.360)
who just wants to laugh and have fun.
Lex Fridman (20:28.320)
And then there's that dude who comes out
Lex Fridman (20:30.640)
when I did Sober October.
Joe Rogan (20:32.680)
That guy's scary.
Lex Fridman (20:33.560)
I don't like that guy.
Joe Rogan (20:34.720)
That guy just wants to get up in the morning and go.
Lex Fridman (20:37.440)
It's like, I mean, when I was competing, it was necessary.
Lex Fridman (20:42.440)
But it makes me remember.
Lex Fridman (20:44.360)
I didn't really remember what I used to be like until that.
Joe Rogan (20:48.480)
It's like when I'm working out seven hours a day
Lex Fridman (20:51.840)
and just so obsessed.
Lex Fridman (20:53.680)
And all I was thinking about was winning.
Lex Fridman (20:55.960)
That's all I was thinking about.
Joe Rogan (20:56.960)
Like if they were working out five hours a day,
Lex Fridman (20:59.280)
I wanted them to know that I was gonna work out
Joe Rogan (21:01.760)
an extra three hours and I was gonna get up early
Lex Fridman (21:04.480)
and I was gonna text them all.
Joe Rogan (21:05.720)
Hey, pussies, I'm up already.
Lex Fridman (21:07.320)
Take pictures, send selfies.
Joe Rogan (21:09.520)
I was like, you're gonna die.
Lex Fridman (21:11.160)
I kept telling them, you're all gonna die.
Joe Rogan (21:13.000)
You try to keep up with me, you're gonna die.
Lex Fridman (21:14.840)
You weren't fully joking.
Joe Rogan (21:16.600)
No, I wasn't joking at all.
Lex Fridman (21:18.040)
That's what was fucked up about it.
Joe Rogan (21:19.360)
This is the scary thing when I interacted with Goggins
Lex Fridman (21:21.480)
and what I saw in you during that time is like,
Joe Rogan (21:26.760)
this guy, like, this is why I've been avoiding
Lex Fridman (21:30.760)
David Ganga's recently.
Joe Rogan (21:33.640)
Is like, cause he wants to meet,
Lex Fridman (21:35.040)
he wants to talk on this podcast,
Lex Fridman (21:36.960)
but he also wants to run an ultra marathon with me.
Lex Fridman (21:39.720)
And I felt like this is a person,
Joe Rogan (21:42.160)
if I spend any time in this realm,
Lex Fridman (21:44.440)
if I spend any time with a Joe Rogan of that sober October,
Joe Rogan (21:48.280)
like, I might have to die to get out.
Lex Fridman (21:50.880)
Like, there's this kind of...
Joe Rogan (21:52.680)
Yeah, there's a competitive aspect that's super unhealthy.
Lex Fridman (21:55.560)
I mean, you saw the video that we watched earlier today
Joe Rogan (21:57.640)
of Goggins draining his knee.
Lex Fridman (21:59.400)
That would stop me from running ever again
Joe Rogan (22:01.640)
because I would think in my head, okay,
Lex Fridman (22:03.280)
I'm gonna ruin my cartilage.
Joe Rogan (22:04.560)
I'm gonna need a knee replacement.
Lex Fridman (22:06.240)
I would start thinking, I would go down that line,
Lex Fridman (22:08.840)
but he is perpetually in this push it mindset,
Lex Fridman (22:13.720)
what he calls the dog in him.
Joe Rogan (22:16.280)
That dog is in him all day long and he feeds that dog.
Lex Fridman (22:20.040)
And that's who he is.
Joe Rogan (22:22.560)
That's one of the reasons why he's so inspirational
Lex Fridman (22:24.520)
and he's fuel for millions and millions of people.
Joe Rogan (22:27.720)
I mean, he really is.
Lex Fridman (22:28.680)
He motivates people in a way that is so powerful,
Lex Fridman (22:32.600)
but it can be very destructive.
Lex Fridman (22:35.160)
I know now, especially after the sober October thing,
Joe Rogan (22:39.800)
that that thing's still in me.
Lex Fridman (22:41.560)
I didn't know,
Lex Fridman (22:43.080)
so I really haven't done anything physically competitive,
Lex Fridman (22:45.480)
except one time I was supposed to fight Wesley Snipes.
Joe Rogan (22:48.000)
It came out then too.
Lex Fridman (22:49.320)
That came out too.
Joe Rogan (22:50.720)
That got creepy too, but luckily that never happened.
Lex Fridman (22:53.800)
But that was many months of training,
Joe Rogan (22:56.760)
like training twice a day, every day,
Lex Fridman (22:59.600)
kickboxing in the morning, jiu jitsu at night.
Joe Rogan (23:01.960)
I was just going and going and going and going.
Lex Fridman (23:04.200)
And I was just thinking just all day long.
Lex Fridman (23:06.880)
But it fucks with all the other aspects of your life.
Lex Fridman (23:09.720)
It fucks with your friendships.
Joe Rogan (23:10.960)
It fucks with my comedy.
Lex Fridman (23:13.600)
It fucks with everything.
Joe Rogan (23:14.880)
Because that mindset is not a mindset of an artist.
Lex Fridman (23:18.480)
It's a mindset of a conqueror.
Joe Rogan (23:20.280)
The conqueror. Yeah.
Lex Fridman (23:21.400)
Destroyer.
Joe Rogan (23:22.240)
That's why it's so interesting to see Mike Tyson
Lex Fridman (23:24.200)
make the switch.
Joe Rogan (23:25.320)
It's clear that whatever that is, however that fight goes,
Lex Fridman (23:29.120)
there's a switch.
Joe Rogan (23:30.920)
He stepped into a different dimension.
Lex Fridman (23:32.800)
Roy Jones Jr. is coming on my podcast soon.
Lex Fridman (23:35.040)
And Roy's going to be on before the fight.
Lex Fridman (23:38.440)
I'm so curious to see how it goes down,
Lex Fridman (23:42.640)
but genuinely concerned.
Lex Fridman (23:44.880)
Because Mike Tyson is a heavyweight.
Lex Fridman (23:46.840)
And Roy Jones at his best was 168 pounds.
Lex Fridman (23:49.880)
And that's a lot.
Joe Rogan (23:50.760)
I don't know if Roy has that room in his house, mental house,
Lex Fridman (23:54.600)
of where Mike Tyson goes.
Joe Rogan (23:55.920)
I don't know.
Lex Fridman (23:57.040)
I don't know if he has that room.
Joe Rogan (23:58.440)
Mike doesn't have a room.
Lex Fridman (23:59.600)
He's got an empire in there.
Joe Rogan (24:01.560)
He opens up the door.
Lex Fridman (24:03.040)
He opens up the door.
Joe Rogan (24:04.000)
There's a whole empire in his head.
Lex Fridman (24:06.120)
And he's in that firmly.
Joe Rogan (24:08.680)
When he got out of the weed and started training again,
Lex Fridman (24:12.520)
you could see it in him.
Lex Fridman (24:13.720)
And by the way, physically, in person, he looks spectacular.
Lex Fridman (24:18.000)
He looks like a fucking Adonis.
Joe Rogan (24:20.280)
I mean, he looks ready to go.
Lex Fridman (24:22.040)
It's crazy.
Joe Rogan (24:23.120)
Yeah, I watch his videos of him.
Lex Fridman (24:24.520)
What about you?
Lex Fridman (24:25.800)
Have you ever considered competing in jiu jitsu?
Lex Fridman (24:28.560)
No, for that very reason.
Joe Rogan (24:30.160)
I don't want to get obsessed.
Lex Fridman (24:32.120)
That's my number one concern.
Joe Rogan (24:34.040)
I had to quit video games when we were playing video games
Lex Fridman (24:36.800)
in the studio.
Joe Rogan (24:37.320)
I had to quit because I was playing five hours a day,
Lex Fridman (24:39.640)
like out of nowhere.
Joe Rogan (24:40.480)
All of a sudden, I was playing five hours a day.
Lex Fridman (24:41.840)
I was coming home late for dinner.
Joe Rogan (24:43.400)
I was ending podcasts early and jumping on the video games
Lex Fridman (24:46.600)
and playing.
Joe Rogan (24:47.640)
I get obsessed with things.
Lex Fridman (24:48.960)
And I have to recognize what that is
Lex Fridman (24:51.640)
and these competitive things, like competitive, especially
Lex Fridman (24:54.960)
like really exciting competitive things like video games.
Joe Rogan (24:57.520)
They're very dangerous for me.
Lex Fridman (24:58.920)
The ultimate competitive video game is like jiu jitsu.
Lex Fridman (25:02.240)
And if I was young, I most certainly would have done it.
Lex Fridman (25:05.280)
If I didn't have a very clear career path,
Joe Rogan (25:08.240)
it was something that I enjoyed.
Lex Fridman (25:09.640)
My concern would be that I would become a professional jiu jitsu
Joe Rogan (25:12.440)
fighter when I was young.
Lex Fridman (25:14.120)
And then I would not have the energy
Joe Rogan (25:15.920)
to do stand up and do all the other things
Lex Fridman (25:18.280)
that I wound up doing as a career.
Joe Rogan (25:20.640)
When I was 21, I quit my job teaching.
Lex Fridman (25:25.240)
I was teaching at Boston University.
Joe Rogan (25:27.280)
I was teaching Taekwondo there.
Lex Fridman (25:29.000)
And I knew, and I also had my own school in Revere.
Joe Rogan (25:33.520)
I knew I couldn't do it right.
Lex Fridman (25:35.400)
And also be doing stand up comedy.
Joe Rogan (25:38.440)
I knew I couldn't do both of those things.
Lex Fridman (25:40.320)
There was no way.
Joe Rogan (25:41.200)
You have to be cognizant of that obsessive force
Lex Fridman (25:44.480)
within you to make sure.
Joe Rogan (25:45.800)
Yes, I'd have to know how to manage my mental illness.
Lex Fridman (25:49.320)
That's a very particular mental illness.
Lex Fridman (25:51.560)
And I think that mental illness, again,
Lex Fridman (25:54.000)
my formative years from 15 until I was 21ish, 22,
Joe Rogan (25:59.640)
those years were spent constantly
Lex Fridman (26:03.560)
obsessed with martial arts.
Joe Rogan (26:05.720)
That was my whole day.
Lex Fridman (26:07.040)
I mean, I trained almost every day.
Joe Rogan (26:09.240)
The only time I would not train is if I was either injured
Lex Fridman (26:11.880)
or if I was exhausted, if I needed a day off.
Lex Fridman (26:15.640)
But I was obsessed.
Lex Fridman (26:17.000)
And so that part of my personality
Joe Rogan (26:20.320)
that I haven't nurtured is always
Lex Fridman (26:22.000)
going to be there under the surface.
Lex Fridman (26:24.080)
And when it gets reignited by something, it's very weird.
Lex Fridman (26:28.320)
It's a weird feeling.
Lex Fridman (26:29.600)
And it can get reignited with a video game.
Lex Fridman (26:31.760)
It can get reignited with anything.
Joe Rogan (26:33.720)
That obsessive whatever it is, that competitive demon.
Lex Fridman (26:38.160)
Yeah, the way you talk about guitar,
Joe Rogan (26:39.600)
I know you would fall in love with playing guitar.
Lex Fridman (26:42.080)
But I think you're very wise to not touch that thing.
Joe Rogan (26:44.400)
That's why I won't golf.
Lex Fridman (26:45.960)
I have friends who want to golf.
Joe Rogan (26:47.280)
I'm like, mm mm, I don't fucking want that thing.
Lex Fridman (26:49.680)
So a lot of people ask me like,
Lex Fridman (26:52.200)
what's Joe Rogan's jiu jitsu game like?
Lex Fridman (26:55.200)
Like assuming that I somehow spend hours
Joe Rogan (26:59.800)
rolling with you before and after a track.
Lex Fridman (27:02.480)
I mean, what's a good, you should at some point
Joe Rogan (27:05.640)
show a technique or something.
Lex Fridman (27:06.880)
That'd be fun.
Joe Rogan (27:07.720)
Sure, I mean, I've got this technique online.
Lex Fridman (27:10.440)
Oh, I saw you doing, I think, head and arm something online.
Joe Rogan (27:15.320)
Yeah, I did.
Lex Fridman (27:17.240)
I fucked my neck up doing head and arm chokes.
Joe Rogan (27:19.160)
I did them so much that I,
Lex Fridman (27:21.240)
because you use your neck so much with head and arm chokes,
Joe Rogan (27:24.680)
I developed like a real kink in my neck.
Lex Fridman (27:27.320)
And it turned out I had a bulging disc.
Joe Rogan (27:30.000)
And, you know.
Lex Fridman (27:31.280)
So you do it on that, just one side?
Joe Rogan (27:33.120)
Well, it was, no, I could do it on the left side,
Lex Fridman (27:35.800)
but I definitely am better on the right side.
Joe Rogan (27:38.160)
The right side was my best side.
Lex Fridman (27:39.400)
So if you were to compete, let's say,
Lex Fridman (27:41.120)
like what's your A game?
Lex Fridman (27:42.480)
Where would you go from standing up?
Lex Fridman (27:45.040)
How would you go to submission?
Lex Fridman (27:46.680)
Would you pull guard, would you take down?
Lex Fridman (27:49.400)
How would you pass guard?
Lex Fridman (27:51.680)
I don't have good takedowns.
Joe Rogan (27:52.920)
I was not a good wrestler.
Lex Fridman (27:54.240)
So I would most likely either pull guard
Joe Rogan (27:57.600)
or I would pull half guard.
Lex Fridman (27:59.240)
Do you have a good guard?
Joe Rogan (28:00.080)
Yes.
Lex Fridman (28:00.920)
Are you comfortable being on your butt, on your back?
Joe Rogan (28:02.880)
Yes, I'm very flexible.
Lex Fridman (28:04.800)
So I have a good, my rubber guard is pretty good.
Joe Rogan (28:07.000)
You go to rubber guard.
Lex Fridman (28:07.840)
Yeah, I have good arm bars and good triangles off my back.
Lex Fridman (28:10.600)
But I also have a very good half guard,
Lex Fridman (28:14.000)
but my top game is my best.
Joe Rogan (28:16.040)
I have a very strong top game.
Lex Fridman (28:18.520)
Do you have a half guard?
Lex Fridman (28:19.520)
Do you have a preference of like what kind of guard
Lex Fridman (28:21.960)
and how to pass that guard?
Lex Fridman (28:23.440)
And like, yeah, like, is there a specific game plan?
Lex Fridman (28:28.640)
Like, do you?
Joe Rogan (28:29.480)
Double underhooks from half guard is the game plan for me.
Lex Fridman (28:32.720)
If I can get double underhooks from half guard,
Joe Rogan (28:34.680)
I could sweep a lot of people.
Lex Fridman (28:36.240)
Underhooks of what?
Lex Fridman (28:37.920)
Sorry, the arms or the legs?
Lex Fridman (28:38.760)
So half guard, lockdown, right?
Joe Rogan (28:41.160)
Half guard, go into lockdown, double underhooks.
Lex Fridman (28:44.120)
Got it.
Joe Rogan (28:44.960)
Suck the body, suck the body.
Lex Fridman (28:46.320)
Just pressure.
Lex Fridman (28:47.160)
And yeah, massive pressure.
Lex Fridman (28:48.800)
And then inch my way into a position we call the dog fight
Lex Fridman (28:52.720)
and inch my way to a position
Lex Fridman (28:54.320)
where I could get the person on their back.
Joe Rogan (28:56.680)
Yeah, that's what,
Lex Fridman (28:57.520)
cause you did show me,
Joe Rogan (28:58.480)
I still disagree with you about the tie thing.
Lex Fridman (29:01.360)
The tie.
Joe Rogan (29:02.200)
That you can choke somebody with it.
Lex Fridman (29:03.040)
Oh, tie is wrong.
Lex Fridman (29:03.880)
So wrong, so wrong.
Lex Fridman (29:05.120)
Well, it's not wrong with you.
Joe Rogan (29:06.440)
With you, it's wrong.
Lex Fridman (29:07.520)
Cause you know.
Joe Rogan (29:08.360)
No, I think there's a system.
Lex Fridman (29:09.400)
I have this thing, Madonna hair,
Joe Rogan (29:11.880)
we're gonna figure it out.
Lex Fridman (29:12.960)
Okay.
Lex Fridman (29:13.800)
But the.
Lex Fridman (29:14.640)
There's Velcro on the back.
Joe Rogan (29:16.040)
No, but see, that's, you're just not the.
Lex Fridman (29:17.600)
You're cheating.
Joe Rogan (29:18.440)
You're not, you're the exact, that's cheating.
Lex Fridman (29:20.040)
Yeah, you did, I did feel when you showed me,
Joe Rogan (29:24.200)
I think you showed me the rubber guard
Lex Fridman (29:25.960)
cause it's still a guard.
Joe Rogan (29:27.040)
That's a little bit foreign to me.
Lex Fridman (29:28.240)
I just felt that you can immediately feel,
Joe Rogan (29:30.920)
not with the rubber guard,
Lex Fridman (29:32.120)
but the way you move your body is,
Joe Rogan (29:34.600)
you're like a Shanji type of guy
Lex Fridman (29:37.840)
who knows how to control another human being.
Lex Fridman (29:40.560)
So like some people are a little bit more,
Lex Fridman (29:43.360)
I would say agile and technical,
Joe Rogan (29:44.920)
like playful and kind of.
Lex Fridman (29:47.160)
Loose.
Joe Rogan (29:48.000)
Loose and they work on transition, transition, transition.
Lex Fridman (29:51.760)
You're a control guy.
Joe Rogan (29:52.920)
Like you know how to control position
Lex Fridman (29:54.680)
and advanced position.
Joe Rogan (29:56.200)
Donna hair is the same way.
Lex Fridman (29:57.280)
He's all about control.
Joe Rogan (29:58.440)
My game is smush.
Lex Fridman (30:00.280)
That's my game.
Joe Rogan (30:01.120)
Smush you, grab a hold of you.
Lex Fridman (30:03.200)
Once I have you, why would I let you go?
Lex Fridman (30:04.960)
That's my thought is like, why would I let you go?
Lex Fridman (30:06.880)
I just wanna incrementally move to a better position
Joe Rogan (30:09.680)
until I can strangle you.
Lex Fridman (30:11.240)
But I'm much more into strangling people
Joe Rogan (30:14.280)
than anything else.
Lex Fridman (30:15.320)
Yeah, which is a great MMA approach for jiu jitsu.
Joe Rogan (30:20.520)
Well, too many people don't tap when you get their arms.
Lex Fridman (30:24.320)
And I'm not opposed to arm bars.
Joe Rogan (30:26.360)
I love arm bars, but everybody goes to sleep.
Lex Fridman (30:30.680)
And quit from pressure too.
Joe Rogan (30:33.080)
I mean, quit mentally.
Lex Fridman (30:35.480)
There's nothing like that.
Joe Rogan (30:36.320)
You can't breathe.
Lex Fridman (30:37.520)
If you've got a guy who's like a really good top game guy
Lex Fridman (30:40.080)
and he mounts you, and I'm a big fan of mounting
Lex Fridman (30:42.800)
with my legs crossed, like a guard, like a top guard.
Lex Fridman (30:47.360)
And so I can squeeze with both legs, smush.
Lex Fridman (30:52.240)
And I'm just looking for people to make mistakes
Lex Fridman (30:54.880)
and slowly incrementally bettering my position
Lex Fridman (30:57.720)
until I can get something locked up.
Joe Rogan (31:00.040)
I love jiu jitsu though, man.
Lex Fridman (31:01.280)
I just wish it didn't injure you.
Joe Rogan (31:03.480)
Jiu jitsu is like, if your joints were more durable,
Lex Fridman (31:06.440)
they could figure out a way to make joints more durable.
Joe Rogan (31:08.640)
God, I could do jiu jitsu forever.
Lex Fridman (31:10.600)
So much fun.
Joe Rogan (31:12.240)
I actually, I talked to this roboticist, Russ Tedrick.
Lex Fridman (31:15.480)
He builds, he's one of the world class people
Joe Rogan (31:17.800)
that builds humanoid robots.
Lex Fridman (31:19.200)
You were interested in Boston Dynamics.
Joe Rogan (31:20.600)
He's one of the key people in that kind of robotics.
Lex Fridman (31:23.360)
So I asked him the stupidest question of like,
Lex Fridman (31:25.480)
how far are we from having a robot be a UFC champion?
Lex Fridman (31:31.400)
And yeah, it's actually a really, really tough problem.
Joe Rogan (31:34.120)
It's the same thing that makes somebody
Lex Fridman (31:38.040)
like Danielle Comey on the wrestling side special,
Joe Rogan (31:41.120)
because you have to understand the movement
Lex Fridman (31:42.560)
of the human body in ways that's so difficult to teach.
Joe Rogan (31:45.920)
It's so subtle.
Lex Fridman (31:47.080)
The timing, the pressure points, the leverage,
Joe Rogan (31:49.840)
all those kinds of things.
Lex Fridman (31:50.680)
That's just for the clinch situation.
Lex Fridman (31:52.880)
And then the movement for the striking is very difficult.
Lex Fridman (31:56.680)
As long as you're not allowed as a robot
Joe Rogan (31:58.840)
to use your natural abilities of having a lot more power.
Lex Fridman (32:03.560)
Right, a lot more power and more durable.
Joe Rogan (32:06.480)
Right.
Lex Fridman (32:07.320)
The human body, like especially meniscus.
Joe Rogan (32:09.640)
Like you see the heel hook game,
Lex Fridman (32:12.040)
like everybody's involved in leg locks and heel hooks.
Joe Rogan (32:14.200)
Like all those guys wind up with torched knees.
Lex Fridman (32:18.160)
Everyone's got torched knees.
Joe Rogan (32:19.520)
Everyone's knees are torn apart.
Lex Fridman (32:21.400)
And you don't grow new meniscus.
Joe Rogan (32:23.320)
You know, that's like one of those joints where,
Lex Fridman (32:25.640)
man, when it goes, those guys are 28 years old,
Joe Rogan (32:29.720)
they've blown out knees.
Lex Fridman (32:31.720)
Let me ask the ridiculous question.
Lex Fridman (32:33.000)
What do you think, we're talking about cops,
Lex Fridman (32:34.680)
what do you think is the best martial arts self defense?
Joe Rogan (32:38.280)
For sure, jiu jitsu.
Lex Fridman (32:39.480)
Yeah, for sure.
Lex Fridman (32:40.320)
Wrestling?
Lex Fridman (32:41.160)
I think grappling, I should say.
Joe Rogan (32:43.720)
Judo as well, especially in a cold climate,
Lex Fridman (32:46.160)
if you get someone who's got like a heavy winter jacket on,
Joe Rogan (32:48.720)
my God, like judo's an incredible martial art.
Lex Fridman (32:50.800)
Plus concrete.
Joe Rogan (32:53.040)
That's the worst place to be,
Lex Fridman (32:54.600)
with a heavy winter jacket with a judo specialist
Lex Fridman (32:57.480)
and you're standing up with them, oh my God.
Lex Fridman (33:00.320)
But I think grappling,
Joe Rogan (33:01.920)
because in most self defense situations,
Lex Fridman (33:03.800)
it usually winds up with grappling.
Joe Rogan (33:05.760)
You're definitely better off, though,
Lex Fridman (33:07.280)
knowing some striking,
Joe Rogan (33:08.720)
because there's nothing more terrifying
Lex Fridman (33:10.200)
than when you go to take someone down,
Joe Rogan (33:11.560)
they actually have takedown skills, but they can fight.
Lex Fridman (33:14.440)
And so they have takedown defense
Lex Fridman (33:16.280)
and they know how to fight,
Lex Fridman (33:17.360)
and then you don't know how to stand up.
Joe Rogan (33:19.040)
Like the worst thing in the world
Lex Fridman (33:20.320)
is seeing someone like reaching
Joe Rogan (33:21.640)
who doesn't know how to do striking and someone cracks you.
Lex Fridman (33:25.280)
What about all that Krav Maga talk,
Joe Rogan (33:27.200)
which is like, you know, the whole line of argument
Lex Fridman (33:30.040)
that says that jiu jitsu and wrestling
Lex Fridman (33:31.760)
and all of these sports, they fundamentally take you away
Lex Fridman (33:35.040)
from the nature of violence.
Lex Fridman (33:36.360)
So they're just teaching you how to play
Lex Fridman (33:39.400)
versus the reality of violence
Joe Rogan (33:44.160)
that is involved in like a self defense situation
Lex Fridman (33:47.800)
that is a totally different set of skills would be needed.
Joe Rogan (33:52.040)
In general, the people that say that jiu jitsu
Lex Fridman (33:55.360)
or other martial arts, it's more of a sport
Lex Fridman (33:59.720)
and they don't really understand violence.
Lex Fridman (34:03.880)
In general, the people that say that suck.
Joe Rogan (34:08.200)
Anybody who thinks like, someone's like,
Lex Fridman (34:10.440)
you know, hey man, I'll just bite you.
Lex Fridman (34:12.000)
I'm like, are you gonna bite me?
Lex Fridman (34:13.680)
Okay.
Lex Fridman (34:14.720)
Do you think I'm gonna bite you too?
Lex Fridman (34:15.920)
What do you think of that?
Lex Fridman (34:16.800)
What if I punch you in your fucking face?
Lex Fridman (34:18.480)
You think you're still gonna bite me
Lex Fridman (34:19.840)
when you can't even see?
Lex Fridman (34:21.480)
When you barely even know you're alive
Lex Fridman (34:24.000)
and I choke you unconscious?
Lex Fridman (34:25.560)
If someone's really good at jiu jitsu,
Joe Rogan (34:27.440)
good luck stabbing them with your keys.
Lex Fridman (34:29.880)
You know, you don't have a chance.
Joe Rogan (34:31.400)
You don't have a chance.
Lex Fridman (34:32.240)
If someone's much better than you
Lex Fridman (34:33.080)
and they trip you and get you on your back
Lex Fridman (34:35.440)
and then they fucking elbow you in your face
Lex Fridman (34:37.680)
and then get a head and arm choke on you,
Lex Fridman (34:39.480)
all that crap, my gosh, it's out the window, son.
Joe Rogan (34:41.840)
You're way better off learning what works on trained killers.
Lex Fridman (34:47.240)
Like this whole idea that you're gonna poke someone
Joe Rogan (34:48.920)
in the eye and then you're gonna kick them in the nuts.
Lex Fridman (34:50.760)
Like you're going through these drills
Joe Rogan (34:53.280)
that yeah, it's good to know what to do
Lex Fridman (34:55.560)
if you run into someone who doesn't know how to fight.
Joe Rogan (34:57.800)
It's way better to know what to do
Lex Fridman (35:00.200)
to someone who knows how to fight.
Joe Rogan (35:02.240)
That's the best thing.
Lex Fridman (35:03.800)
Learn how to fight against people who know how to fight.
Joe Rogan (35:07.320)
Like all that practice self defense
Lex Fridman (35:09.920)
and they go, it's gonna come at you with a knife.
Joe Rogan (35:11.680)
You're gonna grab the wrist and do that.
Lex Fridman (35:13.240)
Like it's good to know self defense,
Lex Fridman (35:16.760)
but it's much more important
Lex Fridman (35:18.880)
to understand martial arts comprehensively.
Joe Rogan (35:22.080)
When you understand martial arts comprehensively,
Lex Fridman (35:24.360)
like there's no, I shouldn't say there's no Krav Maga guys,
Lex Fridman (35:27.400)
but it would be shocking if a Krav Maga guy
Lex Fridman (35:32.040)
and a mixed martial arts guy had a fight
Lex Fridman (35:34.560)
and the mixed martial arts guy
Lex Fridman (35:35.720)
who's a trained killer all around didn't fuck that guy up.
Joe Rogan (35:39.440)
That's what I would expect would happen.
Lex Fridman (35:42.000)
I would not think that some guy
Joe Rogan (35:44.680)
who has a little bit of this and a little bit of that
Lex Fridman (35:48.080)
and prepares for the streets is gonna be able
Joe Rogan (35:50.600)
to handle a person who trains with killers
Lex Fridman (35:53.320)
on a day to day basis,
Joe Rogan (35:54.520)
who rolls with jujitsu black belts,
Lex Fridman (35:56.320)
who trains with Muay Thai champions.
Joe Rogan (35:58.120)
Like the best martial arts are the martial arts
Lex Fridman (36:01.880)
that work on martial artists,
Joe Rogan (36:03.800)
not the martial arts that work on untrained people.
Lex Fridman (36:06.400)
What about, we're in Texas now.
Lex Fridman (36:08.120)
What about guns?
Lex Fridman (36:09.360)
Well, that's the best martial art.
Joe Rogan (36:10.760)
No, but would you, like in this crazy time,
Lex Fridman (36:14.960)
should people carry guns?
Joe Rogan (36:17.040)
It's not a bad idea to have a gun
Lex Fridman (36:19.200)
because if you need a gun, you have a gun.
Lex Fridman (36:22.240)
And if you don't need a gun,
Lex Fridman (36:24.040)
if you're a person with self control,
Joe Rogan (36:25.680)
you're not gonna use it.
Lex Fridman (36:26.800)
You're not gonna just randomly use it,
Lex Fridman (36:28.440)
but you have something to protect you.
Lex Fridman (36:30.480)
This is the whole idea of the Second Amendment.
Joe Rogan (36:32.280)
The whole idea of the Second Amendment
Lex Fridman (36:33.320)
gets distorted by mass shootings
Joe Rogan (36:34.920)
or by terrible people who murder people
Lex Fridman (36:37.200)
and do terrible things.
Lex Fridman (36:38.080)
But all those things are real,
Lex Fridman (36:40.920)
but they don't take away from the fundamental efficacy
Joe Rogan (36:46.160)
of having a firearm and defending your family
Lex Fridman (36:49.200)
or defending your life.
Lex Fridman (36:50.760)
And there are real live situations
Lex Fridman (36:53.200)
where people have had firearms
Lex Fridman (36:55.520)
and it's protected them or their loved ones
Lex Fridman (36:58.160)
or they've stopped shooters.
Joe Rogan (36:59.880)
There's many of these stories,
Lex Fridman (37:01.640)
but people don't like those stories
Joe Rogan (37:02.840)
because then it tends to lead to this gun culture argument,
Lex Fridman (37:06.760)
this pro gun culture argument
Joe Rogan (37:08.520)
that people find very uncomfortable.
Lex Fridman (37:11.200)
Human beings are messy
Lex Fridman (37:13.000)
and we're messy in so many different ways, right?
Lex Fridman (37:15.280)
We're messy emotionally, we're messy physically,
Lex Fridman (37:19.040)
but we're also messy in what's good or bad.
Lex Fridman (37:22.160)
We want things to be binary.
Joe Rogan (37:23.800)
We want things to be right or wrong, one or zero.
Lex Fridman (37:27.280)
And they're not, but there is crime in the world.
Joe Rogan (37:31.280)
There is violence in the world
Lex Fridman (37:32.760)
and you're better off knowing how to fight
Lex Fridman (37:35.080)
and you're better off knowing how to defend yourself
Lex Fridman (37:37.800)
and you're better off having a gun.
Lex Fridman (37:39.600)
And I generally think that guns,
Lex Fridman (37:41.920)
I do like the idea that guns,
Joe Rogan (37:44.400)
the Second Amendment helps protect the First Amendment.
Lex Fridman (37:46.520)
There's a kind of sense that puts me at ease
Joe Rogan (37:50.240)
knowing that so many people in this country have guns
Lex Fridman (37:53.560)
that, I mean, Alex Jones,
Joe Rogan (37:55.520)
I just listened to one episode of Infowars
Lex Fridman (37:58.400)
for the first time.
Joe Rogan (38:00.040)
Boy, he reminds me like when I drank some tequila,
Lex Fridman (38:03.600)
I felt like I'm going to some dark places today.
Joe Rogan (38:06.480)
That's how I feel like listening to him.
Lex Fridman (38:08.600)
But he talks about like that he worries about martial law.
Lex Fridman (38:13.600)
So basically government overreach by,
Lex Fridman (38:16.040)
which happened throughout history.
Joe Rogan (38:17.840)
Like there's something to worry about there,
Lex Fridman (38:20.680)
but it puts me at ease knowing
Joe Rogan (38:22.840)
that so much of the population has guns
Lex Fridman (38:25.760)
that people, government would think twice
Joe Rogan (38:28.160)
before instituting martial law on cities.
Lex Fridman (38:31.280)
But I actually was asking almost like
Joe Rogan (38:33.720)
on the individual level,
Lex Fridman (38:35.360)
I maybe shouldn't say this, but I don't yet own a gun.
Lex Fridman (38:39.400)
And I felt that if I carry a gun
Lex Fridman (38:42.560)
statistically just for me as a human,
Joe Rogan (38:46.200)
knowing my psychology,
Lex Fridman (38:47.240)
I feel like I'm more likely to die.
Joe Rogan (38:49.880)
Like I feel like I would put myself in situations
Lex Fridman (38:53.640)
that I shouldn't.
Joe Rogan (38:54.480)
Like the way I will see the world will change
Lex Fridman (38:57.600)
because my natural feeling is like when somebody,
Joe Rogan (39:01.200)
when I was in Philly and I knew late at night,
Lex Fridman (39:04.240)
if West Philly, when some guy looks at you
Lex Fridman (39:08.400)
and you can immediately calculate
Lex Fridman (39:09.920)
that this is a dangerous human being,
Joe Rogan (39:12.000)
it starts with a monkey look at first.
Lex Fridman (39:14.600)
Like I'm a bigger monkey than you.
Lex Fridman (39:17.160)
And that's where I found like, for example,
Lex Fridman (39:19.240)
I'll do the beta thing of just looking down
Lex Fridman (39:21.120)
and turning away and just getting out of trouble
Lex Fridman (39:23.200)
like very politely.
Lex Fridman (39:25.080)
And basically that kind of approach,
Lex Fridman (39:28.040)
because if you have,
Joe Rogan (39:30.000)
in terms of getting out of serious violent situations,
Lex Fridman (39:32.760)
like serious something where you could die
Joe Rogan (39:35.560)
versus if I had a gun, I feel like I would want to be,
Lex Fridman (39:39.440)
that there would be that cowboy monkey thing
Joe Rogan (39:43.080)
where I would want to put myself in situations
Lex Fridman (39:45.640)
where I'm a little bit of a savior, even of myself
Lex Fridman (39:48.800)
and almost create danger, which can no longer,
Lex Fridman (39:53.200)
like the escalation of which I can no longer control.
Joe Rogan (39:57.080)
Well, you're talking about taking a gun somewhere
Lex Fridman (39:59.160)
versus having a gun in your home.
Joe Rogan (40:00.640)
Yes, yes, I mean carry on me.
Lex Fridman (40:02.200)
That's a different situation
Lex Fridman (40:03.280)
and much harder to get a warrant or a license for that.
Lex Fridman (40:07.840)
Control, concealed carry licenses,
Joe Rogan (40:10.400)
especially in Massachusetts, they don't come easy.
Lex Fridman (40:12.320)
Well message, yeah, that's a whole nother thing.
Joe Rogan (40:14.080)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (40:14.920)
You're saying gun in the home.
Joe Rogan (40:16.400)
Yeah, gun in the home, having a gun,
Lex Fridman (40:18.560)
knowing how to use a gun.
Joe Rogan (40:19.960)
Like I know how to use a gun.
Lex Fridman (40:21.080)
I've trained many hours,
Joe Rogan (40:23.960)
learning how to shoot a gun at tactical places.
Lex Fridman (40:27.240)
There's a bunch of videos of me doing it on Instagram.
Joe Rogan (40:30.800)
I practice and I think it's good to understand
Lex Fridman (40:34.560)
how to be accurate.
Lex Fridman (40:36.160)
So I've been a fan of your podcast for a long time.
Lex Fridman (40:38.880)
You don't often talk about it
Joe Rogan (40:40.800)
because you're always kind of looking forward,
Lex Fridman (40:42.280)
but if you look at the old studio that you just left,
Joe Rogan (40:45.720)
is there some epic memories that stand out to you
Lex Fridman (40:48.960)
that like you almost look back,
Lex Fridman (40:52.000)
I can't believe this happened?
Lex Fridman (40:53.800)
Oh yeah, almost too many of them to count.
Lex Fridman (40:57.000)
Is there something that pops into mind now?
Lex Fridman (40:58.360)
All of them, Elon Musk blowing that flamethrower
Joe Rogan (41:01.320)
in the middle of the hallway, I got a video of that.
Lex Fridman (41:04.320)
Have you seen the video of it?
Joe Rogan (41:05.400)
Yeah, I think you posted it on Instagram.
Lex Fridman (41:06.960)
I think I did too.
Joe Rogan (41:08.080)
Yeah, he's a mad man.
Lex Fridman (41:09.680)
Having Bernie Sanders in there,
Joe Rogan (41:12.560)
just all the fun fight companions we did
Lex Fridman (41:16.160)
and all the crazy podcasts with Joey Diaz
Lex Fridman (41:18.760)
and Duncan Trussell and there were so many.
Lex Fridman (41:21.240)
There were so many moments.
Joe Rogan (41:24.360)
Podcasts, this is a weird art form
Lex Fridman (41:27.720)
and it almost sounds silly,
Lex Fridman (41:30.920)
but it almost seems like something that chose me
Lex Fridman (41:32.800)
rather than I chose it.
Joe Rogan (41:34.480)
I think of that all the time in some strange way.
Lex Fridman (41:36.920)
It's like I'm showing up as like an antenna
Lex Fridman (41:40.400)
and I just plug in and twist on
Lex Fridman (41:43.240)
and then I take in the thing and I put it together
Lex Fridman (41:46.800)
and I'm like a passenger of this weird ride.
Lex Fridman (41:49.840)
Yeah, you've talked about this before.
Joe Rogan (41:51.640)
I really like this idea
Lex Fridman (41:54.920)
that human beings are just carriers of these ideas.
Joe Rogan (41:57.840)
Ideas are the ones who are breeding.
Lex Fridman (41:59.840)
So in a sense like the idea found you as a useful brain
Joe Rogan (42:02.920)
to use to spread itself through the podcasting medium.
Lex Fridman (42:06.560)
Yeah.
Joe Rogan (42:11.400)
Because when I think about your podcast,
Lex Fridman (42:12.640)
I think about Joey Diaz.
Joe Rogan (42:13.800)
I think about all those comedians you've had.
Lex Fridman (42:16.160)
I mean, I think you've had Joey on,
Joe Rogan (42:18.560)
I mean, maybe close to 50 times, some crazy number.
Lex Fridman (42:22.800)
Is there, I mean, he is over the top offensive,
Joe Rogan (42:27.960)
just that's who he is to the core.
Lex Fridman (42:30.600)
Is there some sense where you wondered like
Joe Rogan (42:38.080)
whether it's right to have the Spotify episode number one
Lex Fridman (42:42.040)
with Duncan Dressel for five hours?
Joe Rogan (42:44.720)
No, I wanted to do it that way.
Lex Fridman (42:47.160)
That's why we wore NASA suits and we got high as fuck.
Joe Rogan (42:50.920)
It's like, that's the whole idea behind it.
Lex Fridman (42:53.160)
I mean, can you introspect that a little bit?
Lex Fridman (42:54.800)
Like, can you think, like, what is that?
Lex Fridman (42:56.120)
Cause that's rare.
Joe Rogan (42:57.240)
It's such a rare thing to do because you're not supposed
Lex Fridman (43:03.000)
to talk to Duncan Dressel with a huge platform
Joe Rogan (43:06.680)
that you have five hours.
Lex Fridman (43:08.280)
Why not?
Joe Rogan (43:09.400)
Because Donald Trump apparently watches your podcast.
Lex Fridman (43:12.720)
So just the idea that there's these,
Joe Rogan (43:16.560)
I mean, that's what I think about,
Lex Fridman (43:18.200)
these CEOs write to me that they listen to the podcast
Joe Rogan (43:21.360)
that I do and I have somebody like a David Fravor
Lex Fridman (43:26.280)
and I was nervous about it.
Joe Rogan (43:27.800)
I was nervous to have a conversation.
Lex Fridman (43:29.360)
For me, David Fravor is a Duncan Dressel, which is like.
Joe Rogan (43:33.160)
Just because of his experiences with UFOs.
Lex Fridman (43:36.360)
Yeah, even just the way he sees the world
Joe Rogan (43:39.040)
because he is open.
Lex Fridman (43:40.400)
I don't know if he's always like this,
Lex Fridman (43:41.360)
but he opened himself to the possibility
Lex Fridman (43:43.600)
of unconventional ideas.
Joe Rogan (43:45.840)
Most people in the scientific community kind of say,
Lex Fridman (43:48.720)
well, I don't really want to believe anything
Joe Rogan (43:50.400)
that doesn't have a lot of hard evidence.
Lex Fridman (43:52.960)
And so that was to me like a step.
Lex Fridman (43:55.000)
And as the thing somehow becomes more popular,
Lex Fridman (43:58.360)
there becomes this fear of like,
Lex Fridman (44:01.000)
well, should I talk to this person or not?
Lex Fridman (44:04.160)
And I mean, you're an inspiration in saying like,
Joe Rogan (44:06.920)
do whatever the hell you want.
Lex Fridman (44:08.160)
You have to.
Joe Rogan (44:09.720)
First of all, I have what you call fuck you money.
Lex Fridman (44:14.040)
And if you have fuck you money, you don't say fuck you.
Lex Fridman (44:16.160)
What's the point of having the fuck you money?
Lex Fridman (44:18.160)
You're wasting it.
Joe Rogan (44:19.560)
Like you're wasting the position.
Lex Fridman (44:21.040)
Like someone said to me like,
Lex Fridman (44:22.760)
why do you like sports cars so much?
Lex Fridman (44:24.560)
Like how many cars do you have, a bunch of cars?
Joe Rogan (44:26.480)
Because if I was a kid and I said,
Lex Fridman (44:28.680)
hey, if I was that crazy rich famous guy,
Joe Rogan (44:31.320)
like I don't want to have a bunch of cool fucking cars.
Lex Fridman (44:33.920)
Like, so I would do that.
Joe Rogan (44:36.200)
Like, cause not everybody gets to do that.
Lex Fridman (44:39.000)
Like if you're the person that gets to do that,
Joe Rogan (44:40.880)
you're kind of supposed to do it.
Lex Fridman (44:42.600)
Like that's if you want to,
Joe Rogan (44:44.640)
if that really does speak to you.
Lex Fridman (44:46.280)
And, you know, I've talked to you about this before,
Joe Rogan (44:49.480)
muscle cars, specifically ones from the 1960s
Lex Fridman (44:53.400)
and the early seventies.
Joe Rogan (44:54.520)
They speak to me in some weird way, man.
Lex Fridman (44:56.600)
I could just stare at them.
Joe Rogan (44:57.840)
Like I have a 65 Corvette.
Lex Fridman (44:59.480)
I walk around it sometimes at night when no one's around.
Joe Rogan (45:02.400)
I just stare at it.
Lex Fridman (45:03.240)
What's your favorite muscle car?
Joe Rogan (45:05.520)
Like what's your most bad ass late sixties,
Lex Fridman (45:09.400)
the perfect car?
Joe Rogan (45:10.240)
Probably that car.
Lex Fridman (45:11.080)
Probably that 65 Corvette.
Joe Rogan (45:12.520)
Yeah, I walk around it when no one's around.
Lex Fridman (45:15.320)
I think I've driven the 69 Corvette.
Lex Fridman (45:16.960)
Is there a particular year that just?
Lex Fridman (45:19.600)
65 is a generation two.
Joe Rogan (45:22.160)
69 is generation three.
Lex Fridman (45:24.000)
69 is like the, it's even more curvy.
Joe Rogan (45:26.800)
They're both awesome, just awesome in different ways.
Lex Fridman (45:29.520)
But I just love muscle cars for whatever reason.
Lex Fridman (45:33.200)
But the point is like, I like what I like.
Lex Fridman (45:36.120)
And if I can do what I want to do,
Joe Rogan (45:38.120)
I should do what I want to do.
Lex Fridman (45:39.320)
And it's not hurting anybody.
Lex Fridman (45:40.960)
And the thing is like, I would do the Duncan podcast
Lex Fridman (45:43.840)
if no one was listening, right?
Joe Rogan (45:45.800)
If we were just starting to do a podcast together
Lex Fridman (45:48.240)
and no one cared and it got like 2000 views,
Joe Rogan (45:50.800)
which we did for years.
Lex Fridman (45:53.320)
I would do it with Duncan and we would get high
Lex Fridman (45:54.880)
and we'd talk crazy shit about aliens and spaceships
Lex Fridman (45:57.600)
and maybe dude, maybe ideas are living life forms
Lex Fridman (46:00.960)
and they're inside your head.
Lex Fridman (46:01.960)
And that's how things get made.
Joe Rogan (46:02.800)
Man.
Lex Fridman (46:04.040)
Man.
Joe Rogan (46:05.560)
I've just kind of morphed me and him together in that
Lex Fridman (46:08.040)
because the life form idea, life form idea is mine
Joe Rogan (46:11.600)
that I've really, I really think about a lot.
Lex Fridman (46:14.080)
I think about on a technical side, by the way.
Joe Rogan (46:17.040)
When I heard you say that, cause I've been thinking,
Lex Fridman (46:18.920)
I was like, whoa, that's interesting.
Joe Rogan (46:21.360)
It might be, they might be alive
Lex Fridman (46:23.720)
because they, I don't know what the fuck they are,
Lex Fridman (46:25.720)
but when someone has an idea for, you know,
Lex Fridman (46:28.640)
whatever an invention, a toaster,
Lex Fridman (46:30.520)
and then they think about this,
Lex Fridman (46:32.400)
all it need is like these heating elements and a spring
Lex Fridman (46:35.320)
and then it pops on the stunts, have a timer.
Lex Fridman (46:37.800)
And then they build this thing.
Joe Rogan (46:39.240)
Now all of a sudden it's alive.
Lex Fridman (46:40.720)
It's like you manifested it in a physical form.
Joe Rogan (46:43.400)
Toaster is not the best example, but a car, an airplane,
Lex Fridman (46:47.400)
you're thinking about a thing,
Joe Rogan (46:49.080)
like an idea comes into your head and you can say,
Lex Fridman (46:51.920)
oh, well, it's just creativity.
Joe Rogan (46:53.360)
It's a part of being a person.
Lex Fridman (46:54.400)
That's how we invented tools
Lex Fridman (46:56.120)
and how, you know, we became better hunters.
Lex Fridman (46:58.640)
All those things are true.
Joe Rogan (47:00.360)
I'm not saying that there's some magic to what I'm saying,
Lex Fridman (47:04.400)
but there's also a possibility
Joe Rogan (47:07.040)
that we're simplifying something
Lex Fridman (47:09.640)
by saying that it's just creativity,
Joe Rogan (47:11.640)
that it's just a natural human inclination to invent things.
Lex Fridman (47:15.120)
But why?
Joe Rogan (47:17.040)
Is it possible that ideas like creativity,
Lex Fridman (47:20.680)
like we are the only animal other than,
Joe Rogan (47:23.160)
there's a few species that create things
Lex Fridman (47:25.720)
like bees make beehives and, but it's very,
Joe Rogan (47:28.400)
they're very uniform, you know, some animals use tools,
Lex Fridman (47:32.160)
you know, like, you know,
Joe Rogan (47:33.120)
champs will use like sticks to get termites
Lex Fridman (47:35.720)
and things like that.
Lex Fridman (47:36.560)
But there's something about what we do
Lex Fridman (47:39.520)
that's, it makes you wonder.
Joe Rogan (47:41.840)
Cause we look at the, just look at this room that we're in,
Lex Fridman (47:44.640)
look at all these electronics,
Joe Rogan (47:46.400)
look at all this crazy shit that human beings have invented
Lex Fridman (47:50.280)
and then built upon others inventions
Lex Fridman (47:52.400)
and proved and innovated.
Lex Fridman (47:54.960)
These all came out of ideas.
Joe Rogan (47:57.080)
Like the idea, it germinates in someone's head,
Lex Fridman (48:02.240)
it bounces around, they write it down,
Joe Rogan (48:04.160)
they share it with others,
Lex Fridman (48:05.520)
the other people who have similar ideas
Joe Rogan (48:07.440)
or ideas that are complimentary, they work together
Lex Fridman (48:10.040)
and they change the world.
Lex Fridman (48:12.520)
And the new thing in that is the idea is not the people.
Lex Fridman (48:15.120)
It's like, we think we found the ideas,
Lex Fridman (48:17.000)
but it's more like the ideas found us.
Lex Fridman (48:19.560)
Find you, yeah.
Joe Rogan (48:20.480)
They're literally in the air.
Lex Fridman (48:23.640)
They come to you.
Joe Rogan (48:24.480)
I always felt like that with bits.
Lex Fridman (48:26.040)
Like when I come up with a bit,
Joe Rogan (48:27.960)
that's why I'm always telling people
Lex Fridman (48:29.800)
about the Steven Pressfield book, The War of Art,
Joe Rogan (48:32.680)
because he talks about respecting the muse
Lex Fridman (48:35.440)
and the idea that your ideas come when you sit down
Lex Fridman (48:40.080)
and you do the work or you sit down like a professional
Lex Fridman (48:42.400)
and you talk to the muse,
Joe Rogan (48:44.080)
like come tell me what to do.
Lex Fridman (48:45.760)
Like if the muse was a real thing,
Joe Rogan (48:47.760)
as if the muse is like some mystical creature
Lex Fridman (48:50.960)
that comes and delivers you ideas.
Joe Rogan (48:53.640)
Even if that's not real, that's how it works.
Lex Fridman (48:56.760)
It does work like that.
Joe Rogan (48:57.880)
If you do treat it like it's a muse
Lex Fridman (49:00.120)
and you treat it with the respect
Lex Fridman (49:01.600)
and you treat it like a professional,
Lex Fridman (49:03.720)
the ideas do come to you.
Joe Rogan (49:05.080)
I never thought about what he's doing
Lex Fridman (49:06.400)
is just sitting there waiting for the idea
Joe Rogan (49:08.880)
that's trying to breed to find him.
Lex Fridman (49:11.000)
Yeah.
Joe Rogan (49:11.840)
That's a trippy thing.
Lex Fridman (49:13.320)
If you show up. That's trippy.
Joe Rogan (49:14.800)
If you show up and put in the time
Lex Fridman (49:16.600)
and focus your energy on that,
Joe Rogan (49:19.080)
the ideas, they will arrive, they will arrive.
Lex Fridman (49:23.440)
And that's the same with writing comedy.
Joe Rogan (49:25.480)
Like there's been many, many times
Lex Fridman (49:26.880)
where I'll come home from the comedy store
Lex Fridman (49:28.600)
and I just sit down and I start writing
Lex Fridman (49:30.440)
and I just, I got nothing, there's nothing there.
Joe Rogan (49:32.840)
I'm just writing, it's all bullshit.
Lex Fridman (49:35.160)
Nothing's good, it's just like, hmm.
Lex Fridman (49:37.440)
And then all of a sudden, bam, there's the idea.
Lex Fridman (49:40.600)
And then all of a sudden I can't stop.
Lex Fridman (49:43.480)
And then, you know, it was a couple hours later
Lex Fridman (49:45.200)
and I'm like, whoa.
Lex Fridman (49:46.280)
And then the next night I'm on stage
Lex Fridman (49:47.680)
and I'm like, how about that?
Joe Rogan (49:49.720)
Boom, it gets this big laugh.
Lex Fridman (49:51.280)
I'm like, holy shit.
Lex Fridman (49:52.760)
And I know that came out of the discipline
Lex Fridman (49:55.440)
to sit down and call the muse.
Joe Rogan (49:57.640)
I mean, the cool thing is the ideas have found you
Lex Fridman (50:01.200)
to like, oh, I'm gonna use this dude.
Joe Rogan (50:03.800)
Like he seems to have a podcast that's popular.
Lex Fridman (50:06.520)
I'm gonna breed inside his brain and spread it to others.
Joe Rogan (50:10.200)
It's the same as.
Lex Fridman (50:11.880)
Or an inventor, you know, I'm gonna use this guy
Joe Rogan (50:13.960)
who's like desperately seeking some sort of a product
Lex Fridman (50:16.880)
to bring to market.
Joe Rogan (50:17.720)
Some guy who wants to invent things,
Lex Fridman (50:19.120)
is thinking about inventing things all the time.
Joe Rogan (50:21.400)
These ideas, they weasel their way into your head.
Lex Fridman (50:24.120)
And it seems to me also that the frequency
Joe Rogan (50:28.920)
that your mind operates under has to be correct.
Lex Fridman (50:32.880)
Because one of the things about creativity seems to be
Joe Rogan (50:34.920)
if you think about yourself a lot,
Lex Fridman (50:36.880)
if you're really into yourself or your image
Joe Rogan (50:40.120)
or you're selfish, those ideas are not,
Lex Fridman (50:44.000)
they don't find you.
Joe Rogan (50:45.520)
Yeah, it's funny.
Lex Fridman (50:46.360)
It stifles the creative.
Joe Rogan (50:48.240)
Yeah, it stifles the opportunity
Lex Fridman (50:50.600)
that the idea has to find you.
Joe Rogan (50:52.280)
Yes, which is one of the reasons why joke thieves,
Lex Fridman (50:54.960)
people that steal jokes are terrible writers.
Joe Rogan (50:57.520)
There's never like really good writers
Lex Fridman (50:58.800)
who are also joke thieves.
Joe Rogan (51:00.360)
It's just joke thieves.
Lex Fridman (51:02.280)
And then, you know, when they have to write on their own,
Joe Rogan (51:04.960)
if they get exposed, they become terrible comedians.
Lex Fridman (51:08.040)
They're a shadow of what they were
Joe Rogan (51:11.160)
when they were stealing other people's ideas.
Lex Fridman (51:12.960)
Because the thing that would make you steal
Joe Rogan (51:14.840)
a person's idea is that ego part,
Lex Fridman (51:17.880)
the like the wanting to claim it for yourself,
Joe Rogan (51:20.320)
the wanting to be the man or the woman.
Lex Fridman (51:23.040)
You know, I wanna be the person who gets out there
Lex Fridman (51:24.760)
and says it and everybody's gonna love me for it.
Lex Fridman (51:27.400)
Like you can't think like that and be creative.
Joe Rogan (51:30.760)
It requires a humility and it requires a detachment
Lex Fridman (51:34.920)
from self in order to create.
Joe Rogan (51:36.760)
Like when I'm writing, I'm blank.
Lex Fridman (51:39.320)
I'm like, I'm just staring.
Joe Rogan (51:40.720)
I'm like, I'm just the part of my mind
Lex Fridman (51:43.160)
that's active is not like me.
Joe Rogan (51:45.880)
It's like this weird core function part
Lex Fridman (51:49.160)
where I'm not aware of my personality.
Joe Rogan (51:53.680)
I'm not aware of any of that.
Lex Fridman (51:56.040)
I'm just trying to put it together
Joe Rogan (51:58.120)
in a way that I know works.
Lex Fridman (52:00.240)
It's just being there, being present.
Joe Rogan (52:01.920)
Pressfield is just, I'm a big believer just sitting there
Lex Fridman (52:05.160)
and staring at a blank page, putting in the time.
Joe Rogan (52:08.200)
Yeah, and sometimes it's not that way.
Lex Fridman (52:10.200)
Sometimes it's an inspiration.
Joe Rogan (52:11.480)
Like sometimes I'll be sitting there at dinner
Lex Fridman (52:13.480)
and I'll be like, I got an idea.
Lex Fridman (52:15.320)
And my wife's really cool about that.
Lex Fridman (52:16.960)
I'm like, I have an idea and I blah, blah, blah.
Joe Rogan (52:19.160)
I have to just run out of the room real quick
Lex Fridman (52:20.680)
and I write it down on my phone and then I can come back.
Joe Rogan (52:23.680)
Because those are like little gifts
Lex Fridman (52:25.880)
that you get sometimes from the universe out of nowhere.
Lex Fridman (52:28.440)
And some people rely only on those gifts, you know?
Lex Fridman (52:31.880)
And I've talked to comics about it.
Joe Rogan (52:33.160)
They're like, oh, I can't come up with my best ideas
Lex Fridman (52:35.320)
when I don't write.
Lex Fridman (52:36.160)
And I'm like, no, I do too.
Lex Fridman (52:37.520)
I come up with great ideas when I don't write,
Lex Fridman (52:39.200)
but I also write.
Lex Fridman (52:40.560)
Like you can do both of those things.
Joe Rogan (52:41.920)
They're not mutually exclusive.
Lex Fridman (52:44.760)
You mentioned fuck you money.
Joe Rogan (52:46.920)
I feel like I have fuck you money now.
Lex Fridman (52:49.360)
A year ago I was at zero, I have fuck you money now
Joe Rogan (52:52.080)
because probably my standard is my,
Lex Fridman (52:54.560)
I don't need much in this world.
Lex Fridman (52:57.000)
But because also, probably because of you,
Lex Fridman (53:00.200)
but it's 300 to 400,000 people.
Joe Rogan (53:02.840)
This isn't every episode I do.
Lex Fridman (53:04.680)
And that is weird.
Joe Rogan (53:07.040)
It's definitely.
Lex Fridman (53:07.880)
That's a successful television show on cable.
Joe Rogan (53:09.320)
Yeah, it's crazy.
Lex Fridman (53:10.360)
It's all you.
Joe Rogan (53:11.200)
Yeah, it's hilarious.
Lex Fridman (53:12.520)
That's amazing.
Lex Fridman (53:13.360)
But at this point, that also resulted in
Lex Fridman (53:16.600)
a few money in a sense that I don't,
Joe Rogan (53:20.800)
I don't need anything else in this world.
Lex Fridman (53:22.160)
But so by way of asking, I've looked up,
Joe Rogan (53:26.080)
you've inspired me for a long time.
Lex Fridman (53:28.560)
Do you have advice?
Joe Rogan (53:29.840)
You've done this on the podcast side of life.
Lex Fridman (53:33.640)
Do you have advice for somebody like,
Lex Fridman (53:36.000)
for me and somebody like me going on this journey?
Lex Fridman (53:40.400)
Eric Weinstein is going on this journey.
Joe Rogan (53:43.280)
Is there advice, both small and big,
Lex Fridman (53:47.440)
that you have for somebody like me?
Joe Rogan (53:50.240)
The advice is to keep doing what feels right to you
Lex Fridman (53:53.400)
and do what you're doing.
Joe Rogan (53:54.960)
Obviously, it's resonating with people
Lex Fridman (53:56.920)
if you're getting that big of an audience.
Lex Fridman (53:58.440)
And I've listened to your podcast.
Lex Fridman (53:59.720)
You're very good at it.
Lex Fridman (54:00.760)
So just keep doing it the way you're doing it.
Lex Fridman (54:04.160)
Don't let anybody else get involved.
Lex Fridman (54:06.680)
What about, you've connected,
Lex Fridman (54:08.920)
I think you met Jamie at the Comedy Store.
Joe Rogan (54:11.080)
I met him at the Ice House.
Lex Fridman (54:12.480)
At the Ice House?
Joe Rogan (54:13.320)
Ice House.
Lex Fridman (54:14.160)
Well, I think I met him at the Comedy Store,
Lex Fridman (54:15.000)
but then we talked at the Ice House.
Lex Fridman (54:17.000)
I mean, what?
Joe Rogan (54:17.840)
You'd have to ask him.
Lex Fridman (54:18.680)
Yeah, did you think deeply about,
Joe Rogan (54:20.560)
because you basically have nobody on your team.
Lex Fridman (54:25.200)
And so it almost feels like a marriage.
Joe Rogan (54:27.800)
Were you selective about somebody
Lex Fridman (54:32.200)
to bring into your little circle?
Joe Rogan (54:34.240)
Well, Jamie's exceptional.
Lex Fridman (54:35.920)
He is.
Joe Rogan (54:36.760)
He's a special.
Lex Fridman (54:38.160)
I mean, he might've grown.
Joe Rogan (54:39.000)
I don't remember how he was in the early days.
Lex Fridman (54:40.640)
Maybe you could say, but he's grown.
Joe Rogan (54:42.160)
He's definitely better at it,
Lex Fridman (54:43.320)
but right away, he's exceptional.
Joe Rogan (54:45.400)
He's got very little ego.
Lex Fridman (54:47.920)
Yes.
Joe Rogan (54:48.760)
He's not a guy who needs a lot of attention.
Lex Fridman (54:50.960)
He's not a guy who overestimates anything.
Joe Rogan (54:55.960)
Like in terms of like a negative or positive,
Lex Fridman (54:59.560)
like his interpretation of whether it's good things
Joe Rogan (55:05.200)
that happen to the show or bad things that happen to the show,
Lex Fridman (55:07.520)
he just takes it all like flat.
Joe Rogan (55:10.080)
He's chill.
Lex Fridman (55:11.440)
He's just cool as fuck.
Lex Fridman (55:12.600)
And he's so smart.
Lex Fridman (55:14.280)
And he's so good as an audio engineer
Lex Fridman (55:16.400)
and as a podcast producer, he's the best.
Lex Fridman (55:19.120)
But he's basically one of the only people
Joe Rogan (55:20.560)
on this whole team.
Lex Fridman (55:21.400)
So how do you find, I mean,
Joe Rogan (55:24.520)
when you let people in,
Lex Fridman (55:28.280)
I mean, I'm sure other people wanted to get involved.
Joe Rogan (55:29.880)
Like, why don't you have a cohost that could,
Lex Fridman (55:32.120)
you basically kind of, well.
Joe Rogan (55:34.440)
Well, here's the problem with the cohost.
Lex Fridman (55:36.280)
Like when you and I are talking,
Joe Rogan (55:37.960)
when we're talking, I'm tuned in to you
Lex Fridman (55:41.320)
and I'm waiting to hear what you're saying
Lex Fridman (55:44.320)
and I'm listening and I'm interpreting it.
Lex Fridman (55:46.440)
And then I'm calculating whether or not
Joe Rogan (55:48.800)
I have anything to say, whether to let you keep talking,
Lex Fridman (55:52.600)
whether I maybe have a question that lets you expand further
Joe Rogan (55:56.120)
or whether I have a disagreement
Lex Fridman (55:58.440)
or like there's a dance that's going on.
Joe Rogan (56:00.920)
Now, when there's another person there chiming in too,
Lex Fridman (56:04.080)
it fucks the dance up.
Joe Rogan (56:05.400)
It's like dancing.
Lex Fridman (56:06.360)
Like if you're doing a dance with someone,
Joe Rogan (56:09.560)
like if you're slow dancing with someone
Lex Fridman (56:11.760)
and then a third person's there
Joe Rogan (56:13.240)
stepping on everybody's feet.
Lex Fridman (56:15.040)
Sometimes it's fun.
Joe Rogan (56:16.440)
Sometimes having a third person is fun.
Lex Fridman (56:18.080)
Comedy podcasts, sometimes it's fun.
Joe Rogan (56:20.480)
Fight companions, yeah, debate structures.
Lex Fridman (56:23.080)
But even then it gets difficult
Joe Rogan (56:24.440)
because people talk over each other.
Lex Fridman (56:25.800)
And also I find that without headphones,
Joe Rogan (56:30.480)
it's way easier to talk over each other.
Lex Fridman (56:32.960)
You make mistakes.
Joe Rogan (56:34.160)
You don't hear it the same way.
Lex Fridman (56:36.080)
When you have headphones, I hear what you hear.
Joe Rogan (56:38.760)
It's all one sound and the audience hears exactly,
Lex Fridman (56:43.680)
or rather I hear exactly what the audience hears.
Joe Rogan (56:46.720)
Whether it's over here, my voice is louder than yours
Lex Fridman (56:50.240)
because you're over there.
Lex Fridman (56:51.280)
And if I don't have headphones on, it doesn't,
Lex Fridman (56:53.280)
it's not all together.
Joe Rogan (56:54.360)
On that point, one of the interesting things about your show
Lex Fridman (56:57.960)
is you don't almost never have done,
Lex Fridman (57:01.120)
and you just generally don't do remote,
Lex Fridman (57:03.600)
sorry, not remote calls,
Lex Fridman (57:04.880)
but you don't go to another person's location.
Lex Fridman (57:08.640)
We have only done a few, a small handful.
Lex Fridman (57:10.480)
And just like with Sapolsky, he should do this.
Lex Fridman (57:13.880)
But I actually, we went back and forth on email.
Joe Rogan (57:16.200)
I told him he needs to get his ass back in this studio.
Lex Fridman (57:20.320)
He's working on a book.
Joe Rogan (57:21.480)
I was a fan of his a long time ago
Lex Fridman (57:23.680)
because I became obsessed with toxoplasmosis.
Lex Fridman (57:27.160)
And I've reached out to him a long time ago
Lex Fridman (57:31.440)
before he was willing to do it.
Lex Fridman (57:33.320)
But then I caught him in downtown LA.
Lex Fridman (57:35.720)
He was there for something else.
Lex Fridman (57:36.680)
And I just greedily snatched up an hour of his time.
Lex Fridman (57:40.520)
Well, he doesn't get, I think, some of those folks
Joe Rogan (57:42.720)
don't get how much magic can happen in this podcast studio.
Lex Fridman (57:45.520)
Like bigger than anything they've ever done
Joe Rogan (57:48.440)
in terms of their work.
Lex Fridman (57:49.920)
I'm not talking about reach,
Lex Fridman (57:51.080)
but in terms of the discovery of new ideas,
Lex Fridman (57:54.000)
there's something magical about conversation.
Joe Rogan (57:56.000)
Like somebody as brilliant as him,
Lex Fridman (58:00.040)
if he gives himself over to the conversation
Joe Rogan (58:03.040)
for multiple hours at a time,
Lex Fridman (58:04.680)
that's another place where you've been an inspiration.
Joe Rogan (58:06.920)
Where I'm getting more and more confidence
Lex Fridman (58:10.920)
of telling people, like in Elon Musk,
Joe Rogan (58:13.800)
that a lot of CEOs are like,
Lex Fridman (58:16.440)
well, he has 30 minutes on his schedule.
Joe Rogan (58:19.080)
I'm like, no, three hours.
Lex Fridman (58:22.200)
And then they're like, so some say no,
Lex Fridman (58:27.720)
and then they come back.
Lex Fridman (58:28.560)
There's people that started coming back to like,
Joe Rogan (58:30.280)
okay, we're starting to get it.
Lex Fridman (58:32.360)
They start to get it.
Lex Fridman (58:33.680)
And you're a rare beacon of hope in that sense
Lex Fridman (58:36.960)
that there's some value in long form.
Joe Rogan (58:39.120)
They think that nobody wants to listen
Lex Fridman (58:41.400)
for more than 30 minutes.
Joe Rogan (58:43.520)
They think like, I have nothing to say.
Lex Fridman (58:45.720)
But the reality is if you just give yourself over
Joe Rogan (58:49.360)
to like the three hours, just let it go,
Lex Fridman (58:52.280)
three hours, four hours, whatever it is,
Joe Rogan (58:54.560)
there's so much to discover
Lex Fridman (58:56.120)
about what you didn't even know you think.
Joe Rogan (58:58.520)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (58:59.520)
Yeah, you have to be confident that you could do it.
Lex Fridman (59:02.320)
And in the beginning, I just did it
Lex Fridman (59:05.320)
because that's what I wanted to do.
Lex Fridman (59:07.320)
And no one was listening.
Lex Fridman (59:08.680)
So I've always been a curious person.
Lex Fridman (59:12.280)
So I've always been interested in listening
Lex Fridman (59:16.720)
to how people think about things
Lex Fridman (59:18.160)
and talking to people about their mindset
Lex Fridman (59:21.720)
and just expanding on my own ideas, just talking shit.
Lex Fridman (59:26.360)
And so we would have these podcasts
Lex Fridman (59:28.400)
and they would go on forever.
Lex Fridman (59:29.400)
And my friend Ari, I never let this die down.
Lex Fridman (59:35.480)
Never let him forget this.
Joe Rogan (59:37.000)
He was always like, you have to edit your podcast.
Lex Fridman (59:38.600)
I'm telling you right now, you're fucking up.
Lex Fridman (59:40.160)
I go, why?
Lex Fridman (59:41.440)
He's like, because people are not gonna listen to it.
Joe Rogan (59:43.000)
I go, they don't have to.
Lex Fridman (59:44.640)
Yeah.
Joe Rogan (59:45.480)
I go, you listen to part of it.
Lex Fridman (59:46.320)
He goes, just do it.
Joe Rogan (59:47.760)
Just, I'm telling you, trust me,
Lex Fridman (59:49.400)
cut it down to like 45 minutes.
Joe Rogan (59:50.800)
That's all you need.
Lex Fridman (59:51.840)
And I'm like, no, no, I don't think you're right.
Joe Rogan (59:54.280)
I go, I like listening to long form things.
Lex Fridman (59:56.560)
No one has that kind of time.
Joe Rogan (59:57.920)
I go, okay, I'm just gonna keep doing it this way, so.
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