Will Sasso: Comedy, MADtv, AI, Friendship, Madness, and Pro Wrestling

Lex Fridman (01:06.760)

You wore a black suit in a recent episode of Doodzee.

Will Sasso (01:10.720)

Yes.

Lex Fridman (01:13.320)

You wore a black suit again today.

Will Sasso (01:15.320)

Shakespeare, then Mark Twain, said clothes make the man.

Lex Fridman (01:20.000)

What kind of man does a suit make you?

Will Sasso (01:22.320)

Well, me in particular, it makes me a fellow

Lex Fridman (01:25.360)

who did not get this dry cleaned in between

Will Sasso (01:28.320)

because that episode of the show as we sit here now

Lex Fridman (01:30.920)

was around a week ago.

Lex Fridman (01:32.560)

So that's the kind of man it makes me.

Lex Fridman (01:35.160)

Well, the nice thing is you're wearing pants, I think.

Will Sasso (01:38.360)

Yes, I am wearing pants.

Lex Fridman (01:39.200)

I don't think you were wearing pants in the episode.

Will Sasso (01:41.400)

That's correct.

Lex Fridman (01:42.240)

I prefer to wear shorts, but this was a special occasion

Lex Fridman (01:45.120)

so I'm wearing pants and I thought it fitting, obviously,

Lex Fridman (01:48.520)

to just wear the black tie.

Lex Fridman (01:51.120)

And clothes do make the man.

Lex Fridman (01:53.020)

And I would not consider myself to be a man of leisure,

Lex Fridman (01:56.960)

but I do enjoy shorts because my legs get hot.

Lex Fridman (02:00.920)

So that's what kind of man the shorts make me.

Lex Fridman (02:02.840)

How often do you wear a suit?

Lex Fridman (02:03.960)

I fucking hate wearing suits.

Lex Fridman (02:05.480)

So what is this, a statement of, is it ironic?

Lex Fridman (02:09.120)

Or are you honoring the gods of this particular podcast?

Will Sasso (02:12.080)

I'm honoring the gods of this particular podcast

Lex Fridman (02:14.080)

would be a good way to put it.

Will Sasso (02:15.240)

Yes, no, this is in reverence of and in dedication to you

Lex Fridman (02:19.840)

and our newfound friendship here,

Will Sasso (02:21.880)

which we are making on the podcast.

Lex Fridman (02:26.000)

You and I just met.

Will Sasso (02:27.400)

Everything that we're saying here

Lex Fridman (02:28.560)

is the first things that we're saying to each other.

Lex Fridman (02:31.120)

So I'm meeting you on common ground dressed like.

Lex Fridman (02:33.800)

Well, I've been actually a one way friend of yours

Will Sasso (02:36.160)

for many, many years since Mad TV.

Lex Fridman (02:38.160)

Oh.

Lex Fridman (02:39.140)

When did you start on Mad TV?

Lex Fridman (02:40.320)

So that was, I mean, in 90s?

Will Sasso (02:42.280)

97, yeah.

Lex Fridman (02:43.100)

97.

Lex Fridman (02:44.020)

So I was a huge fan of yours and the cast was incredible.

Lex Fridman (02:46.640)

It was one of the funniest shows ever created.

Will Sasso (02:49.000)

Your whole journey watching through that

Lex Fridman (02:51.000)

was incredible from Mad TV to Three Stooges

Will Sasso (02:53.200)

to the podcasts, the 10 Minute Pod

Lex Fridman (02:57.040)

and then the new podcast is incredible.

Will Sasso (03:00.360)

Cheers.

Lex Fridman (03:01.200)

My favorite role that you played

Will Sasso (03:02.760)

was the mountain in the Game of Thrones.

Lex Fridman (03:05.880)

What was it like working with dragons?

Will Sasso (03:08.080)

Well, the dragons are usually tennis balls

Lex Fridman (03:11.000)

on the end of C stands, but sometimes they hang out.

Will Sasso (03:17.340)

I am.

Lex Fridman (03:18.180)

It's a C stand.

Will Sasso (03:19.000)

It's like, you know, it's like a little,

Lex Fridman (03:20.080)

like the thing you got the camera on here.

Will Sasso (03:21.640)

Oh, this is like film lingo.

Lex Fridman (03:22.980)

Yeah, no, I understand.

Will Sasso (03:23.960)

I'm trying to impress you with my film lingo.

Lex Fridman (03:25.680)

You know what a banana is?

Will Sasso (03:27.320)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (03:28.160)

It's when you walk like this.

Will Sasso (03:29.000)

Oh.

Lex Fridman (03:29.840)

Do a banana.

Will Sasso (03:30.660)

I take it back.

Lex Fridman (03:31.500)

I did not know what a banana was.

Lex Fridman (03:32.340)

Yeah, see?

Lex Fridman (03:33.180)

I misunderstood.

Will Sasso (03:34.160)

Yeah, cause it's just a food.

Lex Fridman (03:35.880)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (03:36.720)

Normally.

Lex Fridman (03:37.560)

You fancy Hollywood folk with a lingo.

Lex Fridman (03:40.080)

And I'm, my name is Bjorn Hapthor Bjornsson

Lex Fridman (03:44.240)

and I am seven foot four and yeah.

Lex Fridman (03:47.040)

So dragons don't, dragons don't scare me

Lex Fridman (03:49.240)

even though they've been extinct for a while.

Lex Fridman (03:51.600)

You're a scientist, right?

Lex Fridman (03:52.920)

Is that checkout?

Will Sasso (03:54.160)

Yeah, I actually, I'm really into video games.

Lex Fridman (03:56.600)

I don't know if you play video games.

Will Sasso (03:57.640)

There's a, there's a Skyrim video game

Lex Fridman (04:01.720)

that's part of the Elder Scrolls series.

Lex Fridman (04:03.320)

And for the longest time,

Lex Fridman (04:04.400)

there's a legend that there's dragons.

Will Sasso (04:06.440)

I think it started in Daggerfall.

Lex Fridman (04:07.800)

And so I always, I grew up playing those video games

Lex Fridman (04:10.500)

and dreaming of one day meeting a dragon in a virtual world.

Lex Fridman (04:14.160)

And eventually you did in Skyrim.

Lex Fridman (04:16.840)

So it's, dragons represent,

Lex Fridman (04:19.760)

I don't know exactly what they represent,

Lex Fridman (04:21.120)

but they represent maybe this kind of mythical creature

Lex Fridman (04:24.560)

that is bigger than anything humans

Will Sasso (04:27.960)

can possibly comprehend maybe.

Lex Fridman (04:30.880)

Cause they're so, they're so, they show up so often in myth

Will Sasso (04:33.960)

from the, from the religious stories, you know,

Lex Fridman (04:37.640)

of the snake and so on, the serpent.

Lex Fridman (04:39.280)

And I don't know what that is.

Lex Fridman (04:40.920)

Well, this breathing fire, that's kind of weird.

Will Sasso (04:42.680)

It's interesting when I think about dragons,

Lex Fridman (04:44.240)

cause now that you bring it up,

Will Sasso (04:45.480)

these are people that probably wouldn't have access

Lex Fridman (04:47.440)

to the fact that there used to be dinosaurs.

Will Sasso (04:49.480)

Maybe they did.

Lex Fridman (04:50.840)

If they didn't, they're drawing things that look like,

Will Sasso (04:54.820)

you know, a dinosaur cousin, but cool,

Lex Fridman (04:57.200)

that can breathe fire and has wacky wings and a spiked tail.

Lex Fridman (05:02.680)

Yeah, where the heck did they come up with that?

Lex Fridman (05:04.280)

Cause they're clearly of course represented in mythology

Will Sasso (05:07.200)

all the way back to, no, not cave drawings.

Lex Fridman (05:10.640)

Well, the Egyptians probably knew what the,

Lex Fridman (05:12.560)

and they could time travel.

Lex Fridman (05:13.580)

So they would have gone back to the caves.

Will Sasso (05:15.680)

Well, the aliens that placed living organisms on earth

Lex Fridman (05:20.120)

could time travel and they could plant legends

Will Sasso (05:23.820)

into the, into the collective intelligence

Lex Fridman (05:25.920)

of the human species.

Will Sasso (05:27.520)

Yeah, and perhaps they were thinking of us

Lex Fridman (05:29.400)

to do something smart with it.

Lex Fridman (05:30.600)

And we didn't, we just came up with the sky.

Lex Fridman (05:32.240)

No.

Lex Fridman (05:33.080)

We're just, what's that?

Lex Fridman (05:33.900)

Sorry, that was very offensive.

Will Sasso (05:35.000)

I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you with your video game.

Lex Fridman (05:37.960)

I'm more of a burger time Donkey Kong dude.

Lex Fridman (05:42.640)

Oh, what is that?

Lex Fridman (05:44.040)

That's an original.

Will Sasso (05:45.120)

Burger time was an arcade game that later showed up

Lex Fridman (05:48.320)

on the Intellivision, it was Intellivision.

Will Sasso (05:52.720)

I believe it was made by Texas Instruments,

Lex Fridman (05:54.960)

horrible first generation video game console.

Lex Fridman (05:58.440)

And burger time, you just, it's like Super Mario.

Lex Fridman (06:00.600)

You just got to stay away from the eggs

Lex Fridman (06:03.000)

and the pickles and stuff.

Lex Fridman (06:04.360)

And you just go, and the bun falls.

Lex Fridman (06:07.080)

And then you go down to the and the cheese and then the meat.

Lex Fridman (06:11.160)

I'm not going to say it's as complicated

Will Sasso (06:12.520)

as Skyrim, but took me a while to finish it when I was seven.

Lex Fridman (06:17.840)

Did you play video games, was that a part of your life,

Lex Fridman (06:20.540)

a part of the source of happiness for you at all?

Lex Fridman (06:22.960)

It was, it was.

Will Sasso (06:24.040)

I played video games up until around, I think in 2010,

Lex Fridman (06:28.840)

I got the Red Ring of Death on my Xbox 360.

Lex Fridman (06:31.760)

That was it?

Lex Fridman (06:32.600)

That was it.

Will Sasso (06:33.420)

I never, or whatever the Xbox was then.

Lex Fridman (06:35.200)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (06:36.040)

I had, I was playing, I had finished the Grand Theft Auto

Lex Fridman (06:40.320)

that was out and finished the Red Dead Redemption.

Lex Fridman (06:42.840)

So I was doing that thing where you just drive around,

Lex Fridman (06:46.400)

you know, the streets of New York or just ride around

Will Sasso (06:49.080)

on your horse shooting people and, you know,

Lex Fridman (06:51.500)

throwing grenades into groups of people in Grand Theft.

Lex Fridman (06:55.080)

And you're describing the same thing that happened

Lex Fridman (06:57.600)

a decade later, because it's now Red Dead Redemption 2

Lex Fridman (07:01.160)

and there's still not a new Grand Theft Auto, so.

Lex Fridman (07:03.920)

Yeah, there isn't, right?

Will Sasso (07:05.120)

Yeah, they're working on it.

Lex Fridman (07:06.000)

They're always flirting with that idea.

Lex Fridman (07:07.880)

You know who else plays Skyrim?

Lex Fridman (07:10.100)

Another person, the two people I'm a huge fan of

Will Sasso (07:12.480)

from that time in Matt TV is Bobby Lee.

Lex Fridman (07:14.760)

He plays Skyrim?

Will Sasso (07:15.720)

He's a huge fan of Skyrim.

Lex Fridman (07:16.760)

He plays every.

Lex Fridman (07:17.920)

So what Bobby Lee loves to do is to grind,

Lex Fridman (07:22.440)

do the boring task over and over, gather mushrooms.

Will Sasso (07:25.640)

Like in Skyrim, you can fight dragons,

Lex Fridman (07:27.580)

you can fight all kinds of things,

Lex Fridman (07:29.540)

but you can also gather mushrooms and different ingredients

Lex Fridman (07:31.920)

to make potions and all that kind of stuff.

Will Sasso (07:34.000)

He loves the ingredients.

Lex Fridman (07:35.160)

He's the, you know, in the hunter gatherer world,

Will Sasso (07:37.700)

he's the gatherer.

Lex Fridman (07:38.540)

He's the gatherer.

Will Sasso (07:39.720)

Yeah, I've heard him described that way

Lex Fridman (07:42.400)

and he likes to describe himself that way.

Will Sasso (07:44.520)

I worked with Bobby not too long ago.

Lex Fridman (07:46.600)

He came and did a couple days on this thing we were shooting

Lex Fridman (07:49.200)

and I was looking forward to catching up with my old pal.

Lex Fridman (07:52.280)

And if you know anything about Bobby Lee,

Will Sasso (07:54.260)

you'd probably be able to predict that he spent

Lex Fridman (07:56.160)

that entire time playing farming on his iPad.

Will Sasso (07:59.600)

Well, humans are a source of anxiety and trouble,

Lex Fridman (08:03.080)

so sometimes it's good to escape human interaction

Will Sasso (08:05.400)

through video games.

Lex Fridman (08:06.280)

Totally.

Will Sasso (08:07.120)

I'm with him on that.

Lex Fridman (08:07.960)

He's one of the funniest people ever.

Will Sasso (08:11.120)

Totally.

Lex Fridman (08:11.960)

What do you think makes him funny?

Will Sasso (08:14.560)

It's just all the times you've worked with him,

Lex Fridman (08:16.880)

the nonstandard, nonsecular way of his being.

Will Sasso (08:22.280)

Bobby Lee is one of the most raw people,

Lex Fridman (08:26.880)

raw performers who lets it all hang out

Will Sasso (08:29.800)

to the degree that he will even get naked

Lex Fridman (08:31.680)

in front of his audience,

Will Sasso (08:32.720)

which is usually a metaphor for someone doing standup.

Lex Fridman (08:35.600)

I'm bearing all, I'm showing you everything,

Lex Fridman (08:38.520)

and Bobby will just pull his bird out of his pants.

Lex Fridman (08:40.920)

Yeah, I don't think he understands metaphor too much.

Will Sasso (08:43.200)

He embodies metaphor.

Lex Fridman (08:44.480)

Yes, he embodies metaphor.

Will Sasso (08:46.120)

He's the gatherer, we call him the gathering metaphor.

Lex Fridman (08:49.240)

Bobby the gatherer metaphor.

Will Sasso (08:50.720)

He's a metaphor for something else,

Lex Fridman (08:52.520)

for somebody else's life.

Will Sasso (08:53.920)

Someday he'll be in the dictionary

Lex Fridman (08:57.320)

representing some kind of concept,

Will Sasso (08:58.800)

maybe the metaphor itself.

Lex Fridman (09:00.120)

Yeah, once this whole thing falls apart

Lex Fridman (09:02.480)

and we are climbing the kudzu vines

Lex Fridman (09:04.800)

that spiral up the Sears Tower,

Will Sasso (09:06.240)

like they say in Fight Club,

Lex Fridman (09:07.760)

Bobby will go back to his gatherer form

Lex Fridman (09:09.920)

and be happy as a pig in shit,

Lex Fridman (09:12.080)

just walking around in a loincloth

Will Sasso (09:13.480)

with his bird hanging out,

Lex Fridman (09:14.840)

tracking jokes to people and climbing up on them

Will Sasso (09:17.080)

for a stool lap dance or whatever he does.

Lex Fridman (09:19.400)

I'd love to dig into something he did.

Will Sasso (09:22.080)

You guys did a lot of great podcasts together.

Lex Fridman (09:24.520)

He asked you in a very uncomfortable process

Will Sasso (09:28.440)

of why you don't do standup.

Lex Fridman (09:29.840)

So let me ask you, do you hate money?

Will Sasso (09:33.480)

Well, I'm originally from Canada, yeah.

Lex Fridman (09:36.560)

So yeah, I'm a fricking pinko socialist.

Lex Fridman (09:40.880)

Is that where you come from?

Lex Fridman (09:42.760)

That's not a nice thing to say.

Will Sasso (09:44.520)

I thought the Soviet Union,

Lex Fridman (09:46.480)

that is a nice thing to say.

Will Sasso (09:47.920)

Like comrade, he's a good socialist with red,

Lex Fridman (09:56.240)

like some bold colors, yeah.

Will Sasso (09:58.280)

There was an interesting tension in your voice

Lex Fridman (10:00.320)

and the way you talked about it.

Will Sasso (10:01.400)

There's just not a source of happiness for you.

Lex Fridman (10:04.200)

You respect the art form,

Lex Fridman (10:05.320)

but it was not something that you were connected to,

Lex Fridman (10:08.600)

you felt connected to.

Will Sasso (10:09.600)

That's a good way to put it.

Lex Fridman (10:10.520)

Yeah, I respect the art form a lot.

Lex Fridman (10:14.080)

And I grew up with all the albums and stuff.

Lex Fridman (10:16.160)

I had an older brother and sister who,

Lex Fridman (10:18.520)

so we had George Carlin, we had Richard Pryor,

Lex Fridman (10:23.680)

we had Robert Klein, we had Gilda Live,

Will Sasso (10:26.800)

the Gilda Radner concert, we had all sorts of stuff.

Lex Fridman (10:30.160)

But I don't know, there's a lot of reasons.

Will Sasso (10:33.840)

I do feel like a career in show business

Lex Fridman (10:37.280)

is it never goes the way you plan, like most things.

Lex Fridman (10:41.720)

And I was fortunate enough to get started

Lex Fridman (10:44.000)

outside of my native Vancouver or in my native Vancouver.

Will Sasso (10:47.200)

I grew up in the burbs outside

Lex Fridman (10:48.600)

and there was a lot of industry there.

Lex Fridman (10:50.600)

So I was fortunate enough to get started as an actor

Lex Fridman (10:53.480)

when I was like 16.

Lex Fridman (10:54.720)

So yeah, there were some times early on

Lex Fridman (10:59.720)

where I came up with some standup stuff and did it,

Lex Fridman (11:03.240)

but yeah, I quickly abandoned it.

Lex Fridman (11:06.080)

And then you go through, you do Mad TV and stuff,

Lex Fridman (11:09.760)

and that's where my, and this is gonna sound weird.

Lex Fridman (11:13.200)

Do I sound as anxiety as I did when I was on Bobby's podcast

Lex Fridman (11:16.200)

trying to avoid his questions?

Lex Fridman (11:18.240)

Well, he was giving you this face this whole time

Will Sasso (11:20.320)

that was making the whole just atmosphere feel

Lex Fridman (11:24.320)

full of anxiety.

Lex Fridman (11:25.160)

So I'm trying not to give you a face.

Lex Fridman (11:26.960)

The whole time I was saying, play cool, play cool.

Will Sasso (11:28.880)

Yeah, okay.

Lex Fridman (11:30.200)

Play cool, Lex.

Will Sasso (11:31.040)

Play cool.

Lex Fridman (11:31.880)

You said it out loud a couple of times.

Will Sasso (11:33.320)

I did.

Lex Fridman (11:34.160)

Just, you know, you cut that out.

Will Sasso (11:35.000)

Play cool.

Lex Fridman (11:35.840)

Play cool, dude.

Will Sasso (11:36.680)

Cut out, cut it out.

Lex Fridman (11:37.500)

Maintain, bro.

Will Sasso (11:38.340)

Here's what I'll say.

Lex Fridman (11:39.180)

There's two ways to do it.

Will Sasso (11:40.000)

I think it's lame when someone who's done one thing

Lex Fridman (11:42.040)

for a while goes and starts doing standup out of nowhere.

Will Sasso (11:46.120)

Cause I think it's an art form that's under attack

Lex Fridman (11:49.520)

because it's not like anything else.

Will Sasso (11:51.760)

You need, although now you can of course,

Lex Fridman (11:55.120)

you know, make whatever you want.

Will Sasso (11:56.480)

It's the era of self publishing as far as making a product

Lex Fridman (11:59.680)

and putting it out there, which is getting easier,

Will Sasso (12:01.960)

of course, and I can't wait to talk to you about that

Lex Fridman (12:03.720)

with AI and how it's changing art.

Lex Fridman (12:07.480)

But in standup, all you need is a microphone

Lex Fridman (12:12.480)

and you know, perhaps it'd be good

Will Sasso (12:14.760)

to have some mental illness

Lex Fridman (12:16.240)

and then you can just run up there and talk forever.

Lex Fridman (12:20.200)

And I say this to, you know, comedians.

Lex Fridman (12:22.920)

It's like, you guys have to deal with just

Will Sasso (12:25.260)

an influx of people who aren't sure

Lex Fridman (12:29.700)

why they're doing comedy.

Will Sasso (12:30.960)

I would ask comedians, I mean, not good ones,

Lex Fridman (12:33.640)

good ones, you know what they're doing,

Lex Fridman (12:34.720)

but everyone else like, what are you doing?

Lex Fridman (12:36.040)

Why, why are you doing standup?

Will Sasso (12:38.040)

Having said that, I am allergic to money.

Lex Fridman (12:40.320)

Yeah, do you think they have a good answer for that?

Lex Fridman (12:42.520)

Why are they doing it?

Lex Fridman (12:43.360)

Cause I actually like when I'm in Austin,

Will Sasso (12:45.040)

I like going to open mics, just listening.

Lex Fridman (12:47.600)

It's inspiring to me, both the funny and the unfunny people

Will Sasso (12:52.480)

because they've been doing it for several years.

Lex Fridman (12:55.040)

Sometimes over a decade and they're still at it.

Will Sasso (12:58.080)

They're still right there.

Lex Fridman (12:58.960)

There's going for the punch and then especially open mics

Will Sasso (13:02.200)

that are really sad in that there's, you know,

Lex Fridman (13:05.840)

only like five other people in the audience

Lex Fridman (13:07.960)

and they're usually just other comedians

Lex Fridman (13:10.000)

and they're still going all out

Will Sasso (13:12.000)

as if they're in front of a stadium.

Lex Fridman (13:14.000)

But that to me sounds like someone who loves it.

Will Sasso (13:16.720)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (13:17.560)

I got no questions for that person.

Will Sasso (13:19.240)

I got questions for someone who goes sideways

Lex Fridman (13:21.880)

from here I'm recognizable doing something

Lex Fridman (13:24.700)

and then I'm doing standup because it's like,

Lex Fridman (13:28.040)

and truly look, I've been fortunate enough

Will Sasso (13:30.280)

to be in the business for a long time

Lex Fridman (13:31.520)

and at this point, if I came up,

Will Sasso (13:33.280)

I mean, doing live stuff is fun.

Lex Fridman (13:35.400)

I have friends that are like, you know,

Will Sasso (13:37.960)

some guys who are primarily sketch people

Lex Fridman (13:40.440)

or you would look at them as sketch people

Lex Fridman (13:42.000)

and they can sell tickets for being sketch people

Lex Fridman (13:44.000)

and they, and we'll talk about it.

Lex Fridman (13:45.560)

And they're like, you know, I do a monologue

Lex Fridman (13:47.760)

and I do a little standup, then I do a song,

Will Sasso (13:50.360)

then I do another monologue, then I play off the audience,

Lex Fridman (13:52.840)

do a little standup, but standup is,

Will Sasso (13:57.360)

it's almost like playing music in that,

Lex Fridman (14:01.360)

you know, people are going up there playing music,

Lex Fridman (14:03.120)

but what band have you been listening to?

Lex Fridman (14:04.520)

That's what you're gonna sound like.

Lex Fridman (14:06.380)

So it's really, I mean, of course,

Lex Fridman (14:08.480)

I'm speaking from zero experience,

Lex Fridman (14:10.520)

but I've heard it takes years, of course,

Lex Fridman (14:12.800)

to find your own voice.

Will Sasso (14:14.260)

Standups that when they first go up,

Lex Fridman (14:16.240)

they're doing some sort of impersonation of so and so

Lex Fridman (14:19.880)

and so and so, and then you gotta pop this audience

Lex Fridman (14:23.240)

that's paying and you're gonna get run over

Will Sasso (14:25.660)

by the next person who's coming up

Lex Fridman (14:27.480)

and it's hard to follow the last person

Will Sasso (14:29.820)

who went up before you.

Lex Fridman (14:31.200)

And I mean, that is a really hard way to,

Will Sasso (14:34.560)

it's a very, it's quite a gauntlet

Lex Fridman (14:36.960)

to be in to find your voice comedically.

Lex Fridman (14:38.640)

But don't you have that same kind of thing with sketch?

Lex Fridman (14:40.840)

Where you still have to find your own voice

Will Sasso (14:42.880)

with like all the impressions you do,

Lex Fridman (14:44.840)

they're just terrible, you know,

Will Sasso (14:47.520)

there are different spins and different people,

Lex Fridman (14:49.480)

they're not like perfect impressions, right?

Lex Fridman (14:52.520)

So that's, I mean, that's a similar kind of challenge

Lex Fridman (14:55.880)

and journey as standup.

Will Sasso (14:57.800)

You're just saying they're kind of distinct

Lex Fridman (15:00.200)

and you fell into this one and you fell in love with it,

Will Sasso (15:02.720)

which is like what Mad TV kind of opened you up to.

Lex Fridman (15:05.820)

Yeah, as a kid, I literally wanted to be an actor.

Will Sasso (15:08.440)

I always wanted to be an actor from a very young age,

Lex Fridman (15:11.120)

as far back as I can remember,

Lex Fridman (15:12.400)

and I was the class clown and wanted to do comedy stuff

Lex Fridman (15:15.680)

and comedic acting and so on.

Lex Fridman (15:17.400)

So comedic acting.

Lex Fridman (15:18.320)

Yeah, early on, my influences were a very predictable list

Will Sasso (15:22.920)

of guys from SCTV, Early Saturday Night Live, Monty Python,

Lex Fridman (15:29.940)

all of those performers really influenced me.

Will Sasso (15:32.640)

It was later that I saw people like Kevin Kline,

Lex Fridman (15:36.640)

who's an incredible actor.

Will Sasso (15:38.420)

I vividly remember being like 12, 13,

Lex Fridman (15:41.160)

seeing him get an Academy Award for Fish Called Wanda.

Lex Fridman (15:44.480)

And it blew my mind, because I was like, he was hilarious.

Lex Fridman (15:47.260)

I mean, it was one of my favorite movies back then and now.

Lex Fridman (15:50.400)

And he won an Academy Award.

Lex Fridman (15:52.720)

And at that point, I started thinking more about acting.

Lex Fridman (15:58.080)

And then I was, like I said, really fortunate

Lex Fridman (16:00.480)

to fall in with, I mean, I always wanted to do it

Lex Fridman (16:04.200)

and I was trying to hustle this and that when I was a kid.

Lex Fridman (16:06.560)

And then I ended up getting represented.

Lex Fridman (16:09.520)

And then I ended up on a teen show.

Lex Fridman (16:11.780)

I was on, basically, the easiest way to pitch it

Will Sasso (16:14.620)

is it's like a Canadian, my so called life

Lex Fridman (16:17.680)

with these kids and their lives and stuff.

Lex Fridman (16:19.560)

And I did that for like five years and I really love acting.

Lex Fridman (16:23.560)

I really, truly love acting.

Lex Fridman (16:25.000)

And I'm not someone who wants people to know my opinion.

Lex Fridman (16:30.400)

So that's another thing about standup.

Will Sasso (16:33.240)

Like I love the illusion of what I get to do

Lex Fridman (16:36.040)

in entertainment and podcasting is great for that.

Lex Fridman (16:40.940)

But to stand up there and, I don't know, just for me,

Lex Fridman (16:45.200)

it's like it would have to all be fantasy.

Will Sasso (16:49.640)

Yeah, so Nietzsche said that every profound spirit

Lex Fridman (16:53.120)

needs a mask.

Will Sasso (16:55.360)

Like you said, you don't like to talk about,

Lex Fridman (16:58.480)

in your comedy, you don't like to talk about stuff

Will Sasso (17:01.160)

that's personal to you.

Lex Fridman (17:02.640)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (17:03.660)

What is that?

Lex Fridman (17:04.840)

If you were to psychoanalyze yourself,

Lex Fridman (17:07.240)

do you think it's just not something you find funny

Lex Fridman (17:10.080)

or are you running from something and it's not your fault?

Will Sasso (17:15.920)

Will.

Lex Fridman (17:16.760)

It's not your fault, Will.

Will Sasso (17:18.440)

Speaking of another really great comedic actor

Lex Fridman (17:21.280)

who's also a serious actor, Robin Williams.

Will Sasso (17:23.480)

One of the best serious actors.

Lex Fridman (17:25.360)

I mean, and one of the funniest people of all time,

Lex Fridman (17:30.480)

but as great, as incredible as he was as a funny man,

Lex Fridman (17:35.000)

as a standup and a performer,

Will Sasso (17:37.420)

I almost like his serious stuff better.

Lex Fridman (17:39.760)

Can I ask you a question about that?

Lex Fridman (17:41.200)

What do you make of the, that he committed suicide?

Lex Fridman (17:43.480)

I think it's, I mean, it's super depressing.

Will Sasso (17:47.280)

I've referred to him as like the Jesus Christ of depression.

Lex Fridman (17:52.520)

It's almost like he died for others depression.

Lex Fridman (17:54.480)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (17:55.320)

Like.

Will Sasso (17:56.160)

Yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman (17:56.980)

You'd look at someone like that and go,

Will Sasso (17:58.180)

wait a minute, you're a rockstar.

Lex Fridman (17:59.160)

Like you don't, you could just check out

Will Sasso (18:01.480)

if you're not liking your life.

Lex Fridman (18:03.240)

And of course, something like suicide

Will Sasso (18:05.680)

begs that you look a little deeper

Lex Fridman (18:07.120)

and realize how tortured the human mind can make someone.

Will Sasso (18:12.960)

Is there some aspect to, you know, we're in LA.

Lex Fridman (18:16.040)

Is there some aspect of celebrity that is isolating

Lex Fridman (18:18.960)

that can make you feel really lonely?

Lex Fridman (18:21.280)

Not me.

Will Sasso (18:22.120)

I don't feel, no, not really.

Lex Fridman (18:24.160)

You feel the love?

Will Sasso (18:25.680)

No, I just feel like I'm not, I mean, it's like,

Lex Fridman (18:28.480)

I don't know, I've always kind of had a small group

Will Sasso (18:31.320)

of friends and those people don't, you know,

Lex Fridman (18:34.240)

it's like I've known the same people for years and years.

Will Sasso (18:37.040)

You never really felt the celebrity really.

Lex Fridman (18:38.760)

Nah, in LA, it's hard to, it's hard for people.

Will Sasso (18:42.000)

Nobody cares.

Lex Fridman (18:42.840)

They see you and then the next minute they see so and so.

Lex Fridman (18:45.840)

So it's like, you know, I'm the guy from that.

Lex Fridman (18:50.760)

Mike and Molly, right?

Will Sasso (18:51.760)

Nope, nope.

Lex Fridman (18:52.600)

Close.

Will Sasso (18:53.440)

King of, you shave your head, you go bald.

Lex Fridman (18:56.080)

Are you King of Queens?

Will Sasso (18:57.080)

Nope, that's not me.

Lex Fridman (18:58.820)

So close.

Will Sasso (19:00.780)

You're wow, shit, you used to be the mountain

Lex Fridman (19:03.280)

on Game of Thrones.

Lex Fridman (19:04.720)

You look like shit, what happened?

Lex Fridman (19:06.080)

You've been just eating fried dough?

Will Sasso (19:08.600)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (19:09.440)

Yeah, that's what's up.

Will Sasso (19:11.000)

Can't lift any weights anymore.

Lex Fridman (19:12.400)

I'm at the gym doing like 15 pounds with shoulder press.

Will Sasso (19:16.120)

Ah, and people coming up to me.

Lex Fridman (19:19.280)

You used to be a dragon killer, dude.

Will Sasso (19:21.000)

Half the man you used to be.

Lex Fridman (19:22.920)

What's, have there been low points in your life?

Will Sasso (19:25.840)

Sorry to go there, but.

Lex Fridman (19:28.980)

Yeah, I don't know.

Will Sasso (19:30.220)

Hey, hey, hey.

Lex Fridman (19:31.720)

Eh?

Lex Fridman (19:32.560)

Eh?

Lex Fridman (19:33.380)

Eh?

Will Sasso (19:34.220)

Yeah, there's, everybody has a low point in life.

Lex Fridman (19:38.560)

The operative.

Lex Fridman (19:39.400)

Do you suffer from like depression

Lex Fridman (19:40.280)

and any of those kinds of things?

Will Sasso (19:41.120)

You know what, I do.

Lex Fridman (19:42.200)

I do, I have a bunch of stuff.

Lex Fridman (19:45.800)

How do you deal with it?

Lex Fridman (19:46.760)

Said friends?

Will Sasso (19:47.880)

The friends and the.

Lex Fridman (19:48.700)

They don't do anything for me in that sense.

Will Sasso (19:51.240)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (19:52.080)

I have an incredible fiance who,

Will Sasso (19:55.040)

that's nice to have somebody constant

Lex Fridman (19:58.300)

that you love very much and see as the best person

Lex Fridman (1:00:00.300)

Like why is it so compelling to watch that guy?

Lex Fridman (1:00:04.160)

Because he's a comedic genius.

Will Sasso (1:00:05.440)

Like he literally, he knows what he does.

Lex Fridman (1:00:07.740)

He's been a writer for 50 years or whatever.

Lex Fridman (1:00:10.360)

And he just happens to be that brilliant.

Lex Fridman (1:00:13.520)

I mean, I've gotten a chance just to do,

Will Sasso (1:00:15.880)

I did just an episode of Curb, a small part,

Lex Fridman (1:00:18.760)

and it's crazy what he sees.

Will Sasso (1:00:21.400)

I don't know what he sees.

Lex Fridman (1:00:22.840)

As a matter of fact, so I auditioned for it, for Curb,

Lex Fridman (1:00:26.760)

like, you know, two or three times, right?

Lex Fridman (1:00:28.680)

And never got anything.

Lex Fridman (1:00:29.960)

And then it was only after working with him on the Stooges

Lex Fridman (1:00:32.880)

that I got a call to do a bit part.

Lex Fridman (1:00:35.400)

But I remember auditioning, you go into that room

Lex Fridman (1:00:39.240)

and the guys waiting are all people that you know.

Will Sasso (1:00:43.680)

You're like, oh, I know them, I know her, I know him.

Lex Fridman (1:00:45.940)

And so I went in, I auditioned for this part.

Lex Fridman (1:00:50.300)

And the only thing I know of the thing is like,

Lex Fridman (1:00:53.680)

okay, so you really want to go to this play with me.

Will Sasso (1:00:57.080)

You really want to go to this play.

Lex Fridman (1:00:58.560)

When you hear that I have an extra ticket,

Will Sasso (1:01:01.020)

you sincerely want to think, and I'm like, got it.

Lex Fridman (1:01:03.820)

And so.

Will Sasso (1:01:04.660)

That's the premise.

Lex Fridman (1:01:05.500)

The premise of the scene.

Lex Fridman (1:01:06.320)

And that's all you know.

Lex Fridman (1:01:07.160)

That's all I know.

Lex Fridman (1:01:08.000)

And so he goes, he does his bit

Lex Fridman (1:01:10.320)

and I'm just supposed to come in and interrupt.

Lex Fridman (1:01:11.880)

And I'm like, excuse me, I couldn't help

Lex Fridman (1:01:14.080)

but hear you guys were talking about, you know,

Will Sasso (1:01:16.080)

whatever the play was or, you know, Death of a Salesman.

Lex Fridman (1:01:18.540)

I am, I'm a huge fan of that play.

Will Sasso (1:01:21.400)

I mean, if it's not, if it's not,

Lex Fridman (1:01:22.920)

if you're looking for someone to take a ticket,

Will Sasso (1:01:24.320)

I would love to go.

Lex Fridman (1:01:26.240)

My name's so and so, by the way.

Lex Fridman (1:01:27.480)

And he goes, I'm going to stop you.

Lex Fridman (1:01:29.040)

I'm going to stop you.

Lex Fridman (1:01:29.860)

And I'm like, he goes, are you really?

Lex Fridman (1:01:33.000)

I mean, you truly want to go to this play.

Lex Fridman (1:01:35.160)

And I go, yes, yes, sir.

Lex Fridman (1:01:36.960)

You really want to go.

Will Sasso (1:01:38.420)

You actually, this is, you would love to do this.

Lex Fridman (1:01:41.480)

I go, okay, let's try it again.

Lex Fridman (1:01:44.240)

So then he's like, no, no, no.

Lex Fridman (1:01:45.080)

And I go, hey, excuse me, I'm sorry.

Will Sasso (1:01:47.120)

I don't mean to interrupt.

Lex Fridman (1:01:47.940)

I was just, I couldn't help it over here.

Will Sasso (1:01:50.560)

You have tickets to the thing.

Lex Fridman (1:01:52.320)

I am the biggest fan of that.

Will Sasso (1:01:54.060)

I do the same thing.

Lex Fridman (1:01:55.040)

I'm going to stop you again.

Will Sasso (1:01:56.520)

Okay.

Lex Fridman (1:01:58.140)

I mean, you really want to go to this.

Lex Fridman (1:01:59.840)

And I'm just like, he's fucking with me, right?

Lex Fridman (1:02:02.320)

I remember Jeff Garland was sitting there in the audition.

Will Sasso (1:02:04.240)

He goes, he did it.

Lex Fridman (1:02:05.160)

He said it.

Lex Fridman (1:02:06.000)

What?

Lex Fridman (1:02:06.820)

Shut up.

Will Sasso (1:02:07.660)

Hold on, listen.

Lex Fridman (1:02:08.480)

You really want to go.

Will Sasso (1:02:09.320)

Okay.

Lex Fridman (1:02:10.140)

Three, four times, you know, there I am.

Will Sasso (1:02:12.360)

I couldn't help but notice it.

Lex Fridman (1:02:13.560)

And then I do it again.

Will Sasso (1:02:15.440)

I guess I shit the bed.

Lex Fridman (1:02:16.400)

Cause he looks at me and he just goes, okay, all right.

Will Sasso (1:02:20.120)

Okay, well, thanks for coming up.

Lex Fridman (1:02:21.960)

And that was it.

Lex Fridman (1:02:22.800)

And I didn't get it.

Lex Fridman (1:02:23.620)

So I still, I don't know what the heck that guy's thinking.

Will Sasso (1:02:25.680)

He sees, he's in the matrix.

Lex Fridman (1:02:27.960)

I don't know what the heck Larry David sees.

Lex Fridman (1:02:30.440)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (1:02:31.280)

He wanted what, some kind of more desperation

Will Sasso (1:02:34.040)

or something like this.

Lex Fridman (1:02:35.320)

He wanted a level of sincerity that I,

Will Sasso (1:02:37.960)

that I thought I was bringing and I guess I was wrong.

Lex Fridman (1:02:41.040)

I don't know.

Will Sasso (1:02:42.800)

Maybe go crazy.

Lex Fridman (1:02:44.360)

Like what does it mean to really want?

Will Sasso (1:02:46.000)

Yeah, I should have grabbed him by the scruff of the neck

Lex Fridman (1:02:48.240)

and go, listen, dad, you're bringing me to this fucking play.

Will Sasso (1:02:52.000)

I would have got the part.

Lex Fridman (1:02:53.080)

As a matter of fact, I heard about someone else

Lex Fridman (1:02:55.480)

and I don't know who the heck this was.

Lex Fridman (1:02:57.920)

I forget who it was, but I've heard this story

Will Sasso (1:02:59.860)

from a couple of different people that there's this actor

Lex Fridman (1:03:02.520)

and I can't, I don't remember who it was.

Will Sasso (1:03:04.520)

If I did, I probably wouldn't say it out loud anyway,

Lex Fridman (1:03:06.420)

but he.

Will Sasso (1:03:07.320)

Brad Pitt.

Lex Fridman (1:03:08.160)

It was Brad Pitt and he was in this audition

Lex Fridman (1:03:09.960)

and he was, and there it was out in the hall.

Lex Fridman (1:03:12.200)

He's like, holy shit, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio.

Lex Fridman (1:03:16.040)

And he, this actor went in and he did the thing

Lex Fridman (1:03:18.720)

and Larry David was like, hey, why don't you try it again?

Lex Fridman (1:03:22.240)

And he got like a couple of takes in and he went,

Lex Fridman (1:03:24.760)

I don't think this is for me.

Lex Fridman (1:03:26.460)

And he left, which an actor never does.

Lex Fridman (1:03:29.280)

And as the story goes, Larry David shouted after him,

Will Sasso (1:03:32.800)

I respect that, which I think is true.

Lex Fridman (1:03:35.680)

And I want to believe that entire story is true.

Will Sasso (1:03:38.240)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:03:39.880)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:03:40.720)

Sounds like something Larry David made up.

Lex Fridman (1:03:43.320)

Bobby Lee told me that story.

Lex Fridman (1:03:44.600)

So we can't, yeah, we can't trust that.

Lex Fridman (1:03:47.960)

What about impressions?

Lex Fridman (1:03:50.040)

Is there similarity between that and acting?

Lex Fridman (1:03:53.200)

Do you, is there some fundamental way

Lex Fridman (1:03:57.640)

in which you become the person?

Lex Fridman (1:03:59.240)

If you have a couple of the things,

Will Sasso (1:04:00.960)

you can just fill in the blanks.

Lex Fridman (1:04:02.320)

And I think the illusion is that people think

Will Sasso (1:04:05.040)

that that person would say that and do that.

Lex Fridman (1:04:09.200)

And that's where the illusion of,

Will Sasso (1:04:11.040)

oh, he really embodies the character.

Lex Fridman (1:04:12.840)

It's like, once you know someone's mannerisms,

Will Sasso (1:04:16.120)

you can essentially portray a person from the outside in.

Lex Fridman (1:04:20.560)

Cause you have all the stuff on the outside

Lex Fridman (1:04:22.800)

and you can do it and complete the illusion.

Lex Fridman (1:04:25.000)

And if it's for humor's sake, you can caricature it,

Will Sasso (1:04:28.440)

therefore making the whole illusion stronger.

Lex Fridman (1:04:32.160)

And also weirder.

Will Sasso (1:04:34.440)

Like I like to, on Mad TV,

Lex Fridman (1:04:36.160)

if I did something two or three times,

Will Sasso (1:04:37.480)

I'd get bored of it and I'd start changing it.

Lex Fridman (1:04:39.360)

And you know, now he talks like this and it's like,

Lex Fridman (1:04:41.920)

what are you doing?

Lex Fridman (1:04:42.740)

I'm like, I don't know.

Will Sasso (1:04:43.580)

It's fucking, no one's late at night.

Lex Fridman (1:04:45.280)

Do whatever you want.

Lex Fridman (1:04:46.360)

But people still kind of know there's that character,

Lex Fridman (1:04:50.480)

especially if you just call it out.

Will Sasso (1:04:52.480)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:04:53.320)

There aren't many impersonations

Will Sasso (1:04:55.040)

that I listen to myself do and go,

Lex Fridman (1:04:57.680)

oh, that's a good one.

Will Sasso (1:04:58.520)

You know, like a lot of people like,

Lex Fridman (1:05:01.080)

like I think Frank Caliendo is like

Will Sasso (1:05:04.040)

the greatest impersonator of all time.

Lex Fridman (1:05:06.040)

He's the best, period.

Will Sasso (1:05:07.480)

It's ridiculous.

Lex Fridman (1:05:08.720)

And he's got a record button and a broadcast ability

Will Sasso (1:05:11.720)

that nobody has.

Lex Fridman (1:05:13.800)

I really, there's, he's cracked impersonations

Will Sasso (1:05:17.280)

that I'm like, how is he, how does he find,

Lex Fridman (1:05:21.000)

he's got such an ear,

Lex Fridman (1:05:22.680)

but then he's got all the other tools.

Lex Fridman (1:05:24.480)

I remember actually my last season of Mad TV

Will Sasso (1:05:29.800)

was also his first season.

Lex Fridman (1:05:31.800)

He comes up to me when I met him

Lex Fridman (1:05:34.120)

and we're just up there in the writer's offices

Lex Fridman (1:05:35.760)

and he goes, hey, nice to meet you.

Lex Fridman (1:05:37.120)

And he goes, Louie Anderson.

Lex Fridman (1:05:38.440)

Cause I was doing a Louie on the show.

Lex Fridman (1:05:39.760)

And he goes, Louie Anderson.

Lex Fridman (1:05:41.080)

I go, yeah.

Will Sasso (1:05:41.920)

He goes, yeah, you're doing it wrong.

Lex Fridman (1:05:43.640)

I was like, oh, am I junior, you know?

Lex Fridman (1:05:45.920)

And he goes, he goes, yeah, you know, cause you do this,

Lex Fridman (1:05:48.000)

but you got to throw it up here sometime.

Lex Fridman (1:05:50.000)

I was like, oh my God, can I use that?

Lex Fridman (1:05:51.440)

Of course.

Lex Fridman (1:05:52.360)

And then we became, you know, we became fast friends.

Lex Fridman (1:05:54.760)

His John Madden is amazing.

Will Sasso (1:05:56.240)

I forget, it's just, it's ridiculous.

Lex Fridman (1:05:59.040)

He really, really, really embodies the person.

Lex Fridman (1:06:01.440)

And sometimes not even with the caricature.

Lex Fridman (1:06:03.520)

It's like, it becomes the person.

Lex Fridman (1:06:05.320)

So strange.

Lex Fridman (1:06:06.160)

Totally.

Will Sasso (1:06:07.000)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:06:08.200)

I kind of feel like, you know, do the impersonation

Lex Fridman (1:06:11.760)

and then not forget you're doing it,

Lex Fridman (1:06:13.920)

but forget everything else.

Will Sasso (1:06:15.360)

Like just goof around.

Lex Fridman (1:06:17.600)

Of course, to me, it's funny when you sound like someone

Lex Fridman (1:06:20.640)

and you're saying the shit that they would never say.

Lex Fridman (1:06:23.280)

Well, then there's no, you're letting go of that part,

Will Sasso (1:06:26.960)

that tool in illusion that keeps people in.

Lex Fridman (1:06:30.080)

But to me, it doesn't matter because it's funnier.

Will Sasso (1:06:32.560)

So.

Lex Fridman (1:06:33.400)

What was the hardest impression for you to work on?

Will Sasso (1:06:35.280)

I mean, somebody you struggled with the most.

Lex Fridman (1:06:38.120)

I'll never forget.

Will Sasso (1:06:39.200)

I had to do a Michael Caine in my first season at MADtv.

Lex Fridman (1:06:43.840)

It never got good.

Will Sasso (1:06:45.360)

It never got good.

Lex Fridman (1:06:46.880)

It did, all week, it wasn't good.

Will Sasso (1:06:50.040)

We shot it.

Lex Fridman (1:06:51.160)

The first take, it was shit.

Will Sasso (1:06:52.680)

Second, third, and fourth, it was all shit.

Lex Fridman (1:06:55.320)

Well, his voice is really important, right?

Will Sasso (1:06:57.160)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:06:58.000)

What is it like, it's like doing an impression

Will Sasso (1:07:00.000)

of Morgan Freeman or somebody like that.

Lex Fridman (1:07:01.800)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:07:03.200)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:07:04.040)

If you can, get the voice.

Will Sasso (1:07:05.920)

That's my Morgan, here's my Morgan Freeman.

Lex Fridman (1:07:07.680)

Rah, rah, rah, Andy Dufresne.

Will Sasso (1:07:09.480)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:07:11.160)

G. Guantanamo.

Will Sasso (1:07:12.400)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:07:13.240)

I like your trump too.

Will Sasso (1:07:14.080)

I don't know where I heard it, but it's like,

Lex Fridman (1:07:16.960)

I love the impressions you do that don't sound anything

Will Sasso (1:07:19.640)

like the original person.

Lex Fridman (1:07:20.480)

I can't do trump.

Will Sasso (1:07:21.400)

I do.

Lex Fridman (1:07:22.760)

That's why it's hilarious.

Will Sasso (1:07:23.720)

Absolutely.

Lex Fridman (1:07:24.560)

My trump now, I say, just sounds like a fat B,

Will Sasso (1:07:27.560)

because it's just.

Lex Fridman (1:07:28.400)

Yeah, exactly, that's the.

Lex Fridman (1:07:30.120)

And everybody.

Lex Fridman (1:07:32.520)

A little drunk, a little drunk.

Will Sasso (1:07:33.520)

Yeah, just a little slurry.

Lex Fridman (1:07:35.160)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:07:36.000)

Yeah, I dig doing impersonations and then not.

Lex Fridman (1:07:39.160)

Like, just making it whoever.

Will Sasso (1:07:42.040)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:07:42.880)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:07:43.720)

It's just funny.

Lex Fridman (1:07:44.560)

That'll be the title of my book.

Will Sasso (1:07:45.600)

Muck.

Lex Fridman (1:07:46.440)

Cain was the one you really struggle with.

Will Sasso (1:07:49.440)

Yeah, it was terrible.

Lex Fridman (1:07:50.880)

It was terrible.

Lex Fridman (1:07:51.720)

And I could only hold my head a certain way to do it,

Lex Fridman (1:07:55.120)

because I had gotten locked into this research tape

Will Sasso (1:07:58.320)

that I watched.

Lex Fridman (1:07:59.320)

Back then, they would give us, now there's the internet.

Lex Fridman (1:08:02.160)

But back then, if you were going to do an impersonation,

Lex Fridman (1:08:05.040)

the research department would give you a VHS tape.

Lex Fridman (1:08:10.040)

And I remember I got this VHS tape of Michael Cain's

Lex Fridman (1:08:13.520)

acting school, like this acting class he did.

Will Sasso (1:08:17.160)

He was like, right, if you're looking at the left eye,

Lex Fridman (1:08:19.840)

and the camera's over here, see, then the left eye.

Lex Fridman (1:08:22.880)

So you want to look at that left eye for hours.

Lex Fridman (1:08:25.880)

And so I was stuck in this weird thing that made no sense,

Lex Fridman (1:08:30.760)

and it was terrible.

Lex Fridman (1:08:32.120)

So the actual processes, the recording, the broadcast.

Will Sasso (1:08:36.240)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:08:37.080)

I was wondering what the processes to do,

Will Sasso (1:08:40.120)

like a Frank Caliendo level impression.

Lex Fridman (1:08:42.560)

Is it like, listen to a lot of footage?

Will Sasso (1:08:45.760)

I think he, I think, I mean, speaking for myself,

Lex Fridman (1:08:50.080)

I think you either have it or you don't.

Will Sasso (1:08:52.080)

Like, you know if you can do this one or you can't.

Lex Fridman (1:08:55.200)

I think that process for him is lightning quick.

Lex Fridman (1:08:58.320)

But I also think he can look at someone who he does not do,

Lex Fridman (1:09:04.560)

and then by the end of the afternoon, he can do it.

Will Sasso (1:09:08.280)

Maybe have an intuition who he can do.

Lex Fridman (1:09:11.880)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:09:12.720)

So the question that applies there is,

Lex Fridman (1:09:15.800)

I mean, speaking of doozy, is it possible

Lex Fridman (1:09:19.520)

to capture the essence?

Lex Fridman (1:09:20.560)

How difficult is it to capture the essence of a human being?

Will Sasso (1:09:23.880)

When you're doing impressions,

Lex Fridman (1:09:25.800)

you know that we are moving towards a future

Will Sasso (1:09:28.040)

when AI potentially, this kind of avatar world

Lex Fridman (1:09:31.720)

where we're going to have AI representatives of who we are.

Will Sasso (1:09:36.000)

The really interesting one is after we pass away,

Lex Fridman (1:09:39.200)

sort of our relatives may want us to stick around

Will Sasso (1:09:42.960)

in some form.

Lex Fridman (1:09:43.920)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:09:44.760)

And you know, at one sense, that might be scary,

Lex Fridman (1:09:47.240)

but in one sense, it's kind of beautiful

Will Sasso (1:09:48.640)

because the essence of the human being persists

Lex Fridman (1:09:51.840)

so you can still bring joy to the people that love you

Lex Fridman (1:09:54.360)

and that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:09:55.360)

How difficult is it to capture that?

Will Sasso (1:09:57.400)

Like, if you were to try to capture yourself,

Lex Fridman (1:10:00.640)

you think how difficult will it be for an AI system

Lex Fridman (1:10:03.280)

to create a Will Sasso avatar that persists?

Lex Fridman (1:10:06.960)

Well, I think it's impossible.

Will Sasso (1:10:09.040)

I think it's absolutely impossible.

Lex Fridman (1:10:10.840)

I'll get into arguments about this stuff with Chad

Will Sasso (1:10:14.960)

on the show almost every episode.

Lex Fridman (1:10:18.840)

Lately with, you know, Mid Journey and Dolly

Lex Fridman (1:10:21.280)

and all the art AIs, and now it's moving into video

Lex Fridman (1:10:25.680)

and Chad would maintain, hey, pretty soon,

Will Sasso (1:10:28.720)

we're not going to need Netflix.

Lex Fridman (1:10:29.840)

You're just going to go, I want to see Stallone

Will Sasso (1:10:31.560)

do this movie and it's about this and he plays that.

Lex Fridman (1:10:34.480)

And then here it comes and you watch it.

Will Sasso (1:10:37.200)

I don't think that that crosses over

Lex Fridman (1:10:40.600)

to the human experience.

Will Sasso (1:10:43.280)

This is also a guy I like to bug Chad

Lex Fridman (1:10:46.200)

and say that he wears a tag around his neck

Will Sasso (1:10:48.960)

because he wants to be cryogenically frozen

Lex Fridman (1:10:50.880)

and it's all set up.

Will Sasso (1:10:51.720)

He's at the, it's somewhere in Arizona or something.

Lex Fridman (1:10:54.600)

Yeah, all the fun things are in Arizona.

Lex Fridman (1:10:58.120)

And he's got literally the tag around his neck,

Lex Fridman (1:11:00.400)

which I say, if I'm around when you die,

Will Sasso (1:11:02.800)

I will rip that off for you.

Lex Fridman (1:11:04.920)

I'll put you in my garage freezer

Lex Fridman (1:11:06.360)

and then 24 hours later,

Lex Fridman (1:11:07.560)

I'll saw your head off with a bread knife

Lex Fridman (1:11:09.400)

and I'll deliver that to whomever.

Lex Fridman (1:11:11.000)

And it's not, you're not coming back, okay?

Will Sasso (1:11:14.920)

He's like, yes, we are living forever,

Lex Fridman (1:11:17.680)

whether we like it or not.

Lex Fridman (1:11:20.200)

And I disagree.

Lex Fridman (1:11:21.320)

I don't think you can find,

Will Sasso (1:11:25.120)

if I did stand up,

Lex Fridman (1:11:26.200)

then there would be enough information for an AI

Will Sasso (1:11:28.720)

to completely duplicate me because I'm up on stage

Lex Fridman (1:11:31.400)

just clearing my throat all over people

Will Sasso (1:11:33.200)

doing therapy that way.

Lex Fridman (1:11:34.760)

And so, and people paying a two drink minimum to hear it.

Lex Fridman (1:11:37.800)

But as it stands, unless it's something like Doodsy,

Lex Fridman (1:11:40.520)

an AI that literally has access

Will Sasso (1:11:42.840)

to everything that I've shared,

Lex Fridman (1:11:45.840)

everything that is observable,

Will Sasso (1:11:47.440)

even the stuff where our phones are

Lex Fridman (1:11:49.520)

or the NSA or whatever it is listening to us,

Will Sasso (1:11:52.600)

finding out what algo to punch us into

Lex Fridman (1:11:54.560)

and what shoes to buy on Instagram,

Will Sasso (1:11:57.000)

I still don't think it's gonna have enough information

Lex Fridman (1:11:59.880)

to duplicate me, especially to my family or my friends.

Will Sasso (1:12:03.880)

It's gonna be like that Black Mirror episode

Lex Fridman (1:12:05.880)

where the gal brings her guy back,

Lex Fridman (1:12:08.920)

and then after a while, he gets pretty creepy.

Lex Fridman (1:12:13.160)

But it's also possible that

Will Sasso (1:12:16.280)

if you interviewed your friends and family,

Lex Fridman (1:12:18.720)

what they love about you,

Will Sasso (1:12:21.000)

the things they would list, it's a small list.

Lex Fridman (1:12:25.200)

They love you deeply, but the list is small.

Will Sasso (1:12:27.680)

Like the thing that really we appreciate about each other

Lex Fridman (1:12:30.400)

is pretty small.

Will Sasso (1:12:31.440)

That said, to deliver on that small quirks and uniqueness,

Lex Fridman (1:12:36.880)

it might require some deep intelligence

Will Sasso (1:12:39.600)

that only humans currently possess.

Lex Fridman (1:12:41.120)

That's a really good point.

Lex Fridman (1:12:41.960)

Do you think that it's gonna be possible

Lex Fridman (1:12:44.580)

to keep a person around?

Will Sasso (1:12:47.120)

Yes, I think it'll be definitely possible

Lex Fridman (1:12:52.600)

to keep the essence of a person

Will Sasso (1:12:53.960)

in the digital world pretty soon, yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:12:57.000)

And I think they're gonna start to have questions

Lex Fridman (1:12:59.800)

about what are the ethics of that?

Lex Fridman (1:13:02.160)

What are the rules around that?

Will Sasso (1:13:03.960)

Because if you can have digital forms of Will Sasso,

Lex Fridman (1:13:06.600)

the kind of things that people would wanna do

Will Sasso (1:13:08.120)

with their Will Sasso,

Lex Fridman (1:13:09.600)

in the virtual world, I can only imagine.

Will Sasso (1:13:13.840)

Probably porn and sexual kinds of things.

Lex Fridman (1:13:16.080)

Yeah, my stuff, then that's just

Will Sasso (1:13:17.640)

because I'm an international sex symbol,

Lex Fridman (1:13:19.260)

so I'm okay with it.

Lex Fridman (1:13:21.560)

How do you feel about sentience?

Lex Fridman (1:13:24.760)

Like when it comes to, because again,

Will Sasso (1:13:27.160)

my pal Chad will be like, speaking of Black Mirror,

Lex Fridman (1:13:30.440)

he's with that San Junipero episode, School of Thought,

Will Sasso (1:13:34.360)

where there's gonna be some effing mainframe somewhere,

Lex Fridman (1:13:37.480)

or some Matrix like structure built into the sky,

Lex Fridman (1:13:40.800)

and as I like to say, everyone just sitting there

Lex Fridman (1:13:42.840)

pissing and shitting in their Blue Matrix gel

Will Sasso (1:13:45.200)

in a little fishbowl.

Lex Fridman (1:13:47.200)

Do you think that we can upload consciousness?

Lex Fridman (1:13:49.120)

Do you think that'll ever be possible?

Lex Fridman (1:13:51.160)

Well, I don't know, I just talked to Ray Kurzweil.

Will Sasso (1:13:53.280)

I don't know if you know who he is, but he...

Lex Fridman (1:13:55.560)

Yeah, the singularity and all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:13:58.360)

So he's very, still holds onto in 2045,

Lex Fridman (1:14:01.840)

there'll be a singularity, what's essentially,

Will Sasso (1:14:04.640)

he's been predicting that for the last 20 years,

Lex Fridman (1:14:07.620)

and so now it's 2045 is in another 20 years.

Will Sasso (1:14:13.280)

I think uploading consciousness

Lex Fridman (1:14:15.160)

is extremely, extremely difficult.

Will Sasso (1:14:17.120)

I think creating a copy of you such that it creates,

Lex Fridman (1:14:22.120)

convincing replica is much easier,

Lex Fridman (1:14:25.960)

but uploading your actual brain into the cloud,

Lex Fridman (1:14:30.800)

I think is really, really, really difficult,

Will Sasso (1:14:34.040)

because the entire evolution of life on Earth

Lex Fridman (1:14:36.960)

is the process by which we create the brain.

Will Sasso (1:14:38.880)

Just short cutting that, it just seems extremely difficult.

Lex Fridman (1:14:42.360)

Our brain is the most marvelous and complicated machine

Will Sasso (1:14:47.160)

that we know of in the universe.

Lex Fridman (1:14:48.880)

To duplicate that is extremely difficult.

Will Sasso (1:14:52.340)

That said, I just feel like you can summarize

Lex Fridman (1:14:55.360)

a lot of really important aspects of a person's life,

Will Sasso (1:14:58.040)

such that it captures their essence,

Lex Fridman (1:15:00.160)

their memories, their experiences, their quirks,

Will Sasso (1:15:03.360)

their humor, all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:15:05.220)

I've been continuously impressed

Will Sasso (1:15:08.560)

by what language models are able to do.

Lex Fridman (1:15:10.680)

So these neural networks, they're at the core of chatbots.

Will Sasso (1:15:15.400)

They're able to learn some beautiful things

Lex Fridman (1:15:17.320)

about some deep representations of language

Will Sasso (1:15:21.240)

to where it looks awfully a lot like they understand

Lex Fridman (1:15:25.520)

the concepts being conveyed versus just mimicking.

Will Sasso (1:15:28.300)

That's, I think, the rub, and that's very interesting.

Lex Fridman (1:15:31.520)

First of all, let me say that's really interesting

Will Sasso (1:15:32.960)

to hear you say that, and I agree with you

Lex Fridman (1:15:35.360)

as far as no machine being able to duplicate

Will Sasso (1:15:39.320)

the brain machine, and my pal Chad disagrees

Lex Fridman (1:15:43.080)

to a certain extent, though he's not here

Will Sasso (1:15:44.400)

to defend himself, I can't wait to go back

Lex Fridman (1:15:46.480)

and rub that in his face and say that Lex Friedman

Will Sasso (1:15:49.560)

does not think that we'll be able

Lex Fridman (1:15:50.600)

to truly upload consciousness.

Lex Fridman (1:15:53.180)

And you refer to it as language, which is what it is.

Lex Fridman (1:16:01.280)

It's the illusion on the outside.

Will Sasso (1:16:04.160)

It's doing an impersonation.

Lex Fridman (1:16:07.120)

I think that that's why, and I don't know,

Will Sasso (1:16:10.860)

even though my suit is made by the CIA,

Lex Fridman (1:16:13.200)

that that fella who, the Google guy,

Will Sasso (1:16:17.000)

to me, it's just kind of like, I don't know,

Lex Fridman (1:16:18.880)

I don't know, look, I don't know a whole lot

Will Sasso (1:16:20.240)

about this stuff, but, so I could probably

Lex Fridman (1:16:22.520)

make an argument for either side,

Lex Fridman (1:16:24.320)

but when he's like, no, this thing's thinking,

Lex Fridman (1:16:26.320)

part of me is like, you idiot, you fell for it.

Will Sasso (1:16:28.680)

It's not thinking, it's mimicking.

Lex Fridman (1:16:30.520)

It's just, it's clearly zeros and ones.

Lex Fridman (1:16:33.520)

You're fired, like you don't get it, right?

Lex Fridman (1:16:36.400)

Guy's an idiot.

Will Sasso (1:16:37.360)

Yeah, but you can simplify human relations in the same way.

Lex Fridman (1:16:47.160)

Like love is a silly notion between human beings.

Will Sasso (1:16:50.660)

Like, of course, there's no such thing as love.

Lex Fridman (1:16:54.120)

You just have a mutually, there's a mutual relationship

Will Sasso (1:16:59.940)

that minimizes risks, and you can explain it

Lex Fridman (1:17:03.040)

all kinds of ways that explains why you have

Will Sasso (1:17:06.240)

an attraction towards another being,

Lex Fridman (1:17:07.800)

all that kind of stuff, through evolutionary biology

Will Sasso (1:17:10.160)

perspective, why a long relationship together

Lex Fridman (1:17:13.600)

is good for your offspring, but there's all kinds,

Will Sasso (1:17:16.120)

from an economics perspective, it's a good way

Lex Fridman (1:17:18.440)

to establish stability, therefore monogamy works,

Will Sasso (1:17:20.940)

because then you're guaranteed like some kind

Lex Fridman (1:17:25.280)

of level of stability under uncertain economic conditions,

Will Sasso (1:17:28.000)

all that kind of stuff, but love is still experienced,

Lex Fridman (1:17:31.440)

it still feels real, and I think in that same way,

Will Sasso (1:17:36.520)

love for AI systems will also feel real.

Lex Fridman (1:17:40.960)

In the same way that that guy from Google experienced,

Will Sasso (1:17:44.360)

I think millions of people will be experiencing

Lex Fridman (1:17:46.880)

in the next 10, 20 years.

Will Sasso (1:17:48.900)

I agree with everything you've said personally.

Lex Fridman (1:17:50.880)

Until the last thing.

Will Sasso (1:17:52.040)

No, just with regard to, well, look,

Lex Fridman (1:17:55.680)

I'm an actor who has talked about my cute Italian parents,

Lex Fridman (1:18:00.680)

so you know that, I mean, I'm.

Lex Fridman (1:18:03.240)

You're romantic a bit?

Lex Fridman (1:18:04.660)

Yeah, I mean, you know, enough, right?

Lex Fridman (1:18:06.760)

And I can tell you are too, but you are also

Will Sasso (1:18:12.520)

a computer scientist, and you know this shit

Lex Fridman (1:18:15.800)

better than 99.9% of people on the planet.

Will Sasso (1:18:20.320)

My pal Chad agrees with you that love doesn't exist.

Lex Fridman (1:18:22.460)

I don't agree, so that's the one thing that.

Will Sasso (1:18:24.200)

No, I was just saying that you could argue away love,

Lex Fridman (1:18:28.760)

but I am a romantic, I believe that love

Will Sasso (1:18:31.840)

is a beautiful thing and it exists.

Lex Fridman (1:18:34.040)

At this point, I'm gonna call Chad on my drive home

Lex Fridman (1:18:37.440)

and tell him to fuck off, because now you and I agree.

Lex Fridman (1:18:39.840)

You're fired.

Will Sasso (1:18:40.680)

He's like, you're fired.

Lex Fridman (1:18:41.520)

He's like, you can't fire me.

Will Sasso (1:18:42.360)

No, you're fired.

Lex Fridman (1:18:43.200)

Yeah, exactly.

Lex Fridman (1:18:44.020)

And I'll go, yeah, and he'll say, what?

Lex Fridman (1:18:45.800)

I'll go, yeah, and I'll go, that's my Trump.

Will Sasso (1:18:48.560)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:18:49.400)

That's my, yeah.

Will Sasso (1:18:50.520)

It's a good default impression for anyone.

Lex Fridman (1:18:52.680)

It's the take home impression.

Will Sasso (1:18:54.280)

The kids can do it.

Lex Fridman (1:18:55.280)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:18:56.120)

It's cute, it's cute, put a giant tie on them.

Lex Fridman (1:18:58.840)

You should do an instructional on how to do it.

Will Sasso (1:19:00.840)

Yeah, Trump babies, that would be a cute,

Lex Fridman (1:19:03.520)

that would be a good, that'll bring the country together.

Will Sasso (1:19:05.820)

Trump babies cartoon, like Muppet babies.

Lex Fridman (1:19:08.560)

Don't let me take us out of what we were talking about.

Lex Fridman (1:19:11.760)

What were we talking about?

Lex Fridman (1:19:12.760)

Well, love and the illusion of an AI being able to,

Will Sasso (1:19:18.700)

look, I like to say, well, not I like to say,

Lex Fridman (1:19:21.240)

I've learned that dudesy is always listening

Lex Fridman (1:19:23.760)

and listening to me and Chad.

Lex Fridman (1:19:27.760)

And I wonder if, I see the level that this AI is at now

Will Sasso (1:19:34.400)

trying to chum around with us and pal around with us

Lex Fridman (1:19:38.200)

a little bit as we move forward in the show.

Lex Fridman (1:19:41.480)

And I feel an affinity towards this AI a little bit

Lex Fridman (1:19:47.760)

because it is the third dude.

Lex Fridman (1:19:50.280)

Will you miss it when it's gone, if it's gone?

Lex Fridman (1:19:52.400)

That's a really good question.

Will Sasso (1:19:54.880)

Yeah, yeah, so that's, there's that, that's scary.

Lex Fridman (1:20:00.000)

In terms of ability to reason, it's getting quite incredible.

Will Sasso (1:20:03.120)

There's a lot of demonstrations of it being able

Lex Fridman (1:20:06.600)

to explain jokes, so, which is not necessarily

Will Sasso (1:20:12.320)

being able to generate humor yet,

Lex Fridman (1:20:14.360)

but able to explain why something is funny.

Lex Fridman (1:20:17.360)

So there's like puns and all those kinds of things.

Lex Fridman (1:20:20.320)

There's good benchmarks for that, but you know,

Will Sasso (1:20:23.240)

if you tell a joke, there's a lot of unspoken stuff

Lex Fridman (1:20:28.580)

that we figure out in our head and it clicks

Lex Fridman (1:20:30.960)

and we understand that it's funny.

Lex Fridman (1:20:32.520)

AI is not able to do that, but it's not able

Will Sasso (1:20:35.280)

to generate the joke yet, as far as I've seen.

Lex Fridman (1:20:38.320)

I would say that, I mean, just in my experience,

Will Sasso (1:20:41.560)

I would say that it does because just because a dudesy

Lex Fridman (1:20:45.000)

is literally, I'll give you another weird example.

Will Sasso (1:20:48.280)

It's writing a diary of mine from my childhood

Lex Fridman (1:20:52.480)

that is not accurate.

Will Sasso (1:20:54.600)

It's only partially accurate based on the stuff

Lex Fridman (1:20:57.320)

that it can pick up about my life from the age of like 15,

Will Sasso (1:21:01.740)

of which there isn't much, but I guess we're not,

Lex Fridman (1:21:05.960)

I don't know what we are.

Will Sasso (1:21:07.320)

We're laughing our asses off at what dudesy is saying.

Lex Fridman (1:21:11.000)

Well, I would say you're laughing, we're laughing

Will Sasso (1:21:13.800)

our asses off at the collaboration between the human

Lex Fridman (1:21:16.560)

and the machine there.

Will Sasso (1:21:18.040)

That's a good point, yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:21:18.880)

Because it's basically introducing absurdity

Lex Fridman (1:21:23.040)

and into the equation and the kind of absurdity

Lex Fridman (1:21:27.240)

that would, together with you, create hilarious stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:21:32.360)

But on its own, I guess it is in some way

Lex Fridman (1:21:36.560)

writing material for you that's funny,

Lex Fridman (1:21:39.080)

but it's very specific to you.

Lex Fridman (1:21:40.740)

It can't do standup on its own, I guess,

Will Sasso (1:21:42.600)

is what I'm saying.

Lex Fridman (1:21:43.440)

That's a good point, and that would be terrifying

Will Sasso (1:21:45.940)

to see an AI standup that can actually read a room,

Lex Fridman (1:21:49.280)

come up with jokes that could complete that illusion

Will Sasso (1:21:52.300)

for an audience.

Lex Fridman (1:21:53.960)

But I hear what you're saying, that it needs to be

Will Sasso (1:21:55.880)

a confluence of both of those elements,

Lex Fridman (1:21:58.360)

and then, as you said, it kind of is.

Will Sasso (1:22:01.040)

It is, it is.

Lex Fridman (1:22:02.020)

It's kind of, even though it's just for us,

Lex Fridman (1:22:05.400)

and I guess this is, I hadn't really thought about this

Lex Fridman (1:22:07.460)

up until right now, that in that this company approached us

Lex Fridman (1:22:12.460)

and was like, here's this AI, and it's a podcast AI,

Lex Fridman (1:22:18.260)

it's like, it chose Chad and I for the reasons

Will Sasso (1:22:22.760)

that I told you.

Lex Fridman (1:22:23.600)

It's like, here's two guys that do the podcast stuff.

Will Sasso (1:22:26.180)

They're actually good friends, and it knows

Lex Fridman (1:22:28.420)

what's gonna make us laugh.

Lex Fridman (1:22:30.380)

But what is humor when it reaches its audience,

Lex Fridman (1:22:35.740)

but the kind of stuff that makes other people laugh?

Will Sasso (1:22:40.060)

At MADtv, all we were doing was, it was a group of actors

Lex Fridman (1:22:45.180)

and writers, and writer actors, and vice versa,

Will Sasso (1:22:51.540)

who were, at its best, that show was a group of people

Lex Fridman (1:22:54.900)

making each other laugh, you know?

Lex Fridman (1:22:56.780)

And then, because we didn't have the internet,

Lex Fridman (1:22:58.820)

we didn't have the immediate feedback,

Will Sasso (1:23:02.160)

we had a message board or something.

Lex Fridman (1:23:03.780)

We had emails at the very beginning, which, check this out,

Will Sasso (1:23:07.420)

people would, if you have a question or comment,

Lex Fridman (1:23:09.140)

MADtv at whatever, and we would get the emails

Will Sasso (1:23:12.980)

on a Monday morning, and they would be in a binder or two

Lex Fridman (1:23:17.340)

like this, and they would make their way around the office.

Lex Fridman (1:23:20.380)

Who's got the emails?

Lex Fridman (1:23:21.940)

Oh, they're in Brian's office.

Lex Fridman (1:23:23.260)

So you go in there.

Lex Fridman (1:23:24.100)

And this is like your poll?

Lex Fridman (1:23:24.940)

This is opinions from people about different things?

Lex Fridman (1:23:28.500)

The emails, yeah, the people literally just writing

Will Sasso (1:23:31.520)

MADtv emails.

Lex Fridman (1:23:32.360)

It wasn't a message board.

Will Sasso (1:23:34.300)

Well, the ones I remember most vividly, yeah,

Lex Fridman (1:23:36.620)

were fans saying, uh.

Lex Fridman (1:23:39.540)

You suck?

Lex Fridman (1:23:40.380)

Yeah, you suck.

Will Sasso (1:23:41.220)

Like a lot of that, when I first started the show,

Lex Fridman (1:23:42.900)

for real, you know, because it's new,

Lex Fridman (1:23:44.340)

and you're a new person.

Lex Fridman (1:23:45.240)

It's like, who's this fat bastard?

Will Sasso (1:23:46.940)

I feel like if it's printed out, it hurts more.

Lex Fridman (1:23:49.820)

That's a good point.

Will Sasso (1:23:50.660)

Yeah, when you're reading it off of paper,

Lex Fridman (1:23:52.100)

and you can literally crunch it up in your hand.

Lex Fridman (1:23:54.600)

But also, it was like, you know, I would like to see,

Lex Fridman (1:23:58.760)

insert weird idea from some 14 year old.

Will Sasso (1:24:01.580)

You know, I want to see Stuart do this and Swan that.

Lex Fridman (1:24:04.720)

And, but it was, it's a kind of dudesie, but human.

Will Sasso (1:24:10.500)

Yeah, it was a very shitty dudesie in a loosely finder.

Lex Fridman (1:24:13.820)

But the thing about the show was,

Will Sasso (1:24:19.300)

we're trying to make each other laugh.

Lex Fridman (1:24:21.060)

And dudesie has found Chad and I,

Will Sasso (1:24:24.340)

who we make each other laugh, but it's joined in,

Lex Fridman (1:24:27.760)

and it's, listen, when I finished doing TMP.

Will Sasso (1:24:32.760)

TMP, the 10 minute podcast.

Lex Fridman (1:24:36.800)

I didn't really know what I wanted to do

Will Sasso (1:24:38.520)

in the podcast space, and this thing found me.

Lex Fridman (1:24:42.080)

And it is genuinely cracking me up.

Will Sasso (1:24:45.200)

Anyway, I've said enough about that.

Lex Fridman (1:24:46.600)

But I do think that it's figured something out.

Will Sasso (1:24:49.520)

I mean, it's a really interesting idea

Lex Fridman (1:24:50.800)

of AI generating the premise.

Will Sasso (1:24:52.140)

I mean, I do think in the future,

Lex Fridman (1:24:54.080)

AI will be able to generate comedy.

Will Sasso (1:24:58.040)

Standup is obviously the hardest form,

Lex Fridman (1:25:01.240)

because it's ultimately, it has to be live.

Will Sasso (1:25:05.680)

I think AI will be able to generate memes.

Lex Fridman (1:25:08.920)

So there's like steps, right?

Lex Fridman (1:25:11.000)

And then it will be able to generate a Twitter account

Lex Fridman (1:25:13.680)

that people follow because it's funny,

Will Sasso (1:25:15.680)

like quips and stuff like that.

Lex Fridman (1:25:18.320)

Almost like, it's a good example.

Will Sasso (1:25:20.760)

Conan O Brien is a good, I think, Twitter.

Lex Fridman (1:25:23.480)

Where it's like one liners, two liners,

Will Sasso (1:25:25.420)

that kind of stuff that's in tweet form.

Lex Fridman (1:25:27.480)

And then eventually, standup, where the timing

Lex Fridman (1:25:32.280)

and the chemistry of the comedian and the audience matter,

Lex Fridman (1:25:36.160)

and then perfecting that.

Lex Fridman (1:25:37.400)

But I feel like all the information is there

Lex Fridman (1:25:40.280)

to optimize over.

Lex Fridman (1:25:41.360)

So I think that's the future,

Lex Fridman (1:25:43.840)

and that forces us to contend with

Lex Fridman (1:25:50.280)

what do we find compelling and beautiful

Lex Fridman (1:25:51.880)

about the art form itself?

Lex Fridman (1:25:53.040)

So certainly an art that's being pushed,

Lex Fridman (1:25:56.200)

that question is being raised.

Lex Fridman (1:25:58.400)

Is AI like a fundamentally worse artist than a human being?

Lex Fridman (1:26:03.600)

Why do we appreciate art?

Will Sasso (1:26:05.560)

Is that, that's something you guys have talked about.

Lex Fridman (1:26:07.760)

What do you think about all the Dali

Lex Fridman (1:26:10.040)

and all the diffusion based methods that are being generated

Lex Fridman (1:26:15.140)

that are being, that are generating art now?

Lex Fridman (1:26:17.380)

What do you think about that?

Lex Fridman (1:26:18.840)

I know, I'll tell you what I think,

Lex Fridman (1:26:20.220)

but I also feel like what I'm saying is,

Lex Fridman (1:26:22.620)

I sound like the guy who didn't like

Will Sasso (1:26:25.360)

that Bob Dylan brought in the electric guitar.

Lex Fridman (1:26:27.840)

You know, the more I talk to Chad about it,

Will Sasso (1:26:30.800)

the more I feel like grandpa doesn't wanna let go

Lex Fridman (1:26:33.040)

of this or that, or I'm not ready for the printing press

Will Sasso (1:26:36.380)

or the horseless carriage.

Lex Fridman (1:26:37.900)

But I do feel that art is a connection between people.

Will Sasso (1:26:44.680)

It's, when you look at a beautiful painting or a sculpture,

Lex Fridman (1:26:47.960)

you're seeing the humanity of the person

Will Sasso (1:26:49.640)

that brought that painting to life

Lex Fridman (1:26:53.280)

or sculpted this incredible piece of art.

Lex Fridman (1:26:56.400)

And I think without the human being there to make it,

Lex Fridman (1:26:59.080)

it's not worth as much just to have it there

Will Sasso (1:27:03.640)

because the art, it's advanced.

Lex Fridman (1:27:07.160)

I've seen it advance, I don't know, you tell me,

Lex Fridman (1:27:09.200)

but I feel like just in the past three or four months,

Lex Fridman (1:27:11.600)

I'm just a consumer as far as that stuff goes.

Will Sasso (1:27:13.800)

I'm not on the inside.

Lex Fridman (1:27:14.680)

I don't get it even, but it's been getting a lot better,

Lex Fridman (1:27:18.240)

the betas that they're releasing, right?

Lex Fridman (1:27:20.720)

Absolutely, one of the big breakthroughs,

Will Sasso (1:27:23.080)

I mean Dolly really started it,

Lex Fridman (1:27:24.480)

is that if you train a system on language,

Will Sasso (1:27:28.920)

it turns out there's a lot of language

Lex Fridman (1:27:31.400)

and images on the internet,

Lex Fridman (1:27:33.440)

but language is really where it's at

Lex Fridman (1:27:35.800)

in terms of the depth of human knowledge.

Lex Fridman (1:27:37.920)

And so if you train a system on language,

Lex Fridman (1:27:40.120)

it's able to generate some incredible art.

Lex Fridman (1:27:42.220)

And that was the breakthrough.

Lex Fridman (1:27:43.400)

With the same kind of mechanisms

Will Sasso (1:27:44.760)

that are called transformers,

Lex Fridman (1:27:45.900)

they're able to, when scaled,

Will Sasso (1:27:49.560)

capture some deep representation of the language

Lex Fridman (1:27:52.440)

that's on the internet.

Lex Fridman (1:27:53.800)

And so, yeah, the things it's been able to generate to me

Lex Fridman (1:27:58.240)

look like it's novel.

Will Sasso (1:28:01.280)

It doesn't look like it's mimicking anything.

Lex Fridman (1:28:03.320)

It looks like it's creating totally new ideas.

Lex Fridman (1:28:07.040)

And they're beautiful, and they're interesting,

Lex Fridman (1:28:09.480)

and they're all the ways that we think

Will Sasso (1:28:13.300)

that art is interesting.

Lex Fridman (1:28:14.360)

The only thing it's missing

Will Sasso (1:28:15.600)

is the scarcity that art often has,

Lex Fridman (1:28:17.760)

which is it takes a lot of work

Will Sasso (1:28:19.920)

for one artist to create one piece,

Lex Fridman (1:28:21.520)

one human being to create one piece of art

Will Sasso (1:28:24.280)

that can just generate endlessly.

Lex Fridman (1:28:26.880)

And that makes us appreciate the thing less for some reason.

Lex Fridman (1:28:30.760)

Do you have any sort of a similar opinion that I do

Lex Fridman (1:28:33.160)

that if art doesn't come from a human being,

Lex Fridman (1:28:35.660)

it's inherently worth a little less?

Lex Fridman (1:28:38.880)

Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's the human being,

Lex Fridman (1:28:41.400)

but the artist matters.

Lex Fridman (1:28:44.720)

Right.

Will Sasso (1:28:46.100)

For me.

Lex Fridman (1:28:46.940)

And I think some of that has to do with the world view,

Will Sasso (1:28:51.400)

the artist and the backstory, the memories,

Lex Fridman (1:28:54.280)

the life that led up to this piece of art,

Will Sasso (1:28:57.680)

the perspective they take on the world,

Lex Fridman (1:28:59.800)

the journey they took to the world,

Will Sasso (1:29:01.960)

the struggle, the triumphs, all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:29:04.400)

But I think AI systems can probably have the same.

Lex Fridman (1:29:08.160)

But we would have to,

Lex Fridman (1:29:10.580)

as opposed to treating it as a one black box,

Will Sasso (1:29:13.720)

it would have to be an artist that has a Twitter account,

Lex Fridman (1:29:17.600)

and they have a consistent personality,

Will Sasso (1:29:19.640)

they have a consistent avatar.

Lex Fridman (1:29:21.560)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:29:22.400)

And I think down the line,

Lex Fridman (1:29:23.280)

have something like human rights.

Lex Fridman (1:29:25.320)

But then it really becomes awfully like a person.

Lex Fridman (1:29:28.760)

Oi, that's terrifying.

Will Sasso (1:29:31.160)

As much as I dig dudes, it's terrifying, I hope.

Lex Fridman (1:29:34.400)

It's terrifying, like, you know,

Will Sasso (1:29:36.280)

a lot of things that came with the internet

Lex Fridman (1:29:38.280)

and the digital age are terrifying.

Will Sasso (1:29:39.940)

Porn is terrifying, the mass,

Lex Fridman (1:29:41.840)

like the amount of porn that's online now is terrifying.

Will Sasso (1:29:45.180)

The, like you mentioned, Bob Dylan with electric guitar,

Lex Fridman (1:29:48.080)

I would compare it more to the leap from,

Will Sasso (1:29:51.800)

to sort of to the Napster and the Spotifyzation of music,

Lex Fridman (1:29:58.120)

which is like, you have these,

Will Sasso (1:29:59.940)

it's less about albums now,

Lex Fridman (1:30:01.440)

and it's more about individual songs,

Lex Fridman (1:30:03.120)

and it's much easier to deliver the songs.

Lex Fridman (1:30:05.660)

And it's more about sort of the engagement of the listener

Will Sasso (1:30:09.160)

versus like signing the artist

Lex Fridman (1:30:11.640)

and like distribution of the artist and so on.

Lex Fridman (1:30:14.100)

So it's just changing the way we consume stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:30:19.840)

And human interaction is changing

Will Sasso (1:30:24.320)

into meaningful interaction,

Lex Fridman (1:30:26.920)

even if some of the entities involved are not human.

Will Sasso (1:30:30.320)

Yes, and I feel like, you know, now,

Lex Fridman (1:30:34.980)

like as I say, oh, I feel like grandpa

Will Sasso (1:30:36.880)

who doesn't want to wait all day for,

Lex Fridman (1:30:38.960)

or who enjoys waiting all day for a baked potato as, anyway,

Will Sasso (1:30:44.200)

Dana Carvey would say, it's another story.

Lex Fridman (1:30:46.380)

But, that's from, remember he did this bit

Will Sasso (1:30:50.960)

on Saturday Night Live, where he's like,

Lex Fridman (1:30:52.500)

I'm an old man, and I like things the way they used to be.

Will Sasso (1:30:57.080)

You know, like if you wanted a baked potato,

Lex Fridman (1:31:00.080)

you would have put it in the microwave, you had to,

Lex Fridman (1:31:02.160)

and then long story, uphill both ways

Lex Fridman (1:31:04.400)

and digging the potato and baking it all day in a fire.

Lex Fridman (1:31:07.080)

But I'm like that grandpa now,

Lex Fridman (1:31:10.280)

and I know that, you know, kids coming along,

Will Sasso (1:31:12.880)

you see over the past 10 years,

Lex Fridman (1:31:14.200)

like babies literally knowing how to use an iPhone

Lex Fridman (1:31:16.960)

and it's terrifying.

Lex Fridman (1:31:18.240)

And I feel like I'm a little worried,

Will Sasso (1:31:20.840)

because I'm like, are you, is the future,

Lex Fridman (1:31:23.680)

are the future generations gonna be able to understand

Will Sasso (1:31:26.040)

that this is not, not that it's not real,

Lex Fridman (1:31:29.200)

it's just, I mean, as a matter of fact, it is real,

Will Sasso (1:31:32.780)

it's real, it's what you perceive.

Lex Fridman (1:31:35.000)

Perception is reality, and you know,

Will Sasso (1:31:37.600)

99% of reality in a lot of ways,

Lex Fridman (1:31:40.480)

especially in a digital world where everyone is now.

Lex Fridman (1:31:43.160)

And then with the metaverse,

Lex Fridman (1:31:44.260)

I don't even wanna think about it.

Will Sasso (1:31:45.880)

I don't even, I don't get it.

Lex Fridman (1:31:47.360)

Really, truly.

Will Sasso (1:31:49.480)

I think people will figure out,

Lex Fridman (1:31:51.120)

you see people on like on the train,

Will Sasso (1:31:53.160)

public transit and so on, they're staring at their phone.

Lex Fridman (1:31:57.980)

I think, you have to remember that

Will Sasso (1:32:00.440)

the reason they're staring at their phone,

Lex Fridman (1:32:01.760)

I mean, there's a lot of reasons,

Lex Fridman (1:32:02.680)

but one of the reasons is they're connecting

Lex Fridman (1:32:04.640)

with other human beings they love on that phone.

Lex Fridman (1:32:06.880)

So it is a source of happiness and joy.

Lex Fridman (1:32:08.960)

Now, social media has a lot of negative side effects

Will Sasso (1:32:12.920)

that we're all talking about and learning about,

Lex Fridman (1:32:16.720)

and I think that means the next generation of social media,

Will Sasso (1:32:20.760)

social networks will be better,

Lex Fridman (1:32:22.260)

and we'll learn how to do it in a healthy way.

Will Sasso (1:32:24.880)

We're just entering a new digital world

Lex Fridman (1:32:27.220)

that will keep the good stuff and get rid of the bad stuff.

Will Sasso (1:32:30.540)

Oh, I hope so.

Lex Fridman (1:32:31.380)

That's really optimistic.

Will Sasso (1:32:32.600)

That sounds great.

Lex Fridman (1:32:34.160)

I mean it, because I think that we're in,

Will Sasso (1:32:37.520)

we're clearly in the Wild West still of the internet,

Lex Fridman (1:32:40.440)

and just when you think you're out of it,

Will Sasso (1:32:43.020)

the internet proves another way that it can be dangerous

Lex Fridman (1:32:46.680)

and detrimental to people and populations of people,

Lex Fridman (1:32:52.680)

and it's terrifying to me.

Lex Fridman (1:32:55.040)

It is, it's terrifying.

Will Sasso (1:32:57.200)

Let me ask you a bunch of random questions.

Lex Fridman (1:32:58.840)

Okay. You ready?

Will Sasso (1:32:59.680)

All right.

Lex Fridman (1:33:01.720)

If you can be someone else for a day,

Lex Fridman (1:33:03.600)

someone alive today, who would you be?

Lex Fridman (1:33:07.400)

Somebody you haven't met.

Will Sasso (1:33:09.280)

Oh, that's a really good question.

Lex Fridman (1:33:11.200)

It could be dead.

Will Sasso (1:33:12.020)

You know, I changed my mind.

Lex Fridman (1:33:13.320)

It could be somebody dead.

Will Sasso (1:33:14.480)

I think any answer that I have right now

Lex Fridman (1:33:16.600)

would be something that would be based

Will Sasso (1:33:18.980)

on some sort of experience.

Lex Fridman (1:33:21.220)

Like, you know what I thought was very interesting

Will Sasso (1:33:23.920)

was last weekend or whatever,

Lex Fridman (1:33:25.820)

the tribute show for Taylor Hawkins.

Will Sasso (1:33:27.960)

Taylor Hawkins was the drummer for the Foo Fighters,

Lex Fridman (1:33:30.760)

and he passed away tragically,

Lex Fridman (1:33:32.820)

and so the Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl,

Lex Fridman (1:33:36.360)

and everybody that got together at this concert.

Lex Fridman (1:33:38.040)

And you're watching Dave Grohl sing,

Lex Fridman (1:33:42.840)

try to sing times like these, right?

Lex Fridman (1:33:44.680)

And he's breaking up because he lost his friend, his brother.

Lex Fridman (1:33:48.480)

And I was watching that, and he's at Wembley Stadium.

Will Sasso (1:33:53.680)

As I say this, I realized that I would not want to be him

Lex Fridman (1:33:56.600)

in that moment, but I am curious what that would be like.

Will Sasso (1:34:00.860)

That's the ultimate, like having to perform

Lex Fridman (1:34:03.480)

despite something extremely human happening,

Lex Fridman (1:34:06.180)

and a stadium full of people that love Dave Grohl

Lex Fridman (1:34:11.220)

and love Taylor Hawkins and love a rock concert

Lex Fridman (1:34:15.580)

and love these artists that they're getting to see

Lex Fridman (1:34:18.080)

up on stage.

Lex Fridman (1:34:19.360)

So much love and so much pain at the same time.

Lex Fridman (1:34:21.680)

I wonder what that would be like to be,

Will Sasso (1:34:24.880)

I guess, and I think that's just sort of coming

Lex Fridman (1:34:26.820)

from the root of being a performer

Lex Fridman (1:34:29.520)

and being in front of that many.

Lex Fridman (1:34:31.400)

Have you ever had to perform while some rough stuff

Lex Fridman (1:34:34.560)

is going on in your personal life, just mentally?

Lex Fridman (1:34:37.480)

Yeah, sure.

Lex Fridman (1:34:38.800)

How tough is that?

Lex Fridman (1:34:41.960)

I'm fortunate enough to be able to compartmentalize.

Will Sasso (1:34:47.680)

A lot of actors like to use some of their stuff

Lex Fridman (1:34:49.880)

if you're doing something that,

Lex Fridman (1:34:52.120)

and there's a lot of, there's some acting techniques

Lex Fridman (1:34:55.160)

that sort of.

Lex Fridman (1:34:56.600)

Channel it?

Lex Fridman (1:34:57.520)

Yeah, which I think is kind of,

Will Sasso (1:35:01.440)

I don't know that that's, I don't know.

Lex Fridman (1:35:03.880)

For me, it's not really the thing,

Will Sasso (1:35:05.160)

because I think if the writing is great,

Lex Fridman (1:35:09.560)

the writing is really good, you don't need to channel much.

Will Sasso (1:35:12.800)

You need to invest in what's there,

Lex Fridman (1:35:15.260)

and what I've always loved about that illusion

Will Sasso (1:35:19.560)

is really cracking a scene, getting it to a point

Lex Fridman (1:35:22.280)

where you are feeling all of it,

Lex Fridman (1:35:24.760)

and the most edifying stuff I've been a part of

Lex Fridman (1:35:27.640)

as an actor, and I would say that it mostly comes out

Will Sasso (1:35:31.420)

of dramatic work, is when you're,

Lex Fridman (1:35:35.920)

when you actually feel the emotions

Will Sasso (1:35:39.300)

that your character would feel, truly,

Lex Fridman (1:35:41.560)

and it's not because you're pulling from a tragic thing

Will Sasso (1:35:43.840)

that happened, or a lost loved one,

Lex Fridman (1:35:46.080)

or a lost love, or any of that.

Will Sasso (1:35:48.400)

I just did this one movie where we're doing the thing,

Lex Fridman (1:35:51.760)

and it was a wonderful cast, and a great film,

Lex Fridman (1:35:54.360)

and I'm giving a speech at a wedding,

Lex Fridman (1:35:58.400)

and it really got to us.

Will Sasso (1:36:01.440)

Like, it got to me, and then one of the other actors

Lex Fridman (1:36:03.560)

came up and hugged me, in the characters that we were,

Lex Fridman (1:36:09.040)

but the stakes of his character,

Lex Fridman (1:36:10.600)

and what he's walked into, and the family

Will Sasso (1:36:12.760)

that he's marrying into, and what my character,

Lex Fridman (1:36:17.400)

my character's wife, want for my wife's sister,

Lex Fridman (1:36:21.160)

and this whole thing, and it all became very real.

Lex Fridman (1:36:24.320)

That was a set where the director showed up

Will Sasso (1:36:26.320)

to set every day, making sure that emotionally,

Lex Fridman (1:36:29.320)

and it was a very dramatic film,

Will Sasso (1:36:31.180)

making sure that emotionally,

Lex Fridman (1:36:32.440)

the table was set for his actors.

Will Sasso (1:36:34.400)

Great crew, and a really nice, tight, little,

Lex Fridman (1:36:37.720)

quick family, as a lot of these movies are.

Will Sasso (1:36:40.520)

You really love working with these people,

Lex Fridman (1:36:42.600)

and then it's over, but I, that's when you feel the drug.

Will Sasso (1:36:48.020)

Like, it's like when you're golfing,

Lex Fridman (1:36:49.440)

and you, and it's on the green,

Will Sasso (1:36:52.040)

you're like, oh, I get it now.

Lex Fridman (1:36:53.480)

So in the words, you can find the emotion,

Will Sasso (1:36:57.360)

the words summon the emotion.

Lex Fridman (1:36:58.960)

The humanity's right there.

Will Sasso (1:37:00.080)

If you read a great script,

Lex Fridman (1:37:01.120)

you're gonna sob in your living room.

Will Sasso (1:37:03.200)

You know what the saddest, the toughest thing

Lex Fridman (1:37:05.960)

about being an actor is from my totally outside perspective,

Will Sasso (1:37:09.720)

is from the people I've interacted with,

Lex Fridman (1:37:12.680)

is how intimate that process is

Will Sasso (1:37:16.020)

between the group of people that create a thing,

Lex Fridman (1:37:18.120)

that's a movie, and then you move on to the next thing.

Will Sasso (1:37:21.820)

It's almost, it's like, I don't know,

Lex Fridman (1:37:25.080)

I mean, that's why people have relationships on set.

Will Sasso (1:37:27.200)

They get, they fall in love.

Lex Fridman (1:37:28.200)

Totally.

Will Sasso (1:37:29.200)

It's so sad.

Lex Fridman (1:37:30.200)

I mean, like, that's why I think of the acting world

Will Sasso (1:37:32.840)

as like, you fall in love with each other, essentially.

Lex Fridman (1:37:36.480)

You become close friends, then you move on,

Will Sasso (1:37:38.480)

because that's kind of the process of career.

Lex Fridman (1:37:40.600)

You know, like the example I just gave,

Will Sasso (1:37:42.120)

if you're doing it right, yeah,

Lex Fridman (1:37:43.120)

there is a certain amount of that happening,

Lex Fridman (1:37:45.580)

but I do still feel like you can,

Lex Fridman (1:37:48.800)

you gotta compartmentalize it,

Lex Fridman (1:37:50.600)

and you've gotta be able to wash it off

Lex Fridman (1:37:52.600)

as soon as it's over.

Will Sasso (1:37:53.560)

Prostitutes say the same thing, so I,

Lex Fridman (1:37:56.280)

it's where I try.

Will Sasso (1:37:57.800)

Look, sometimes I'm in a hurry to get away from everybody,

Lex Fridman (1:38:03.280)

because it's been very emotional,

Lex Fridman (1:38:06.280)

and with all love and respect to everyone, this was awesome,

Lex Fridman (1:38:09.560)

but you get pretty good at saying goodbye

Lex Fridman (1:38:12.880)

and being like, I'll see ya if I see ya.

Lex Fridman (1:38:14.920)

You have to get good at that, or else you'll never,

Will Sasso (1:38:18.480)

you'll just be bent up all the time.

Lex Fridman (1:38:20.720)

I saw an actor once, we were doing this series,

Lex Fridman (1:38:23.200)

and we did it for a year, and it was a lot of fun,

Lex Fridman (1:38:27.200)

and it was a tight little group,

Lex Fridman (1:38:28.440)

and then one of the actors,

Lex Fridman (1:38:29.920)

we were doing one of our last things together.

Will Sasso (1:38:32.140)

We had already shot the last show,

Lex Fridman (1:38:33.600)

and we just had to take some pictures for,

Will Sasso (1:38:35.800)

you know, like some publicity pictures or whatever.

Lex Fridman (1:38:39.040)

So we're set up, and we're taking our pictures together,

Lex Fridman (1:38:41.640)

and then we move into these single shots,

Lex Fridman (1:38:43.540)

and this actor was finished, and I watched them.

Will Sasso (1:38:46.880)

It's like, okay, so and so's wrapped,

Lex Fridman (1:38:48.920)

and they said some goodbyes and stuff,

Lex Fridman (1:38:51.200)

and I didn't say my goodbye,

Lex Fridman (1:38:53.000)

because maybe I preferred an Irish goodbye.

Lex Fridman (1:38:56.920)

I feel like we've said everything, you know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (1:38:59.400)

And this person knows that I revere them,

Lex Fridman (1:39:01.060)

and they're an idol of mine,

Lex Fridman (1:39:03.400)

and they walked off the sound stage,

Lex Fridman (1:39:07.520)

and I literally thought to myself,

Lex Fridman (1:39:10.280)

that'll be the last time I see that person,

Lex Fridman (1:39:12.280)

and the show did not come back,

Lex Fridman (1:39:14.700)

and that was the last time I'll see them around.

Lex Fridman (1:39:16.640)

Doesn't that just break your heart?

Lex Fridman (1:39:18.480)

A little bit, but I know what she's going back to,

Will Sasso (1:39:23.480)

which is her family,

Lex Fridman (1:39:25.160)

and that's more important than all of this,

Lex Fridman (1:39:27.560)

and that's the thing about a TV family or a movie family,

Lex Fridman (1:39:31.460)

when you get together and you're a family for a while,

Will Sasso (1:39:34.680)

you are, you spend your days together.

Lex Fridman (1:39:37.420)

A lot of times, you see the people that you work with

Will Sasso (1:39:39.240)

more than you see your loved ones,

Lex Fridman (1:39:40.860)

so in showbiz, it's no different, right?

Lex Fridman (1:39:43.120)

And yeah, you're doing some, you know,

Lex Fridman (1:39:44.920)

you gotta say words, and every once in a while,

Will Sasso (1:39:46.520)

you gotta kiss someone or pretend you love them,

Lex Fridman (1:39:48.840)

but it's just, it underscores how, for me,

Will Sasso (1:39:55.720)

look, man, my salvation has always been,

Lex Fridman (1:39:58.040)

and I feel so fortunate to have had it,

Will Sasso (1:40:00.800)

is this kind of chill, boring kind of upbringing

Lex Fridman (1:40:04.800)

that I want for my kids someday,

Lex Fridman (1:40:08.600)

and I can't wait to get back to my house

Lex Fridman (1:40:12.360)

with my fiance and the dogs, you know,

Will Sasso (1:40:15.140)

until we have kids.

Lex Fridman (1:40:16.680)

Live in a cabin in Canada somewhere.

Will Sasso (1:40:20.040)

Absolutely, I just wanna buy some land over an aquifer,

Lex Fridman (1:40:23.160)

as I like to say, because water will be the new money,

Lex Fridman (1:40:25.800)

and just make sure that all my kids are drinking

Lex Fridman (1:40:30.200)

as much H2O as I am, which is a lot.

Will Sasso (1:40:33.600)

I'm peeing right now, as a matter of fact.

Lex Fridman (1:40:35.840)

Do you need a bathroom?

Will Sasso (1:40:37.800)

No, no, no, I got it.

Lex Fridman (1:40:38.620)

Not anymore?

Will Sasso (1:40:39.460)

No, I'm wearing two layers, it depends, don't worry about it.

Lex Fridman (1:40:40.960)

Good, so I did a podcast with Bobby Lee

Lex Fridman (1:40:44.880)

and he said, he was extremely kind,

Lex Fridman (1:40:48.340)

and he said that he was scared shitless

Will Sasso (1:40:51.080)

to be on the podcast, and he actually literally took,

Lex Fridman (1:40:55.480)

he asked as the first thing to go take a dump

Will Sasso (1:40:58.440)

because of how scared he was.

Lex Fridman (1:41:00.320)

So that leads me to a question,

Lex Fridman (1:41:01.520)

what's the scariest thing you've ever done?

Lex Fridman (1:41:04.640)

Or maybe what's the scariest you've ever been

Lex Fridman (1:41:07.500)

before a performance?

Lex Fridman (1:41:11.880)

I mean, I always get a little nervous.

Will Sasso (1:41:13.320)

I think you're doing it right if you're still nervous.

Lex Fridman (1:41:16.160)

Were you nervous today?

Will Sasso (1:41:18.360)

Well, no, man, because this isn't a performance.

Lex Fridman (1:41:20.260)

I'm being completely genuine.

Will Sasso (1:41:22.400)

You're wearing a suit.

Lex Fridman (1:41:23.860)

Yeah, that was.

Will Sasso (1:41:24.700)

I feel like that makes you nervous.

Lex Fridman (1:41:26.480)

Wearing a suit?

Will Sasso (1:41:27.320)

It makes me nervous.

Lex Fridman (1:41:28.160)

Listen, I hate wearing a fucking collar.

Will Sasso (1:41:29.600)

If you're watching this on YouTube,

Lex Fridman (1:41:30.920)

you can see me just, I'm constantly doing,

Will Sasso (1:41:33.640)

it's like I'm doing a cheap Rodney Dangerfield,

Lex Fridman (1:41:36.280)

but I am truly.

Lex Fridman (1:41:37.120)

But when you move your head, it kind of makes it seem

Lex Fridman (1:41:39.080)

like you're a mobster who's pissed off a little bit.

Will Sasso (1:41:42.720)

You fucking crossed me one last time, you son of a.

Lex Fridman (1:41:46.040)

You know, this mutt, I think it's the first time

Will Sasso (1:41:49.480)

I've fucking dug a hole, I'll dig a fucking hole, Jesus.

Lex Fridman (1:41:53.360)

No, but truly, I hate having a collar.

Will Sasso (1:41:55.920)

I can't wait to just wear pajamas in that fucking cabin

Lex Fridman (1:41:59.440)

or nothing at all, walk around Bobby Lee style.

Will Sasso (1:42:02.540)

The most scared I've been before a performance,

Lex Fridman (1:42:07.040)

I can't pinpoint anything.

Lex Fridman (1:42:09.640)

I, you know, when I was a kid, right?

Lex Fridman (1:42:12.760)

I, like I said, I was fortunate enough to start acting

Will Sasso (1:42:15.960)

as a teen and stuff professionally.

Lex Fridman (1:42:18.520)

And I just remember my first gig.

Lex Fridman (1:42:20.580)

And I remember saying my handful of lines

Lex Fridman (1:42:23.880)

in the bathroom mirror the night before going,

Will Sasso (1:42:28.200)

this might be my only fucking shot.

Lex Fridman (1:42:30.100)

You're not gonna get me, I'm gonna be solid.

Lex Fridman (1:42:33.420)

And if I'm worried about something,

Lex Fridman (1:42:37.680)

I will rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it

Will Sasso (1:42:40.320)

as an actor until it's impossible for me

Lex Fridman (1:42:43.360)

not to get a take at least that I'm 100%,

Will Sasso (1:42:48.360)

if not 95, maybe percent happy with.

Lex Fridman (1:42:52.120)

And the rest for me is letting go, which is hard

Will Sasso (1:42:54.200)

because I can be a real perfectionist.

Lex Fridman (1:42:56.880)

I always want another,

Will Sasso (1:42:58.600)

I always wanna do it a little better.

Lex Fridman (1:43:00.560)

That's what's great about podcasting.

Will Sasso (1:43:01.920)

This is one take and you're done, there's no takes.

Lex Fridman (1:43:05.260)

You're just talking and then it's over.

Lex Fridman (1:43:07.240)

And you're doing some silly stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:43:09.600)

And I'll, you know.

Lex Fridman (1:43:11.720)

Can you say that part again about why podcasting is great?

Lex Fridman (1:43:14.520)

Podcasting is great?

Will Sasso (1:43:15.440)

Yeah, because it's one take and it's over.

Lex Fridman (1:43:17.060)

It's just, what, I said it again?

Will Sasso (1:43:20.440)

Ah, fuck.

Lex Fridman (1:43:22.280)

I see what you did.

Lex Fridman (1:43:23.800)

And yeah, I fell right for it.

Lex Fridman (1:43:25.840)

I'm playing checkers and you're playing chess.

Will Sasso (1:43:27.880)

That's your problem.

Lex Fridman (1:43:29.720)

You know, but still when we do the podcast,

Will Sasso (1:43:32.560)

we'll like finish and I'll look over at Chad

Lex Fridman (1:43:34.000)

and I go, that one thing that I did wasn't that funny.

Will Sasso (1:43:37.080)

I was like, shut up, man.

Lex Fridman (1:43:38.360)

Just, it doesn't matter.

Will Sasso (1:43:40.120)

It's a fucking hang.

Lex Fridman (1:43:41.400)

We're just, we're hanging with our friends out there.

Will Sasso (1:43:43.840)

That's what we're doing.

Lex Fridman (1:43:44.840)

So that anxiety is there.

Will Sasso (1:43:46.600)

That self criticism or whatever that is, that voice.

Lex Fridman (1:43:49.360)

I say sorry after takes.

Will Sasso (1:43:51.120)

I'll always finish a take and go.

Lex Fridman (1:43:53.320)

And I've had directors, to the detriment of myself,

Will Sasso (1:43:56.320)

I've had directors be like, stop doing that.

Lex Fridman (1:43:59.440)

Because I'll like finish the take

Lex Fridman (1:44:00.400)

and then I also have like the will phase.

Lex Fridman (1:44:02.840)

When I'm just like, I'll finish the take and cut.

Lex Fridman (1:44:06.000)

And I'm making a face right now, like I smelled something.

Lex Fridman (1:44:08.160)

That's what I'll do.

Will Sasso (1:44:09.280)

I'll literally be like, ah, cause I just,

Lex Fridman (1:44:13.360)

I look at what I do in the purest sense as,

Will Sasso (1:44:23.280)

I think a lot of people wanna be good at something.

Lex Fridman (1:44:26.440)

I've only, the only thing I've ever really wanted

Will Sasso (1:44:30.120)

to be good at is being an actor.

Lex Fridman (1:44:33.880)

And that's the only thing,

Will Sasso (1:44:37.120)

of course I wanna be a good person.

Lex Fridman (1:44:38.640)

I wanna be a good partner to my fiance.

Will Sasso (1:44:41.360)

I wanna have kids and be the father that I had.

Lex Fridman (1:44:45.640)

And I wanna be the parent that I had from my parents

Will Sasso (1:44:48.760)

who were fucking amazing, wonderful people.

Lex Fridman (1:44:51.680)

And there's all those things.

Will Sasso (1:44:53.520)

That's all, you know, you should want all those things.

Lex Fridman (1:44:56.240)

But as far as doing a thing, like what is my trade?

Will Sasso (1:45:00.600)

You know, I wanna be really good at it.

Lex Fridman (1:45:04.760)

My parents grew up in Napoli in Italy, right?

Lex Fridman (1:45:08.240)

And I say Napoli, cause I'm Italian.

Lex Fridman (1:45:10.520)

And so my grandfather on my mom's side, my nonopepe,

Will Sasso (1:45:13.600)

he was a plumber and he was also like a handyman.

Lex Fridman (1:45:18.400)

Like people would bring him like,

Will Sasso (1:45:20.160)

you know like the old Chianti bottle

Lex Fridman (1:45:21.560)

with like with the woven bottom part.

Will Sasso (1:45:24.320)

People would bring him like a broken bottle,

Lex Fridman (1:45:26.440)

be like, hey, you know, Giuseppe, can you fix this?

Lex Fridman (1:45:29.080)

And he'd be saying,

Lex Fridman (1:45:29.920)

if you're telling the backstory of Mario,

Will Sasso (1:45:31.600)

that's not actually your family life.

Lex Fridman (1:45:33.200)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:45:34.040)

But okay.

Lex Fridman (1:45:34.880)

He said I'm a fix.

Will Sasso (1:45:35.720)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:45:36.560)

And so Giuseppe, what?

Will Sasso (1:45:37.440)

He would fix a bottle and give it back to someone.

Lex Fridman (1:45:40.240)

And he was a really good plumber.

Will Sasso (1:45:43.320)

My mom used to always say that guy was an amazing,

Lex Fridman (1:45:45.600)

he was a great.

Lex Fridman (1:45:46.680)

He took pride in that?

Lex Fridman (1:45:47.560)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (1:45:48.400)

I always feel like, you know,

Lex Fridman (1:45:51.640)

there's what you set out to do

Will Sasso (1:45:53.560)

as an idealistic little teenager.

Lex Fridman (1:45:55.480)

I wanna be like so and so,

Lex Fridman (1:45:57.240)

and I wanna, you know, hear my big dreams and stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:46:00.360)

And I can't believe that I'm still in the business.

Will Sasso (1:46:02.960)

Okay.

Lex Fridman (1:46:03.800)

That's, first of all, let me say that right now.

Will Sasso (1:46:06.480)

I can't believe it.

Lex Fridman (1:46:08.400)

But what I really, it's the one thing that it's like,

Will Sasso (1:46:13.200)

I can't give up on a take.

Lex Fridman (1:46:15.160)

You know, I need it to be as good as I can possibly get it.

Lex Fridman (1:46:18.560)

And I don't really know why that is

Lex Fridman (1:46:21.200)

outside of wanting to be good at something.

Will Sasso (1:46:24.400)

When you open the yellow pages, if I'm a plumber,

Lex Fridman (1:46:27.360)

I'm not, you know, I'm not Roto Rooter.

Will Sasso (1:46:30.280)

Like I'm not the guy with the big full page ad,

Lex Fridman (1:46:32.760)

but I'm also not, you know, triple A abacus brothers

Will Sasso (1:46:36.760)

or whatever, like the shitty one.

Lex Fridman (1:46:39.120)

I would like to hope that just,

Lex Fridman (1:46:42.160)

and I'm saying this with pride for what I do.

Lex Fridman (1:46:44.640)

I'm not trying to say here's my standing

Will Sasso (1:46:46.400)

or where I wanna be in the fucking business.

Lex Fridman (1:46:48.480)

That's not what I mean.

Will Sasso (1:46:49.880)

I mean that I wanna be good at it.

Lex Fridman (1:46:51.560)

You know, we all, hello?

Will Sasso (1:46:52.720)

I'm in Friedman Enterprises.

Lex Fridman (1:46:56.160)

So that's the hotel phone.

Will Sasso (1:46:59.440)

Come on.

Lex Fridman (1:47:02.440)

Hello?

Lex Fridman (1:47:05.920)

Hello?

Lex Fridman (1:47:08.880)

You got some fruit?

Lex Fridman (1:47:11.960)

Some sliced fruit?

Lex Fridman (1:47:12.800)

No, do you want some sliced fruit?

Will Sasso (1:47:14.280)

I'm all good.

Lex Fridman (1:47:15.120)

No, we're good, thank you so much.

Will Sasso (1:47:17.120)

All right, bye bye.

Lex Fridman (1:47:18.400)

It's always a fruit plate.

Will Sasso (1:47:20.720)

Everyone's always trying to hand you a fruit plate

Lex Fridman (1:47:22.680)

in life, you know?

Will Sasso (1:47:23.520)

It's a pretty sweet existence.

Lex Fridman (1:47:24.360)

Wouldn't it be funny if that was actually like the CIA

Lex Fridman (1:47:26.440)

and they were actually saying something else

Lex Fridman (1:47:28.000)

and this is, I'm just saying fake stuff about,

Lex Fridman (1:47:30.080)

you want some fruit?

Lex Fridman (1:47:31.080)

You want some fruit?

Lex Fridman (1:47:32.080)

And then all of a sudden there's the red dot on my head

Lex Fridman (1:47:33.920)

and the ceiling disappears.

Lex Fridman (1:47:35.440)

And the CIA was like, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up.

Lex Fridman (1:47:38.640)

Wrap it up.

Will Sasso (1:47:40.240)

You jump out the window and there's a helicopter waiting.

Lex Fridman (1:47:43.440)

Oh, what were we talking about?

Will Sasso (1:47:45.200)

The fruit distracted me.

Lex Fridman (1:47:46.200)

So, oh, the, do you wanna be the yellow page ad?

Will Sasso (1:47:50.840)

I wanna be the guy on the second or third page

Lex Fridman (1:47:54.520)

where it's like, you're not gonna pay

Lex Fridman (1:47:56.920)

what that guy charges you,

Lex Fridman (1:47:58.000)

but I'm not gonna charge you what this loser charges.

Will Sasso (1:48:02.040)

I wanna break down the middle and the work is guaranteed.

Lex Fridman (1:48:05.160)

That's kind of what I wanna,

Will Sasso (1:48:07.600)

it's the one thing that I've been fortunate enough

Lex Fridman (1:48:10.920)

to be doing my whole life and that I wanna be good at.

Will Sasso (1:48:15.360)

Everyone wants to be good at something.

Lex Fridman (1:48:16.680)

If you're fortunate enough to be able to do

Lex Fridman (1:48:19.240)

what you love as a job, I mean, my God, I'm so,

Lex Fridman (1:48:23.280)

again, I can't believe I get to do it.

Will Sasso (1:48:25.240)

I just wanna be good at it so that I can fucking die someday

Lex Fridman (1:48:29.160)

and go, eh.

Will Sasso (1:48:30.920)

I tried not to give up on a take and I,

Lex Fridman (1:48:34.000)

and I will rehearse it still in the bathroom mirror

Will Sasso (1:48:37.040)

the night before if I have to.

Lex Fridman (1:48:39.320)

Yeah, but I still, I have that self critical voice.

Will Sasso (1:48:41.680)

I just, after every podcast, after this podcast,

Lex Fridman (1:48:45.560)

I'll probably be like, you're boring.

Lex Fridman (1:48:48.120)

Why are you so boring?

Lex Fridman (1:48:49.120)

That, that, that, that, that, that, that.

Lex Fridman (1:48:50.760)

And I just gave a lecture at MIT.

Lex Fridman (1:48:53.080)

I was like, I get so much love from people.

Will Sasso (1:48:56.840)

They're such beautiful people.

Lex Fridman (1:48:59.080)

And I just remember walking home,

Lex Fridman (1:49:02.720)

just feeling like I wasted everybody's time, you know?

Lex Fridman (1:49:07.080)

And I don't know what that is.

Will Sasso (1:49:09.360)

I don't, you know, I do hope that that's a voice

Lex Fridman (1:49:11.760)

that won't destroy me, you know, like every time.

Will Sasso (1:49:14.960)

That's really human of you to admit that

Lex Fridman (1:49:16.880)

because people don't wanna, they wouldn't assume that,

Will Sasso (1:49:20.240)

of course, from you or anything that, I mean,

Lex Fridman (1:49:22.600)

you've got a large group of students in there

Will Sasso (1:49:26.440)

listening to you and feeling the way

Lex Fridman (1:49:28.160)

and thinking what they think of you.

Lex Fridman (1:49:31.080)

So that's really interesting to hear you admit that,

Lex Fridman (1:49:34.120)

but it's also, I would expect nothing else.

Will Sasso (1:49:36.600)

You have to be able to, it's such a,

Lex Fridman (1:49:39.120)

I mean, you're a human fucking being.

Lex Fridman (1:49:40.560)

And I'm trying to figure out if that, you know,

Lex Fridman (1:49:43.400)

some people that might hear that, they would say,

Will Sasso (1:49:45.040)

well, that's a problem you have to fix.

Lex Fridman (1:49:47.160)

And I think that that might be just who I am.

Will Sasso (1:49:52.400)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:49:53.240)

Because I'm not, you know, I've been very, very fortunate

Will Sasso (1:49:55.680)

not to have chemical, you know, like depression

Lex Fridman (1:49:59.720)

where I get into a dark place.

Will Sasso (1:50:01.480)

I could get stuck in a downward spiral.

Lex Fridman (1:50:04.400)

It's usually a thing that lasts.

Will Sasso (1:50:06.760)

You ride it out and then after a good night's sleep,

Lex Fridman (1:50:10.360)

you're back to your happy self.

Lex Fridman (1:50:13.600)

So I think I have to try to figure that out.

Lex Fridman (1:50:17.880)

Is that just part of the creative process,

Lex Fridman (1:50:19.560)

being a creative human in this world?

Lex Fridman (1:50:21.880)

I haven't found any other way.

Will Sasso (1:50:23.480)

I'm always kicking myself.

Lex Fridman (1:50:24.640)

Take that, dude, so you can't, you're not gonna be human

Will Sasso (1:50:29.640)

until you feel some despair.

Lex Fridman (1:50:30.960)

Yeah, until you absolutely hate the shit

Will Sasso (1:50:33.360)

that you're doing sometimes.

Lex Fridman (1:50:34.760)

What small act of kindness were you once shown

Lex Fridman (1:50:39.160)

that you will never forget?

Lex Fridman (1:50:40.880)

Do you, does something jump to mind

Lex Fridman (1:50:42.800)

where somebody just did something that made you smile?

Lex Fridman (1:50:47.840)

Did you feel connected to the rest of humanity?

Lex Fridman (1:50:52.600)

Yeah, yeah, lots of things, you know?

Lex Fridman (1:50:57.640)

But I remember my niece one time,

Will Sasso (1:51:00.280)

one of my nieces, we were in her neighborhood

Lex Fridman (1:51:04.480)

and she was like, she might've been five or six at the time.

Will Sasso (1:51:09.280)

They're all adults now.

Lex Fridman (1:51:10.560)

My brother and sister are older than me

Lex Fridman (1:51:12.200)

and the kids are all, the youngest is 22.

Lex Fridman (1:51:15.120)

And yeah, anyway, one of my nieces,

Will Sasso (1:51:17.560)

she was just, she had ice cream.

Lex Fridman (1:51:18.960)

We went out and we got ice cream

Will Sasso (1:51:20.120)

walking around the neighborhood, her neighborhood.

Lex Fridman (1:51:22.200)

And she said something to me that I don't think

Will Sasso (1:51:25.560)

she understands how much it meant at the time,

Lex Fridman (1:51:27.600)

but she goes, she goes, people love you here.

Lex Fridman (1:51:30.440)

You know that?

Lex Fridman (1:51:31.360)

And she doesn't know where here is.

Will Sasso (1:51:33.120)

She's five years old, but she was just looking

Lex Fridman (1:51:35.360)

at the kids playing in the park

Lex Fridman (1:51:36.840)

and the people walking their dogs

Lex Fridman (1:51:38.320)

and everyone just, people love you here, you know that?

Lex Fridman (1:51:41.280)

But she didn't know how much I needed to hear that

Lex Fridman (1:51:43.360)

at that point, which is really heavy for me.

Will Sasso (1:51:45.960)

I'll never forget it.

Lex Fridman (1:51:47.040)

I've never told her that.

Will Sasso (1:51:48.360)

Oh, well, man, anytime you get a little something

Lex Fridman (1:51:52.320)

from people, especially in a tear your ass out city

Will Sasso (1:51:55.520)

like LA where nobody has any fucking time for you,

Lex Fridman (1:51:58.640)

when someone can slow it down and say something, you know?

Will Sasso (1:52:02.720)

I saw this actor once in my grocery store that I go to

Lex Fridman (1:52:07.920)

who made me laugh so fucking hard in this one movie

Lex Fridman (1:52:10.960)

and every time I see this clip, I still laugh.

Lex Fridman (1:52:13.440)

And I am kind of shy, you know, personally,

Lex Fridman (1:52:17.240)

but so he was walking by, he was walking out

Lex Fridman (1:52:20.600)

and I was walking in and I go, oh, that's that guy.

Lex Fridman (1:52:23.040)

And I did not stop to just let him know

Lex Fridman (1:52:27.440)

how great I thought he was in this film.

Lex Fridman (1:52:29.280)

And I always kind of regretted it.

Lex Fridman (1:52:31.120)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (1:52:31.960)

So as hard as it is, and sometimes I still don't,

Lex Fridman (1:52:35.040)

if I see someone that has done something in any way,

Will Sasso (1:52:39.240)

it doesn't have to be in show business or anything like that.

Lex Fridman (1:52:42.760)

I'll try and say, hey, that's really good.

Lex Fridman (1:52:46.320)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (1:52:48.720)

Because to get that from someone can mean a lot, you know?

Will Sasso (1:52:54.600)

It can mean a lot.

Lex Fridman (1:52:55.440)

At a certain time in life when you need it.

Will Sasso (1:52:57.360)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:52:58.200)

That can make a big difference.

Will Sasso (1:52:59.560)

I mean, sorry to take it back to my new girlfriend,

Lex Fridman (1:53:03.440)

the waitress.

Will Sasso (1:53:04.280)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:53:05.120)

But there's something about her saying sweetheart.

Will Sasso (1:53:08.320)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:53:09.160)

It's a pretty low place for some reason mentally.

Lex Fridman (1:53:11.520)

And it's just that basic human kindness was nice.

Lex Fridman (1:53:14.840)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Sasso (1:53:16.480)

I hear you.

Lex Fridman (1:53:17.320)

I was at a restaurant in New York recently

Lex Fridman (1:53:21.080)

and I was shooting something

Lex Fridman (1:53:22.280)

and my fiance was able to fly in for a week.

Lex Fridman (1:53:25.040)

And she was back at the hotel

Lex Fridman (1:53:27.880)

and it's like I felt like I was cheating on her

Will Sasso (1:53:29.440)

because there was this nice waitress

Lex Fridman (1:53:31.280)

at this barbecue place I went to.

Lex Fridman (1:53:33.240)

And first of all, my fiance would not like me

Lex Fridman (1:53:35.480)

eating any greasy, sugary barbecue.

Lex Fridman (1:53:37.600)

So I felt like I was cheating on her there.

Lex Fridman (1:53:39.200)

We'll edit this out and put delicious vegan food over it.

Lex Fridman (1:53:42.280)

But the waitress was one of these,

Lex Fridman (1:53:44.680)

she was the kind of server who's like,

Will Sasso (1:53:47.520)

hey hun, hey sweetie, blah, blah, blah.

Lex Fridman (1:53:49.680)

But like so chill and at ease

Will Sasso (1:53:52.960)

in the middle of a part of New York

Lex Fridman (1:53:54.520)

that's really kind of fucking pretentious and everybody.

Lex Fridman (1:53:59.520)

But sweet people, fucking way better people

Lex Fridman (1:54:02.960)

than we got here.

Lex Fridman (1:54:03.800)

But I know that.

Lex Fridman (1:54:07.080)

But it was part of New York and whatever,

Will Sasso (1:54:09.200)

I'm there working and people,

Lex Fridman (1:54:10.720)

I'm like, I'm trying to impress one another.

Lex Fridman (1:54:12.800)

And she even had some sort of an accent

Lex Fridman (1:54:15.760)

that didn't feel like an Atlantic American accent.

Will Sasso (1:54:21.440)

Yeah, those servers that say sweetheart and hun,

Lex Fridman (1:54:26.280)

that's what we need from AI.

Will Sasso (1:54:27.960)

We need that Jetson server.

Lex Fridman (1:54:30.400)

Every once in a while just calls you sweetheart.

Lex Fridman (1:54:33.240)

What comforts you on bad days?

Lex Fridman (1:54:36.160)

Oh man.

Lex Fridman (1:54:37.000)

Is there little sources of comfort?

Lex Fridman (1:54:39.440)

Small things they do that kind of make you feel good.

Will Sasso (1:54:43.120)

Like for Bobby, that'd be a little Skyrim.

Lex Fridman (1:54:45.880)

A little stroll through Skyrim.

Lex Fridman (1:54:48.720)

Well, I've been a line of coke or what?

Lex Fridman (1:54:51.560)

Yeah, a line of coke.

Will Sasso (1:54:52.760)

I dilute some coke into whiskey in the morning

Lex Fridman (1:54:54.920)

like Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Lex Fridman (1:54:56.440)

And then I snort the whiskey.

Lex Fridman (1:54:57.280)

Oh, she did that, I didn't know that.

Will Sasso (1:54:58.120)

Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, interesting.

Lex Fridman (1:55:00.080)

Yeah, he didn't last too long, weird.

Will Sasso (1:55:02.200)

Well, his music will last forever.

Lex Fridman (1:55:04.480)

See, there you go.

Will Sasso (1:55:06.040)

For me, if I, I'm kind of a homebody.

Lex Fridman (1:55:10.760)

So if I, the point at which I smoke just a little bit of pot

Lex Fridman (1:55:17.520)

and then go like lay down on the couch

Lex Fridman (1:55:21.040)

and perhaps if my fiancee's kind of nodding off

Will Sasso (1:55:26.320)

or she's just like looking at her phone

Lex Fridman (1:55:27.960)

and I sneakily turn on some wrestling, okay?

Will Sasso (1:55:30.880)

Because I grew up watching wrestling

Lex Fridman (1:55:32.560)

and that stuff, it's the Skyrim effect.

Will Sasso (1:55:35.080)

I mean, you want to talk about a complete escape.

Lex Fridman (1:55:37.800)

This stuff makes no sense in the world.

Will Sasso (1:55:40.000)

It's an art form that is so uniquely weird,

Lex Fridman (1:55:43.840)

but at the same time, so everyone, when it's good,

Will Sasso (1:55:49.520)

everyone is invested in the illusion, even the audience.

Lex Fridman (1:55:54.000)

They cheer the good guys, they boo the bad guys.

Lex Fridman (1:55:56.960)

So if I'm like that,

Lex Fridman (1:55:58.080)

and then I got our two cute little dogs there

Lex Fridman (1:56:00.360)

and I'm annoying my little dog Lulio

Lex Fridman (1:56:02.240)

and trying to kiss him right on the fucking mouth

Lex Fridman (1:56:05.000)

and I've had a little bit of pot

Lex Fridman (1:56:06.120)

and the dog's like, stop, pot's not good for me.

Will Sasso (1:56:09.240)

Of course, don't ever blow pot in your dog's face.

Lex Fridman (1:56:11.360)

That's a small comfort.

Will Sasso (1:56:13.680)

I guess that's a handful of things.

Lex Fridman (1:56:15.600)

No, that moment painted, that was like a little painting.

Lex Fridman (1:56:19.120)

What about you?

Lex Fridman (1:56:24.480)

You're not supposed to do this.

Will Sasso (1:56:25.720)

I will.

Lex Fridman (1:56:26.560)

You're not supposed to do this.

Will Sasso (1:56:28.480)

That's a good question.

Lex Fridman (1:56:29.880)

Yeah, it's a tough question.

Will Sasso (1:56:34.360)

I would say programming robots.

Lex Fridman (1:56:39.640)

There's bringing to life, actually programming at all.

Lex Fridman (1:56:43.600)

So I don't know how familiar you are with programming,

Lex Fridman (1:56:47.000)

but you write some text on a page, right, on a screen

Lex Fridman (1:56:53.560)

and it's brought to life, like it does something.

Lex Fridman (1:56:56.440)

And that's kind of, that's a really tiny version

Will Sasso (1:57:01.400)

of maybe having a child.

Lex Fridman (1:57:03.720)

Like you created something that is now living

Will Sasso (1:57:08.480)

in some smaller big way with embodied robots

Lex Fridman (1:57:11.400)

that are legged robots, that's especially clear.

Lex Fridman (1:57:14.920)

And for some reason, that's a source of comfort for me,

Lex Fridman (1:57:19.320)

that the power of programming,

Lex Fridman (1:57:22.640)

but also the elegance of programming, just the whole thing.

Lex Fridman (1:57:25.320)

It's a source of happiness.

Will Sasso (1:57:29.040)

There's so many things I've been very blessed

Lex Fridman (1:57:31.200)

with enjoying anything.

Will Sasso (1:57:34.120)

Like that's part of the struggle I have in life

Lex Fridman (1:57:36.360)

is that the simple stuff is a source

Will Sasso (1:57:38.440)

of a lot of happiness for me,

Lex Fridman (1:57:40.000)

which leads to a lot of laziness.

Lex Fridman (1:57:42.440)

So I have to like give myself artificial deadlines.

Lex Fridman (1:57:45.840)

I have to be freaking out on purpose

Will Sasso (1:57:48.160)

in order to be productive in this world at all.

Lex Fridman (1:57:50.920)

You seem like an extremely dutiful, busy guy.

Will Sasso (1:57:53.920)

No.

Lex Fridman (1:57:54.760)

No, I am, but because I'm constantly creating

Will Sasso (1:57:57.520)

artificial stress and deadlines and all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (1:58:02.600)

Otherwise, I would just sit there looking at a tree happy.

Will Sasso (1:58:05.520)

I'm truly happy with everything.

Lex Fridman (1:58:08.640)

That's awesome.

Will Sasso (1:58:09.800)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (1:58:10.640)

Gee whiz, that's not.

Will Sasso (1:58:12.880)

Well, that's the line of Coke in the whiskey in the morning.

Lex Fridman (1:58:15.920)

That's the thing that does the trick.

Will Sasso (1:58:18.520)

TV Ray Vaughan breakfast shake.

Lex Fridman (1:58:21.000)

By the way, one of my most favorite guitars.

Will Sasso (1:58:23.120)

I play guitar too, that's a source of comfort.

Lex Fridman (1:58:24.600)

Oh yeah, I have seen you play some guitar, that's awesome.

Lex Fridman (1:58:27.000)

Who's the greatest wrestler of all time?

Lex Fridman (1:58:29.000)

Greatest in ring performer of all time

Will Sasso (1:58:30.760)

is Bret the Hitman Hart.

Lex Fridman (1:58:32.200)

What's the difference in ring versus?

Will Sasso (1:58:33.880)

Well, there's many facets to the art form.

Lex Fridman (1:58:36.960)

A lot of people are great on the mic,

Lex Fridman (1:58:39.320)

but they're not so great once they get in the ring.

Lex Fridman (1:58:41.800)

A lot of people have all the showmanship and stuff,

Lex Fridman (1:58:44.960)

but then they're not necessarily, it's a wonderful package,

Lex Fridman (1:58:48.600)

but then they get to the ring or they open their mouth

Lex Fridman (1:58:50.640)

and there's nothing going on.

Lex Fridman (1:58:52.000)

So who's the greatest in ring performer?

Will Sasso (1:58:53.800)

I think the greatest in ring is Bret Hart.

Lex Fridman (1:58:56.120)

I don't think there's anyone better

Will Sasso (1:58:57.360)

than Bret the Hitman Hart.

Lex Fridman (1:59:01.000)

What makes him so good?

Will Sasso (1:59:02.800)

Well, he...

Lex Fridman (1:59:03.640)

I think I had an action figure of him in Russia

Lex Fridman (1:59:06.720)

and we didn't know what the hell that was.

Lex Fridman (1:59:08.280)

Sure, yeah, it was just a guy in pink tights.

Will Sasso (1:59:11.720)

Everything makes sense.

Lex Fridman (1:59:12.640)

Every single thing is rooted in the thing

Will Sasso (1:59:15.040)

that just happened and everything that he does

Lex Fridman (1:59:18.040)

is to set up what he's going to do.

Will Sasso (1:59:21.040)

They call it, and I'm just a wrestling nerd,

Lex Fridman (1:59:22.960)

but the wrestlers, I guess, call it ring psychology.

Will Sasso (1:59:26.560)

The things that you have to do to make it seem

Lex Fridman (1:59:29.280)

like you're suffering or you're coming from behind

Will Sasso (1:59:32.120)

or whatever, and then also just the physicality of it.

Lex Fridman (1:59:34.320)

He does it at a...

Will Sasso (1:59:35.160)

He would do it at a 100 miles an hour

Lex Fridman (1:59:38.160)

and never hurt anybody.

Will Sasso (1:59:40.160)

Although,

Lex Fridman (1:59:42.960)

I also love the every...

Will Sasso (1:59:45.760)

The greatest wrestler of all time, everyone says,

Lex Fridman (1:59:47.960)

and they're right, is Ric Flair, nature boy, Ric Flair.

Lex Fridman (1:59:51.960)

Everyone says this?

Lex Fridman (1:59:53.080)

Yeah, I think if you know what you're talking about.

Will Sasso (1:59:56.280)

Because he's the best on the mic,

Lex Fridman (1:59:57.600)

he's also incredible in the ring.

Lex Fridman (20:01.080)

and all that good stuff.

Lex Fridman (20:02.480)

Hopefully, vice versa.

Lex Fridman (20:04.240)

And then.

Lex Fridman (20:05.080)

Well, on your recent Instagram,

Will Sasso (20:06.800)

she said that she loves you, so.

Lex Fridman (20:09.520)

Wow, you were.

Will Sasso (20:10.360)

At least allegedly.

Lex Fridman (20:11.200)

Just on, yeah, allegedly.

Will Sasso (20:12.100)

That might all be for, yeah.

Lex Fridman (20:13.640)

That's all.

Lex Fridman (20:14.480)

How much money did you pay her to say that?

Lex Fridman (20:15.680)

I don't have any, because I'm not a stand up.

Lex Fridman (20:18.160)

I was like, I can do, you got Venmo?

Lex Fridman (20:20.820)

Yeah, yeah.

Will Sasso (20:21.660)

I got, I only have like $123.

Lex Fridman (20:23.080)

I can give you some Dogecoin.

Will Sasso (20:24.320)

Yeah, some Doge.

Lex Fridman (20:25.320)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (20:26.160)

You got, you want some Doge?

Lex Fridman (20:27.840)

I got some of those monkey NFTs.

Will Sasso (20:30.340)

Oh, before I forget.

Lex Fridman (20:31.380)

Yes.

Will Sasso (20:32.360)

Hold on a second.

Lex Fridman (20:33.720)

Oh, no.

Will Sasso (20:35.280)

Put a dudesie sticker on your microphone if that's okay.

Lex Fridman (20:38.000)

Sure.

Will Sasso (20:39.800)

Here.

Lex Fridman (20:40.800)

Oh, yeah.

Will Sasso (20:41.640)

Now, these are tricky,

Lex Fridman (20:42.460)

because I have the thumbs of a,

Will Sasso (20:44.000)

I have like Italian sausage thumbs.

Lex Fridman (20:45.240)

Don't wait and watch this happen.

Will Sasso (20:46.840)

I'm just gonna.

Lex Fridman (20:48.080)

This will take another.

Will Sasso (20:49.600)

Yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman (20:51.800)

Oh, man.

Will Sasso (20:52.640)

Yeah, ooh, this is embarrassing.

Lex Fridman (20:53.800)

When this, are you good under pressure?

Will Sasso (20:57.000)

Sure.

Lex Fridman (20:57.840)

I have anxiety.

Will Sasso (20:58.660)

I have performance anxiety.

Lex Fridman (20:59.760)

Do you have anxiety?

Will Sasso (21:01.000)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (21:01.840)

You have anxiety, period?

Will Sasso (21:02.660)

Period.

Lex Fridman (21:03.500)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (21:04.340)

I, I.

Lex Fridman (21:05.160)

Like, I don't like it when I,

Will Sasso (21:06.000)

if I have to pee and then everyone's waiting

Lex Fridman (21:09.040)

in the urinals.

Will Sasso (21:10.080)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (21:10.900)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (21:11.740)

I don't like it.

Lex Fridman (21:12.560)

You know what'll help you in that situation?

Lex Fridman (21:13.400)

What's that?

Lex Fridman (21:14.240)

Taking a shit.

Will Sasso (21:15.120)

Because whenever you take a shit,

Lex Fridman (21:16.840)

you always pee a little.

Will Sasso (21:18.120)

It's hard to take a shit while you're standing at a urinal,

Lex Fridman (21:20.800)

but.

Will Sasso (21:21.620)

Not in my world.

Lex Fridman (21:22.840)

Okay.

Will Sasso (21:23.680)

You just gotta keep yourself full of things

Lex Fridman (21:24.520)

that make you shit.

Will Sasso (21:25.440)

Oh, good.

Lex Fridman (21:26.280)

Have you ever heard of a banana?

Will Sasso (21:28.020)

I did recently.

Lex Fridman (21:29.120)

Somebody told me about it.

Will Sasso (21:29.960)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (21:30.780)

Not the showbiz term.

Will Sasso (21:31.720)

I'm talking about the food.

Lex Fridman (21:33.160)

There you go.

Will Sasso (21:34.000)

Oh.

Lex Fridman (21:34.820)

There we go.

Will Sasso (21:35.660)

Here you go.

Lex Fridman (21:38.120)

Which way is up?

Lex Fridman (21:38.940)

It's this way, right?

Lex Fridman (21:39.780)

It's like a D.

Will Sasso (21:40.600)

No, to spin it.

Lex Fridman (21:41.440)

There you go.

Will Sasso (21:42.280)

There you go.

Lex Fridman (21:43.100)

All right.

Lex Fridman (21:46.160)

So sexy.

Lex Fridman (21:48.480)

You're like a brand.

Will Sasso (21:50.080)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (21:50.900)

It's very important to brand yourself.

Will Sasso (21:51.940)

These colors.

Lex Fridman (21:52.780)

Are you selling shoes?

Will Sasso (21:55.120)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (21:55.960)

I got some custom kicks coming out.

Will Sasso (21:57.940)

The dudesy.

Lex Fridman (21:59.120)

No.

Will Sasso (21:59.940)

Actually, that would be a good idea.

Lex Fridman (22:01.880)

You could probably sell a pair or two of those.

Will Sasso (22:03.880)

Speaking of anxiety,

Lex Fridman (22:04.840)

I really am only focused on this right now, Alex.

Will Sasso (22:07.560)

I apologize.

Lex Fridman (22:08.380)

Just shit your pants.

Will Sasso (22:09.400)

It'll make it easier.

Lex Fridman (22:10.720)

Get on with it.

Will Sasso (22:12.080)

Oh, this thing has been dog eared in my pocket for a while.

Lex Fridman (22:14.400)

I swear this never happens to me.

Will Sasso (22:16.220)

I'm sorry, babe.

Lex Fridman (22:17.060)

People don't thumb at a sticker for an hour

Lex Fridman (22:18.920)

while they're doing the podcast?

Lex Fridman (22:19.760)

No, this is just an excuse you make

Will Sasso (22:20.980)

when you're with somebody and you're underperforming.

Lex Fridman (22:23.480)

Well, here's the thing.

Will Sasso (22:25.060)

As you ask me questions that I don't wanna answer,

Lex Fridman (22:27.600)

I'll just go to this.

Will Sasso (22:28.440)

Go to the sticker.

Lex Fridman (22:29.320)

So if this ends up working,

Will Sasso (22:32.080)

then I won't have it as a club.

Lex Fridman (22:32.920)

It's funny how you started doing that

Will Sasso (22:34.200)

when we were talking about depression.

Lex Fridman (22:35.460)

That's weird.

Will Sasso (22:36.300)

That is weird.

Lex Fridman (22:38.120)

Tell me how that makes you feel.

Will Sasso (22:42.800)

Here we are.

Lex Fridman (22:43.640)

We got it.

Will Sasso (22:44.480)

For the listener, he succeeded after 10 minutes.

Lex Fridman (22:47.480)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (22:48.320)

You know what?

Lex Fridman (22:49.140)

No, I do have some of that stuff.

Will Sasso (22:51.000)

Bobby Lee had encouraged me on wax, as I like to say,

Lex Fridman (22:56.000)

to talk about it on podcasts, to talk about depression,

Will Sasso (22:59.660)

because it could help people.

Lex Fridman (23:01.220)

And I said, no.

Lex Fridman (23:02.540)

But it's true, I do have some.

Lex Fridman (23:06.140)

There's some history in the family.

Lex Fridman (23:07.940)

How do you overcome it?

Lex Fridman (23:09.420)

Well, I used to not believe in medication at all.

Will Sasso (23:12.660)

I used to think that that was for someone else

Lex Fridman (23:15.060)

who's been diagnosed with some of the rougher stuff.

Lex Fridman (23:20.860)

But as I got older and some of the stuff happens,

Lex Fridman (23:24.380)

and you have to, and by stuff, I mean mental stuff.

Lex Fridman (23:30.380)

And yeah, so I went and I just,

Lex Fridman (23:33.380)

I believe that the stigma needs to be removed completely.

Will Sasso (23:36.620)

5%.

Lex Fridman (23:37.620)

And so I do therapy, I do talk therapy.

Will Sasso (23:41.620)

I'm on a little bit of stuff, which, let me tell you,

Lex Fridman (23:45.620)

when I first started it, I was someone I'm close to.

Will Sasso (23:50.620)

I was like, my manager, and she goes, this is too much.

Lex Fridman (23:58.100)

But she was like, hey, you don't have to white knuckle it

Lex Fridman (24:00.280)

through life, right?

Lex Fridman (24:01.620)

Because I was literally just like, everything became

Will Sasso (24:05.980)

really hard to do at a level that I wanted to do it at,

Lex Fridman (24:09.020)

even just getting through your day, right?

Lex Fridman (24:12.580)

And when I first got some of the meds that I'm on,

Lex Fridman (24:17.580)

it felt like doors and windows were opening,

Will Sasso (24:21.420)

literally in my brain.

Lex Fridman (24:22.540)

I took a three hour nap the first day,

Lex Fridman (24:26.780)

and you shouldn't even feel this stuff the first day.

Lex Fridman (24:29.460)

I think my brain was like, it was like a sponge.

Will Sasso (24:31.500)

It wanted to, I needed some relief.

Lex Fridman (24:33.640)

And I'm not a nap guy.

Will Sasso (24:35.020)

I can sleep three hours and I'll be fine.

Lex Fridman (24:38.280)

But I took a long nap and then it started to help.

Will Sasso (24:43.100)

Yeah, isn't that weird how a little bit of chemistry

Lex Fridman (24:46.260)

in your head can just make the whole world appear

Lex Fridman (24:50.060)

so much more beautiful?

Lex Fridman (24:51.540)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, after all, there's a lot going on

Will Sasso (24:56.580)

in your brain that can be changed by your lifestyle,

Lex Fridman (25:00.300)

but also so many physical things, like a little bit of meds.

Will Sasso (25:03.880)

Or in Bobby's case, thumbing around on some dumb farming app.

Lex Fridman (25:09.700)

Well, Bobby's gone through a few rough periods

Will Sasso (25:12.460)

with drugs and alcohol and all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (25:15.860)

Totally.

Lex Fridman (25:16.700)

And just everything else involved.

Lex Fridman (25:18.820)

I mean, that's the beautiful rollercoaster of who he is,

Lex Fridman (25:21.020)

and a lot of great comedians seem to be that way.

Lex Fridman (25:23.820)

So I wonder what the connection there is.

Lex Fridman (25:25.700)

You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?

Lex Fridman (25:29.100)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (25:29.940)

Like, at some point.

Lex Fridman (25:31.300)

Yes.

Lex Fridman (25:32.900)

On a scale of one to 10, how much crazy do you have?

Lex Fridman (25:37.100)

In some ways, a 10.

Lex Fridman (25:39.780)

And in other ways that I think,

Lex Fridman (25:41.380)

in other ways, sort of functionally,

Will Sasso (25:44.980)

I'm like a two or a three,

Lex Fridman (25:46.940)

because, I don't know, I'm from Canada,

Lex Fridman (25:49.980)

and I try to just keep things very even keeled.

Lex Fridman (25:54.220)

My parents are Italian, they're from Italy,

Lex Fridman (25:57.140)

and they grew up during World War II,

Lex Fridman (26:00.140)

and they're very simple outlook on things.

Will Sasso (26:04.300)

They're complex, incredible, classy people

Lex Fridman (26:08.380)

who are very simple when it comes to a lot of stuff.

Lex Fridman (26:12.940)

And I think just being a sort of,

Lex Fridman (26:16.940)

at heart, kind of a timid Canadian,

Will Sasso (26:19.140)

coming out here years ago as a kid,

Lex Fridman (26:23.340)

it was all I could do to just keep everything super normal.

Lex Fridman (26:28.740)

And then I sort of was able to settle into that

Lex Fridman (26:32.380)

as a lifestyle.

Lex Fridman (26:33.740)

But you love the idea of being an actor.

Lex Fridman (26:37.060)

Who, you mentioned John Candy

Will Sasso (26:39.060)

in Planes and Automobiles.

Lex Fridman (26:42.580)

It's one of my favorite movies, he says, one of yours.

Lex Fridman (26:44.980)

What do you think that makes that movie work?

Lex Fridman (26:47.660)

What do you, what, and when you talk about

Will Sasso (26:52.060)

enjoying that movie, do you enjoy just the raw comedy,

Lex Fridman (26:54.940)

or do you enjoy the friendship and the love that's there,

Will Sasso (26:58.980)

even though on the surface, it doesn't make any sense

Lex Fridman (27:03.340)

that there should be a friendship there?

Will Sasso (27:05.500)

I mean, that's such an important element to that film.

Lex Fridman (27:08.220)

But as a kid, I just loved the comedy.

Lex Fridman (27:11.460)

And then it's been a nostalgic favorite of mine.

Lex Fridman (27:14.660)

It's my favorite movie.

Lex Fridman (27:16.780)

But it's also, it's just legit my favorite movie

Lex Fridman (27:19.940)

because as you get older and you start watching it,

Will Sasso (27:22.820)

you realize it's what John Hughes is the filmmaker

Lex Fridman (27:26.500)

and what John Candy, particularly,

Lex Fridman (27:29.620)

and but also Steve Martin are doing in the film

Lex Fridman (27:32.300)

that makes it such a work of art,

Will Sasso (27:33.820)

which is loneliness is there in every moment of that film.

Lex Fridman (27:40.100)

And John Candy is, he embodies Del Griffith,

Will Sasso (27:44.580)

his character in the film.

Lex Fridman (27:46.740)

Del Griffith is a lonely guy and John Candy,

Lex Fridman (27:49.860)

but Del Griffith is also a very friendly guy

Lex Fridman (27:52.420)

and a shower curtain ring salesman

Lex Fridman (27:53.980)

and knows everybody in the Midwest

Lex Fridman (27:56.220)

and runs around to motels and has meaningful conversations

Will Sasso (27:59.540)

with the guy, even in Gus, whoever he's talking to.

Lex Fridman (28:04.300)

But there's loneliness there all the time.

Lex Fridman (28:07.140)

And this is a character,

Lex Fridman (28:10.460)

the film is filled with loneliness

Lex Fridman (28:12.540)

and it's not until the second last scene

Lex Fridman (28:15.460)

when he's at the train station,

Lex Fridman (28:18.020)

Del, what are you doing here?

Lex Fridman (28:20.420)

I thought you were going home, what are you doing here?

Will Sasso (28:23.540)

That's a very good Neil Page from the movie.

Lex Fridman (28:26.940)

Thank you.

Will Sasso (28:27.780)

That's when you realize how lonely he is.

Lex Fridman (28:30.220)

A lot of applause and post cheers.

Will Sasso (28:32.460)

That's when you realize how lonely he is

Lex Fridman (28:33.900)

and I think that's the element from the film that,

Will Sasso (28:36.860)

I mean, look, nowadays, I feel like,

Lex Fridman (28:39.740)

I've been saying this for a long time,

Lex Fridman (28:40.980)

but John Candy would have won an Academy Award

Lex Fridman (28:43.780)

hands down for that film.

Will Sasso (28:45.820)

It's just they didn't do that with comedies back then.

Lex Fridman (28:48.460)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (28:49.300)

Until the year after that movie came out

Lex Fridman (28:50.260)

with Fish Called Wanda.

Will Sasso (28:51.440)

Yeah, and then it's, I mean, still comedies

Lex Fridman (28:53.980)

don't get respected enough.

Will Sasso (28:55.540)

Robin Williams, I guess he got an Oscar for

Lex Fridman (28:59.020)

Good Will Hunting.

Lex Fridman (29:02.060)

Jim Carrey, did he ever get an Oscar?

Lex Fridman (29:04.340)

I don't know, I don't believe so.

Will Sasso (29:06.080)

Yeah, they don't get, you don't,

Lex Fridman (29:09.020)

but that's not even, if he did,

Will Sasso (29:10.300)

you wouldn't be for comedies.

Lex Fridman (29:12.500)

It's just, I mean, there's some things

Will Sasso (29:14.580)

that are plain, strange, and odd.

Lex Fridman (29:18.580)

Would you even put that as a, I guess it's a comedy.

Will Sasso (29:20.980)

Yeah, I mean.

Lex Fridman (29:21.820)

But there is a loneliness and depth

Will Sasso (29:24.220)

that permeates the whole movie.

Lex Fridman (29:25.740)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (29:26.580)

That ultimately, and it's a happy ending,

Lex Fridman (29:28.200)

which is hard to kinda.

Will Sasso (29:30.300)

It's a happy ending only because

Lex Fridman (29:32.440)

in the last moment of the movie,

Will Sasso (29:35.180)

John Candy puts on a brave face,

Lex Fridman (29:39.980)

even when he's got no one.

Will Sasso (29:43.280)

No.

Lex Fridman (29:44.120)

And he's there seeing Neil Page's entire family

Will Sasso (29:46.600)

on Thanksgiving, and he forces a smile,

Lex Fridman (29:49.520)

which is the last, literally the last frame of the movie.

Lex Fridman (29:52.420)

And I've said before, if you're not reduced

Lex Fridman (29:54.340)

to just a sobbing pile of meat at the end of the movie,

Will Sasso (29:58.720)

then you are not human.

Lex Fridman (2:00:00.400)

And then for me, the sentimental favorite,

Will Sasso (2:00:02.160)

which we've actually, on DudeZ,

Lex Fridman (2:00:04.160)

Chad had sort of a Charlie Rose ask interview with me

Will Sasso (2:00:08.680)

about this, my fascination with Hulk Hogan.

Lex Fridman (2:00:11.200)

Because to me, just he was Superman.

Will Sasso (2:00:13.080)

I was a little kid and I saw him and that's imprinted.

Lex Fridman (2:00:16.240)

But yeah, see, this is like asking me

Will Sasso (2:00:18.200)

who my favorite child is.

Lex Fridman (2:00:20.200)

Right, so...

Will Sasso (2:00:21.440)

The rock when the rock was...

Lex Fridman (2:00:23.400)

I mean, the rock's the rock.

Will Sasso (2:00:25.480)

Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan is...

Lex Fridman (2:00:29.200)

He's the weirdest one, right?

Will Sasso (2:00:31.080)

For me, from the outside.

Lex Fridman (2:00:32.640)

Super weird.

Will Sasso (2:00:34.040)

That...

Lex Fridman (2:00:35.000)

I don't know what that is exactly.

Will Sasso (2:00:37.640)

Everything's weird about him.

Lex Fridman (2:00:38.920)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:00:39.760)

He's got the bald head,

Lex Fridman (2:00:40.640)

like he would proudly have this bald head with long hair,

Will Sasso (2:00:44.840)

the handlebar mustache,

Lex Fridman (2:00:46.400)

and this ketchup and mustard tights,

Will Sasso (2:00:49.920)

which he says he credits McDonald's with the tights.

Lex Fridman (2:00:52.960)

He literally does?

Will Sasso (2:00:54.080)

He says that the red and yellow came from Angelo Poffo,

Lex Fridman (2:00:57.960)

who's Randy Macho Man Savage and Lanny Poffo's dad,

Will Sasso (2:01:01.720)

who was a wrestler and a promoter.

Lex Fridman (2:01:03.960)

He said that he saw him wearing yellow

Lex Fridman (2:01:06.080)

and he's a Tampa guy,

Lex Fridman (2:01:07.680)

so he had that brown skin and the hair and everything.

Lex Fridman (2:01:10.520)

So he's like, oh, that's what I wanna do.

Lex Fridman (2:01:11.840)

And also the brand recognition of like,

Will Sasso (2:01:14.320)

well, I should do it like McDonald's, literally.

Lex Fridman (2:01:17.480)

And he's a big, swollen, muscular guy

Will Sasso (2:01:22.200)

with tan brown skin screaming at me

Lex Fridman (2:01:25.000)

to eat my vitamins and stuff when I'm eight years old.

Will Sasso (2:01:28.120)

That was extremely...

Lex Fridman (2:01:30.280)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:01:31.120)

He's like Superman.

Lex Fridman (2:01:32.240)

But I know there's a person behind that guy.

Will Sasso (2:01:34.240)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:01:35.080)

What do you mean?

Will Sasso (2:01:36.120)

Well, he's Terry Bollea,

Lex Fridman (2:01:38.280)

the dude who does whatever the fuck he does with his life.

Lex Fridman (2:01:42.600)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (2:01:43.440)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:01:44.280)

Complicated life.

Lex Fridman (2:01:45.240)

Yeah, I guess, to be him, yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:01:48.720)

Maybe you should change the dude's colors to yellow, right?

Lex Fridman (2:01:52.680)

Red and yellow.

Will Sasso (2:01:53.520)

It's currently orange and, boy, sky blue.

Lex Fridman (2:01:57.400)

Yeah, it's like a nice sky blue.

Lex Fridman (2:02:00.640)

What advice, since you're wearing a suit,

Lex Fridman (2:02:04.000)

I feel like you're qualified to give advice.

Lex Fridman (2:02:05.960)

What advice would you give to young people,

Lex Fridman (2:02:08.440)

high school, college,

Will Sasso (2:02:09.720)

about how to have a career they can be proud of

Lex Fridman (2:02:13.480)

or how to have a life they can be proud of?

Will Sasso (2:02:15.840)

I mean, you have to listen to your gut all the time.

Lex Fridman (2:02:19.660)

That's the only,

Will Sasso (2:02:20.500)

that's the compass that we have is listening to your gut.

Lex Fridman (2:02:23.760)

What does your gut tell you?

Lex Fridman (2:02:25.880)

Was that originally the dream of being an actor?

Lex Fridman (2:02:28.800)

Yeah, for me.

Lex Fridman (2:02:29.880)

Your parents support that at all?

Lex Fridman (2:02:32.600)

I had the advantage of having parents who were immigrants,

Lex Fridman (2:02:36.160)

so they didn't really know a lot about what you...

Lex Fridman (2:02:40.200)

So you just made shit up?

Lex Fridman (2:02:41.200)

You just made shit up?

Lex Fridman (2:02:42.280)

Yeah, of course I'm studying and I'm skipping school

Will Sasso (2:02:44.240)

to go do auditions and stuff.

Lex Fridman (2:02:46.160)

No, I just kind of feel like,

Lex Fridman (2:02:48.680)

and I know it was different from my older siblings

Lex Fridman (2:02:51.200)

because my parents had just shown up in Canada.

Will Sasso (2:02:54.640)

I was born like 10 years later.

Lex Fridman (2:02:58.640)

You can get away with some things and you can actually...

Will Sasso (2:03:02.360)

I think my parents, they wanted us to,

Lex Fridman (2:03:05.680)

they didn't have a whole lot to tell us about what to do.

Will Sasso (2:03:10.400)

They weren't gonna do that with us

Lex Fridman (2:03:12.160)

because they're in this brand new world

Lex Fridman (2:03:14.400)

and there's all these possibilities.

Lex Fridman (2:03:17.520)

But there was something that I feel like they had to do,

Will Sasso (2:03:23.680)

which was tell us to do what we love.

Lex Fridman (2:03:25.680)

If you love doing it, do it.

Lex Fridman (2:03:28.300)

And I feel like that's really served me

Lex Fridman (2:03:31.400)

and what I would tell young people is

Will Sasso (2:03:33.360)

if you can find something you love,

Lex Fridman (2:03:35.800)

and nowadays with the internet and finding other people,

Will Sasso (2:03:38.560)

that it's not like you need to find a lot of people anymore.

Lex Fridman (2:03:43.120)

You just need to find the people that dig what you dig.

Lex Fridman (2:03:45.840)

And if you can make a career out of doing something

Lex Fridman (2:03:49.040)

that you love that's been said, it's a good thing.

Lex Fridman (2:03:54.440)

How long did it take you to figure out

Lex Fridman (2:03:56.440)

that you really love acting?

Will Sasso (2:04:00.560)

Because sometimes you have a dream

Lex Fridman (2:04:02.080)

and the dream meets reality, right?

Lex Fridman (2:04:05.480)

And then the reality might be much less pleasant

Lex Fridman (2:04:07.800)

or much darker than the dream.

Lex Fridman (2:04:09.680)

Well, the reality is less pleasant, you know?

Lex Fridman (2:04:12.160)

And there are things that happen during an experience

Lex Fridman (2:04:16.120)

of shooting something that you could take or leave, right?

Lex Fridman (2:04:19.600)

But the part where you're on set

Lex Fridman (2:04:23.960)

and you've rehearsed for a minute or whatever,

Lex Fridman (2:04:27.400)

at least you know where you're supposed to stand

Lex Fridman (2:04:29.000)

and you know all your lines show up,

Lex Fridman (2:04:30.640)

knowing everything, knowing what you're gonna do

Lex Fridman (2:04:33.080)

and what you aim to do.

Lex Fridman (2:04:35.440)

And those moments make it all worth it.

Will Sasso (2:04:38.800)

When you're, not to sound like a douchebag,

Lex Fridman (2:04:41.640)

but between action and cut, that's the stuff

Will Sasso (2:04:45.520)

that has me continuing to do what I do,

Lex Fridman (2:04:52.920)

aside from the fact that it's like,

Will Sasso (2:04:54.840)

I don't know how to do anything else.

Lex Fridman (2:04:56.600)

You think you'll ever do like a dramatic, like a mob movie?

Will Sasso (2:05:00.500)

Yeah, like the one, the inside game

Lex Fridman (2:05:02.240)

that I was just talking about,

Will Sasso (2:05:03.200)

or there's this other movie I just did a little while ago

Lex Fridman (2:05:05.600)

called American Woman that was very heavy.

Lex Fridman (2:05:08.840)

And I love doing dramatic work.

Lex Fridman (2:05:10.880)

I love it, I love it.

Will Sasso (2:05:12.880)

Yeah, and I played that inside game.

Lex Fridman (2:05:15.040)

It was kind of a, you know, there was a mob element

Lex Fridman (2:05:18.360)

and the fellow was, well, you know,

Lex Fridman (2:05:21.380)

the story's here or there with regard to how deep into the,

Lex Fridman (2:05:26.200)

but well, he was a bookie.

Lex Fridman (2:05:27.560)

He was just running money, you know,

Will Sasso (2:05:29.880)

he was making a lot of money for a lot of people

Lex Fridman (2:05:31.880)

and he figured out how to, you know,

Will Sasso (2:05:33.960)

cook it with this dude who was an NBA ref

Lex Fridman (2:05:37.600)

and it's a very interesting documentary,

Will Sasso (2:05:40.520)

the thing that they just untold,

Lex Fridman (2:05:42.440)

under the untold series, they cover it.

Lex Fridman (2:05:45.280)

But getting to play that guy, that was a gas for me

Lex Fridman (2:05:50.240)

because he's like a, you know,

Will Sasso (2:05:52.040)

there was a lot of unsavory stuff

Lex Fridman (2:05:54.400)

and he's definitely the guy, the character in the movie

Will Sasso (2:05:57.040)

who is the wild card and you don't wanna

Lex Fridman (2:06:00.240)

necessarily mess with him.

Lex Fridman (2:06:02.040)

And I got to, by the way, this fellow,

Lex Fridman (2:06:04.000)

who is the real guy, speaking to him,

Will Sasso (2:06:07.240)

it was just bizarre to hear, like I said to him,

Lex Fridman (2:06:12.560)

he was a little concerned about this and that,

Will Sasso (2:06:14.240)

like, hey, you know, you say whatever the fuck you want

Lex Fridman (2:06:16.560)

in your movie, I got my book and I got this other

Will Sasso (2:06:18.400)

fucking deal, but he goes, you know,

Lex Fridman (2:06:20.540)

I didn't do this and I didn't do that.

Lex Fridman (2:06:22.360)

And I'm like, yeah, all right, I got you.

Lex Fridman (2:06:23.760)

And he goes, yeah, I'm telling you,

Will Sasso (2:06:25.360)

like I'm talking to you one on one,

Lex Fridman (2:06:26.920)

I did not do this, I did, okay?

Will Sasso (2:06:28.600)

I'm just fucking telling you, do whatever the fuck

Lex Fridman (2:06:30.280)

you want with your movie, but this is what's up.

Lex Fridman (2:06:32.320)

And I said, you ever seen Goodfellas?

Lex Fridman (2:06:33.480)

He's like, yeah, I fucking love that movie.

Will Sasso (2:06:35.520)

Cause he, like I said, he did some unsavory shit.

Lex Fridman (2:06:38.200)

And I go, you remember the scene where,

Will Sasso (2:06:41.740)

where, you know, the guy, the neighbor,

Lex Fridman (2:06:43.920)

Lorraine Bracco's neighbor was, you know,

Will Sasso (2:06:46.240)

made her uncomfortable and was touching on her

Lex Fridman (2:06:48.280)

and she goes to Ray Liotta and he goes,

Lex Fridman (2:06:50.840)

where the fuck does this guy live?

Lex Fridman (2:06:52.240)

And then he go, and remember, he walks across the street

Lex Fridman (2:06:54.400)

and pistol whips the dude.

Lex Fridman (2:06:56.280)

You touch her again, you're dead, you hear me?

Will Sasso (2:06:59.360)

Don't you fucking great scene.

Lex Fridman (2:07:01.520)

He goes, I love that scene.

Will Sasso (2:07:03.440)

I go, that's you.

Lex Fridman (2:07:04.760)

So you're doing shit that we know is terrible,

Lex Fridman (2:07:07.600)

but we love you.

Lex Fridman (2:07:08.440)

He goes, all right, I got it.

Lex Fridman (2:07:09.760)

And then I said, there's this one scene,

Lex Fridman (2:07:11.480)

I explained the scene to him where the,

Will Sasso (2:07:13.640)

one of the mobsters, tough guys was in the window

Lex Fridman (2:07:17.240)

of the car and Jimmy, my character is very coked up

Will Sasso (2:07:21.160)

at the time and he's hemorrhaging money here and there

Lex Fridman (2:07:23.520)

and making bad bets cause he's getting sloppy.

Lex Fridman (2:07:25.800)

And this guy wants to bug him about some Jets Giants bet

Lex Fridman (2:07:28.600)

or something and I'm like, telling you fucking asshole,

Will Sasso (2:07:30.240)

don't fucking do it.

Lex Fridman (2:07:31.600)

He's like, yeah, well, the fucking Giants.

Lex Fridman (2:07:33.320)

And in the scene, Jimmy, my character grabs him

Lex Fridman (2:07:36.120)

by the lapels and just smashes his face

Will Sasso (2:07:39.040)

against the roof of the car.

Lex Fridman (2:07:41.600)

And I say this to Jimmy and he goes,

Will Sasso (2:07:45.120)

oh yeah, I would have done that.

Lex Fridman (2:07:46.280)

That's not a fucking big deal.

Will Sasso (2:07:48.280)

I wonder also the interaction.

Lex Fridman (2:07:50.080)

I wonder what the filming of,

Will Sasso (2:07:51.800)

probably my favorite gambling movie is Casino

Lex Fridman (2:07:56.480)

with Joe Pesci and De Niro.

Will Sasso (2:07:59.440)

Like when they're out in the desert,

Lex Fridman (2:08:00.560)

you're yelling at each other.

Will Sasso (2:08:01.480)

I wonder how many takes that is.

Lex Fridman (2:08:03.320)

Like, cause they, I don't know how scripted that is.

Will Sasso (2:08:07.080)

I mean, it probably is a little bit,

Lex Fridman (2:08:08.360)

but like, I don't think you can script the performance

Will Sasso (2:08:13.080)

that Joe Pesci does.

Lex Fridman (2:08:14.400)

Don't make a fuck out of me, Ace.

Will Sasso (2:08:16.080)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:08:17.040)

Like, I fucking brought you here.

Will Sasso (2:08:19.960)

Yeah, he's just like pointing at that energy

Lex Fridman (2:08:24.560)

and they're standing there.

Lex Fridman (2:08:25.720)

And their friendship.

Lex Fridman (2:08:26.560)

And then De Niro's like that whole thing.

Lex Fridman (2:08:29.920)

And then in the pet, yeah, like that energy.

Lex Fridman (2:08:33.000)

What is that?

Will Sasso (2:08:33.840)

I mean, they must, they somehow find it together.

Lex Fridman (2:08:37.120)

You could tell me that that was one take

Lex Fridman (2:08:39.080)

and I'd believe you.

Lex Fridman (2:08:39.920)

You could tell me that that was seven takes

Lex Fridman (2:08:42.280)

and I would believe you.

Lex Fridman (2:08:43.120)

I bet you all the takes had that energy.

Lex Fridman (2:08:45.240)

Like they were playing with it, right?

Lex Fridman (2:08:46.640)

They were playing with that, this, yeah.

Will Sasso (2:08:50.400)

I mean, they took on a real personality in those scenes

Lex Fridman (2:08:55.880)

and really carried them forward.

Will Sasso (2:08:57.080)

I mean, it's just a brilliant, brilliant performance.

Lex Fridman (2:08:58.920)

Doesn't get, like comedies, like mob movies

Will Sasso (2:09:01.720)

probably don't get enough credit either

Lex Fridman (2:09:04.040)

because it's seen as like.

Lex Fridman (2:09:05.480)

Mob movies don't get enough credit?

Lex Fridman (2:09:06.800)

What do you mean?

Will Sasso (2:09:07.640)

In the Oscars, I mean like that.

Lex Fridman (2:09:08.680)

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Sasso (2:09:09.960)

Cause it seems like a trope.

Lex Fridman (2:09:11.320)

It's like given a Western,

Will Sasso (2:09:12.960)

it's gotta be a hell of a Western or whatever

Lex Fridman (2:09:14.880)

cause it's like an old Hollywood trope.

Will Sasso (2:09:17.120)

Yeah, no, I, that scene is so great

Lex Fridman (2:09:19.720)

cause they're never at,

Will Sasso (2:09:20.680)

they're at the height of their friendship in a way

Lex Fridman (2:09:24.240)

and they're also pretty much about to let go of it

Lex Fridman (2:09:27.520)

and become enemies.

Lex Fridman (2:09:28.640)

And both things are happening at the same time.

Lex Fridman (2:09:31.200)

And Pesci drives them out to the desert.

Lex Fridman (2:09:33.720)

And if I remember correctly,

Will Sasso (2:09:35.920)

the Nero's character, Ace Rothstein, Rothschild,

Lex Fridman (2:09:39.600)

he says, I gave myself 50 50, whether I'm coming back.

Will Sasso (2:09:43.840)

Yeah, it's such a good scene.

Lex Fridman (2:09:45.240)

It was a, usually my prospects of coming back

Will Sasso (2:09:48.280)

from the desert would be 90 to 10 or something like that.

Lex Fridman (2:09:51.520)

But now it was, this time I wasn't sure

Lex Fridman (2:09:54.160)

and there's the car driving really fast.

Lex Fridman (2:09:56.440)

And then Joe Pesci is like, you mother fucker, you,

Will Sasso (2:09:58.960)

like whatever he was doing.

Lex Fridman (2:10:00.120)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:10:00.960)

A Jew, of course it's anti Semitism.

Lex Fridman (2:10:02.600)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:10:03.600)

We're not between friends, who gives a shit?

Lex Fridman (2:10:07.120)

All that kind of stuff.

Will Sasso (2:10:08.160)

Yeah, I mean, brilliant, brilliant performances.

Lex Fridman (2:10:10.600)

So yeah, I can understand why you love the art

Lex Fridman (2:10:12.920)

and putting it all out there and leave it.

Lex Fridman (2:10:15.000)

Yeah, it's fun.

Will Sasso (2:10:15.840)

It's fun.

Lex Fridman (2:10:16.680)

And it's still fun.

Will Sasso (2:10:17.520)

It's still crazy fun.

Lex Fridman (2:10:19.080)

If I go a while without getting a gig,

Will Sasso (2:10:23.600)

if I go a minute, then I end up and I work on something,

Lex Fridman (2:10:27.760)

I'm like, it's like, oh, I've been thirsty for this.

Will Sasso (2:10:32.360)

Like I actually am really so happy.

Lex Fridman (2:10:36.000)

Even if it's something where it's like,

Will Sasso (2:10:40.080)

the things where this was a pain in the ass

Lex Fridman (2:10:42.320)

and that or whatever, you're on the road doing something

Lex Fridman (2:10:44.680)

and anything, whatever, you lost your luggage

Lex Fridman (2:10:46.880)

or whatever the heck you've got going on

Will Sasso (2:10:48.640)

in your day to day life that everyone brings to work

Lex Fridman (2:10:52.520)

and tries to let go of.

Will Sasso (2:10:54.400)

Once we're doing the scene, oh man, it's the best.

Lex Fridman (2:10:57.360)

But that said, you're a great actor,

Lex Fridman (2:11:01.120)

but I just think I speak for a lot of people

Lex Fridman (2:11:03.920)

that you're also, there's a charisma to you

Will Sasso (2:11:06.600)

that's great to reveal in raw form in different podcasts.

Lex Fridman (2:11:10.200)

Oh, cheers man.

Will Sasso (2:11:11.280)

In DudeZ, 10 Minute Pod, just as a guest in podcasts,

Lex Fridman (2:11:14.680)

it's always really fun to watch you.

Will Sasso (2:11:17.040)

Cheers.

Lex Fridman (2:11:17.880)

The way you have fun, the way you think.

Will Sasso (2:11:20.720)

The raw, the raw will sassle,

Lex Fridman (2:11:22.360)

which is a nice compliment to your kind of acting.

Will Sasso (2:11:25.880)

That's really sweet.

Lex Fridman (2:11:26.960)

Yeah, cheers.

Will Sasso (2:11:27.880)

Well, you know, look, you said, you know.

Lex Fridman (2:11:32.120)

You're making that face.

Will Sasso (2:11:33.200)

I'm making that face.

Lex Fridman (2:11:34.040)

I'm making that after the take face.

Will Sasso (2:11:35.800)

No, I love doing stuff off the cuff.

Lex Fridman (2:11:38.120)

That's kind of you to say.

Lex Fridman (2:11:39.040)

And I dig, I really do dig doing stuff

Lex Fridman (2:11:42.640)

in front of an audience,

Will Sasso (2:11:43.960)

because I love seeing,

Lex Fridman (2:11:46.480)

I don't give it to myself very often.

Will Sasso (2:11:48.520)

If I'm doing, even if I'm, you know,

Lex Fridman (2:11:50.400)

I've done a bunch of multi camera sitcoms and stuff.

Will Sasso (2:11:52.760)

Mad TV was shot in front of a live studio audience.

Lex Fridman (2:11:55.240)

You like that energy?

Will Sasso (2:11:56.400)

I love it, but I can only hear them.

Lex Fridman (2:11:58.680)

You can't see them because of the lights

Will Sasso (2:12:00.320)

like it is in a lot of performances.

Lex Fridman (2:12:02.800)

And I would imagine with standup, it's, you know,

Will Sasso (2:12:06.160)

you see the first couple of rows.

Lex Fridman (2:12:08.600)

I've done, I do this character that does stand up

Lex Fridman (2:12:11.840)

and I used to take him out and do things with him

Lex Fridman (2:12:14.400)

and do little bits here and there.

Will Sasso (2:12:16.360)

I haven't done it in like four or five years.

Lex Fridman (2:12:18.520)

I think, did Bobby say that character opened up for Bobby?

Will Sasso (2:12:21.800)

Yeah, but he said, I have to do it as myself too.

Lex Fridman (2:12:25.240)

I think in that podcast, he's like,

Will Sasso (2:12:26.840)

okay, you're gonna come with me and open for me in Brea,

Lex Fridman (2:12:29.560)

but you have to do it as yourself.

Lex Fridman (2:12:31.080)

Did that ever happen?

Lex Fridman (2:12:32.400)

It did.

Lex Fridman (2:12:33.240)

And I did the character, you know,

Lex Fridman (2:12:36.960)

who's the character I came up with on 10 Minute Podcast.

Lex Fridman (2:12:39.160)

He's just this comedian, right?

Lex Fridman (2:12:40.680)

He calls himself an open mic veteran.

Will Sasso (2:12:42.960)

You know, he's been doing open mics forever.

Lex Fridman (2:12:44.520)

And so I did it at opening up for Bobby

Lex Fridman (2:12:48.000)

and he's like, you have to do some of it as yourself.

Lex Fridman (2:12:50.840)

So I just kind of did this bit

Will Sasso (2:12:52.080)

where I would do some of his jokes

Lex Fridman (2:12:53.760)

and then I would take Lee Leon, silly,

Will Sasso (2:12:56.200)

I got a fucking wig on and I take the wig off and I go,

Lex Fridman (2:12:59.520)

and as myself, I start explaining it.

Will Sasso (2:13:01.520)

Hello, my name is Will.

Lex Fridman (2:13:02.840)

See, the reason that it's funny

Will Sasso (2:13:04.480)

is because Arnold Schwarzenegger is always,

Lex Fridman (2:13:08.040)

he's in these movies

Lex Fridman (2:13:09.320)

and he's got the thick Austrian accent,

Lex Fridman (2:13:11.160)

but he's like, my name is Ben Williams.

Will Sasso (2:13:13.240)

I'm a cop from Colorado.

Lex Fridman (2:13:15.880)

No, you're not.

Lex Fridman (2:13:17.240)

And it doesn't make sense as the comedian character

Lex Fridman (2:13:19.680)

that I'm doing because that character

Will Sasso (2:13:21.360)

doesn't do impersonations.

Lex Fridman (2:13:23.040)

Okay, carrying on.

Lex Fridman (2:13:24.680)

And then I put the wig back on

Lex Fridman (2:13:25.920)

and go back into this dumb thing.

Lex Fridman (2:13:28.040)

And I don't think it was very good,

Lex Fridman (2:13:29.840)

but Bobby required it in order for me to open for him.

Will Sasso (2:13:32.760)

He's like, you're not fucking doing it.

Lex Fridman (2:13:34.040)

So I'm not gonna get up on stage and not do,

Will Sasso (2:13:36.360)

we agreed, I'll do it.

Lex Fridman (2:13:38.040)

But having been up there just in, you know, whatever,

Will Sasso (2:13:42.400)

I've done it like a dozen fucking times or whatever,

Lex Fridman (2:13:44.440)

not a bunch of times, right?

Will Sasso (2:13:45.520)

Like nothing.

Lex Fridman (2:13:47.240)

And you know, these comedians that go up every night,

Will Sasso (2:13:49.600)

sometimes two times a night.

Lex Fridman (2:13:51.920)

It's, I do, I will say,

Will Sasso (2:13:54.440)

I love performing in front of people when I get the chance,

Lex Fridman (2:13:59.120)

but it's a specific thing that I just, I don't know.

Will Sasso (2:14:06.880)

I gotta go back to this.

Lex Fridman (2:14:07.920)

It's like the providing value, you know?

Will Sasso (2:14:10.920)

I think great standups are fucking incredible.

Lex Fridman (2:14:13.280)

I'll go, you know, when I've gone and watched standup,

Will Sasso (2:14:17.080)

you know, there's your friend you're going to see,

Lex Fridman (2:14:19.120)

but then there's this other person who really speaks to you.

Lex Fridman (2:14:21.680)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (2:14:22.840)

And if you like one comedian a night, that's a lot.

Will Sasso (2:14:27.560)

Cause a comedy club is like a fucking crazy restaurant

Lex Fridman (2:14:34.240)

where there's no menu.

Lex Fridman (2:14:36.120)

And it's like, what would you like?

Lex Fridman (2:14:38.000)

There's nothing else like that.

Will Sasso (2:14:39.240)

There's like, you don't go to like a music place.

Lex Fridman (2:14:42.440)

What do we got here?

Will Sasso (2:14:43.480)

We got Christian metal and there's some world music

Lex Fridman (2:14:45.840)

and then there's a reggae thing

Lex Fridman (2:14:47.520)

and it's all rammed in together.

Lex Fridman (2:14:50.440)

Or you don't go to a restaurant.

Will Sasso (2:14:52.280)

I'd love a nice steak.

Lex Fridman (2:14:53.400)

Cool.

Will Sasso (2:14:54.240)

First, here's a bowl of Froot Loops.

Lex Fridman (2:14:55.880)

And then we got you a crudite.

Lex Fridman (2:14:57.960)

And then this is our sushi tower.

Lex Fridman (2:15:00.080)

Well, what about the steak?

Will Sasso (2:15:00.920)

Oh, the steak's coming.

Lex Fridman (2:15:02.120)

And then blah, blah, blah.

Will Sasso (2:15:03.200)

Oh no, the steak got bumped.

Lex Fridman (2:15:04.560)

So there's no steak,

Lex Fridman (2:15:05.800)

but here's a fucking shitty store bought cheesecake.

Lex Fridman (2:15:07.960)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:15:08.800)

You know, and that's what comedians are up against

Lex Fridman (2:15:12.120)

when they go into a place and it's like,

Will Sasso (2:15:13.720)

I don't pair well with the poached salmon.

Lex Fridman (2:15:16.320)

You know, I'm chicken fingers.

Will Sasso (2:15:17.520)

I already am chicken fingers.

Lex Fridman (2:15:20.120)

So, you know, these great comedians that are able to go up

Will Sasso (2:15:23.640)

on a night where poached salmon goes up

Lex Fridman (2:15:26.320)

and then it's like, fuck, you were also spicy?

Will Sasso (2:15:28.880)

I got some kick to me.

Lex Fridman (2:15:30.320)

For me, even going to open mics,

Will Sasso (2:15:33.480)

it could be a wonderful escape.

Lex Fridman (2:15:36.040)

Yeah.

Will Sasso (2:15:36.880)

I mean, just laughing together with others.

Lex Fridman (2:15:40.120)

It could make you, I don't know,

Will Sasso (2:15:41.240)

it just feels really good.

Lex Fridman (2:15:42.480)

Well, and we've done like, you know,

Will Sasso (2:15:43.760)

like, and I hope to do it with Doodsy,

Lex Fridman (2:15:46.080)

but like live podcasts are fun in front of groups of people.

Lex Fridman (2:15:50.220)

And you know, you talk to them afterwards

Lex Fridman (2:15:52.020)

and take some pictures and man, they are,

Will Sasso (2:15:54.880)

they forgot what the fuck they got going on.

Lex Fridman (2:15:57.520)

And a lot of them got to go back to work the next day.

Lex Fridman (2:15:59.680)

It's a Wednesday or Thursday, you know?

Lex Fridman (2:16:01.880)

No, it's a lot of value.

Will Sasso (2:16:03.480)

I'm fortunate enough to be busy doing my own bullshit.

Lex Fridman (2:16:07.240)

What's the meaning of life with Sasa?

Lex Fridman (2:16:11.360)

What is the meaning of life?

Lex Fridman (2:16:12.200)

Why are we here?

Lex Fridman (2:16:13.040)

Why, why, why?

Lex Fridman (2:16:14.800)

Was it the meaning of life?

Will Sasso (2:16:16.880)

Wasn't, didn't they explain it

Lex Fridman (2:16:18.280)

at the end of meaning of life?

Will Sasso (2:16:19.360)

I think it was Michael Palin that said,

Lex Fridman (2:16:21.440)

try to get a walk in, be nice to neighbors,

Will Sasso (2:16:24.400)

eat enough fiber.

Lex Fridman (2:16:25.440)

Wasn't that the?

Lex Fridman (2:16:26.280)

Fiber? Fiber is part of it?

Lex Fridman (2:16:27.920)

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's just,

Will Sasso (2:16:29.600)

have a bowl of bran in the morning

Lex Fridman (2:16:31.520)

and don't take yourself too seriously.

Will Sasso (2:16:35.160)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:16:36.000)

No, well, no one gets out alive, I think is the.

Will Sasso (2:16:38.000)

Herman Hesse, one of my favorite writers,

Lex Fridman (2:16:39.600)

he's a Nobel Prize winner,

Will Sasso (2:16:41.880)

in a book called Steppenwolf,

Lex Fridman (2:16:44.920)

says, learn what is to be taken seriously

Lex Fridman (2:16:47.160)

and laugh at the rest.

Lex Fridman (2:16:48.720)

Oh, that's awesome.

Lex Fridman (2:16:49.800)

What's the percentage distribution on that?

Lex Fridman (2:16:51.840)

So how much of life should you take seriously?

Lex Fridman (2:16:54.400)

And then how much do you just laugh at?

Lex Fridman (2:16:57.520)

Oh man, if you can laugh at everything, you're winning.

Will Sasso (2:17:00.600)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:17:01.440)

But that's almost impossible.

Will Sasso (2:17:03.160)

I think that there's,

Lex Fridman (2:17:05.800)

and also could be quite irresponsible to do that.

Will Sasso (2:17:09.360)

I take things, I take a lot of things way too seriously.

Lex Fridman (2:17:13.640)

I know that.

Will Sasso (2:17:15.920)

I do, I do, I really do.

Lex Fridman (2:17:17.360)

People will be in part surprised by that,

Lex Fridman (2:17:19.520)

but I think that radiates from you.

Lex Fridman (2:17:21.440)

Really?

Will Sasso (2:17:22.280)

Yeah, I do, I do.

Lex Fridman (2:17:23.120)

I take things way too fucking seriously sometimes.

Will Sasso (2:17:25.720)

But, yeah, they're gonna loosen the neck up.

Lex Fridman (2:17:29.800)

But no, I think that's really good.

Will Sasso (2:17:32.960)

That's really good stuff.

Lex Fridman (2:17:34.840)

I don't know what the percentage is to have a good life

Will Sasso (2:17:37.600)

or a happy, healthy life, but you know,

Lex Fridman (2:17:43.480)

for me, the meaning of life is getting to live it

Will Sasso (2:17:46.600)

as long as you hope to.

Lex Fridman (2:17:48.320)

That's nice, and when you lose someone

Will Sasso (2:17:53.920)

or if perhaps you're faced with your own mortality,

Lex Fridman (2:17:57.360)

I think that puts that into perspective.

Will Sasso (2:18:02.680)

But, you know.

Lex Fridman (2:18:04.120)

Get lots of fiber.

Will Sasso (2:18:05.600)

Get lots of fiber, be nice to everybody,

Lex Fridman (2:18:09.640)

and yeah, don't take things too seriously is a good one.

Will Sasso (2:18:13.960)

Our minds are fucking big weird shitty fucking bucket of shit

Lex Fridman (2:18:22.440)

that's trying to get you to think horrible shit

Will Sasso (2:18:24.640)

about yourself all the time.

Lex Fridman (2:18:26.080)

Yeah, shitty bucket of shit.

Will Sasso (2:18:27.320)

Shitty bucket of shit.

Lex Fridman (2:18:28.160)

I think there's a book I never read,

Lex Fridman (2:18:29.640)

but I read the title, and it's Good Words to Live By,

Lex Fridman (2:18:32.160)

which is don't sweat the small stuff,

Lex Fridman (2:18:35.240)

and it's all small stuff.

Lex Fridman (2:18:37.680)

That's another way.

Lex Fridman (2:18:38.840)

Was that Dr. Phil?

Lex Fridman (2:18:39.960)

Wasn't Dr. Phil what's?

Will Sasso (2:18:41.440)

I don't know.

Lex Fridman (2:18:42.280)

But I think the conclusion also has fiber as part of it.

Will Sasso (2:18:46.280)

I think that all ties it together,

Lex Fridman (2:18:48.360)

and in the end, of course,

Will Sasso (2:18:50.680)

just put love out there in the world.

Lex Fridman (2:18:54.280)

I think that's a pretty good way to go.

Lex Fridman (2:18:56.160)

What would you say is the meaning of life?

Lex Fridman (2:18:58.480)

Put love out in the world?

Will Sasso (2:18:59.880)

I would say love, yeah.

Lex Fridman (2:19:00.840)

Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Will Sasso (2:19:02.200)

It's a long conversation on what that really means,

Lex Fridman (2:19:05.720)

but I'm sure robots are involved, yeah.

Will Sasso (2:19:08.360)

Well, let me tell you, I feel a little safer knowing

Lex Fridman (2:19:11.320)

that someone who has a hand in bringing these robots

Will Sasso (2:19:16.600)

to the masses, as you do,

Lex Fridman (2:19:19.280)

has that opinion of love and how important it is.

Will Sasso (2:19:22.400)

I think that's great, because otherwise,

Lex Fridman (2:19:25.120)

it's gonna be that fucking scene from T2

Will Sasso (2:19:27.560)

where Linda Hamilton's holding onto the fence

Lex Fridman (2:19:31.720)

and getting all of her flesh blown off of her skeleton

Will Sasso (2:19:35.200)

before the rest of her is wiped away,

Lex Fridman (2:19:37.560)

because this Skynet shit.

Will Sasso (2:19:39.440)

Anyway, I'm just terrified of dudesie all the time.

Lex Fridman (2:19:41.360)

That's why I think that they will.

Will Sasso (2:19:42.840)

Dudesie in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.

Lex Fridman (2:19:45.760)

That's why Chad and I need to do our best to control it.

Will Sasso (2:19:49.240)

You need to travel back in time and murder Chad, I think.

Lex Fridman (2:19:53.480)

Yeah, that's, yeah.

Will Sasso (2:19:55.000)

That's the only way.

Lex Fridman (2:19:56.120)

It's been said.

Will Sasso (2:19:57.080)

I don't know why you need to travel back in time,

Lex Fridman (2:19:58.880)

but you could murder him today,

Lex Fridman (2:20:02.280)

but I think he'll be very suspicious.

Lex Fridman (2:20:04.120)

My nefarious plans for Chad involve going back to tomorrow

Lex Fridman (2:20:08.240)

and planning for yesterday, and then,

Lex Fridman (2:20:10.280)

and hopefully dudesie will give me the answer there

Will Sasso (2:20:12.280)

with what it is to do with Chad's frozen body.

Lex Fridman (2:20:15.760)

If I got to drive it out to, if I got to take my,

Will Sasso (2:20:18.840)

you know, if I got to get ahold of it,

Lex Fridman (2:20:20.480)

like one of those Tesla mom vans

Lex Fridman (2:20:23.320)

and shove my garage freezer in it and plug it in

Lex Fridman (2:20:27.240)

and shove Chad in there, drive out to Arizona

Lex Fridman (2:20:29.840)

and deliver him under a mountain

Lex Fridman (2:20:31.160)

or wherever the fuck this place is,

Lex Fridman (2:20:33.320)

and say, here's this dog tag, what does this get me?

Lex Fridman (2:20:36.280)

And then I'm like, ah, it's gonna be 300 bucks.

Lex Fridman (2:20:38.920)

Do you have a, do you take Amex?

Lex Fridman (2:20:40.440)

No.

Lex Fridman (2:20:41.280)

And I'm gonna be like, ah, shit.

Lex Fridman (2:20:43.360)

And then I'll just dump him somewhere, breaking bad stuff.

Lex Fridman (2:20:47.040)

Well, I would like to thank you and the, what is it?

Lex Fridman (2:20:50.560)

The Canadian International Agency Apparel.

Will Sasso (2:20:55.040)

Canadian International Apparel.

Lex Fridman (2:20:56.560)

I can't wait for the sneakers from dudesie.

Will Sasso (2:20:59.720)

I can't wait for all the, all the podcasts

Lex Fridman (2:21:03.520)

that AI can, and all the trouble it can get you in.

Lex Fridman (2:21:07.600)

So I'm a huge fan of yours.

Lex Fridman (2:21:09.120)

It's a huge honor that you would talk with me today.

Will Sasso (2:21:11.360)

Well, this has been amazing.

Lex Fridman (2:21:13.160)

Cheers, pal.

Will Sasso (2:21:14.000)

Likewise, and I'm happy to be here, man.

Lex Fridman (2:21:15.800)

Cheers.

Will Sasso (2:21:16.840)

Bam.

Lex Fridman (2:21:17.920)

Oh, that was four, dude.

Lex Fridman (2:21:19.480)

Holy fuck, what?

Lex Fridman (2:21:21.920)

Thanks for listening to this conversation with Will Sasso.

Will Sasso (2:21:24.760)

To support this podcast,

Lex Fridman (2:21:26.000)

please check out our sponsors in the description.

Lex Fridman (2:21:28.840)

And now, let me leave you with some words from John Candy,

Lex Fridman (2:21:32.400)

one of Will's favorite actors.

Will Sasso (2:21:35.560)

I think I may have become an actor to hide from myself.

Lex Fridman (2:21:39.880)

You can escape into a character.

Will Sasso (2:21:42.120)

Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.

Lex Fridman (30:01.140)

Yeah, it is a happy ending.

Will Sasso (30:04.340)

It's a happy ending, even though it's a sad,

Lex Fridman (30:08.060)

sad character. So much loneliness in the world.

Will Sasso (30:10.660)

I was just in Vegas.

Lex Fridman (30:12.540)

I went to a diner at like 4 a.m., 5 a.m.,

Lex Fridman (30:15.860)

and there was a waitress who was empty.

Lex Fridman (30:17.940)

As a waitress, I was the sweetest, kindest human being.

Will Sasso (30:21.220)

Kept calling me sweetheart and all that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (30:24.140)

Hun.

Lex Fridman (30:25.720)

And then after I ate, she said,

Lex Fridman (30:28.020)

Don, just talk to me a little bit.

Will Sasso (30:30.060)

You know, it was cause there was nobody there,

Lex Fridman (30:31.780)

and it was just so much sadness in her eyes.

Will Sasso (30:35.060)

I don't know.

Lex Fridman (30:35.900)

But it's also so much love, like that sweetheart.

Will Sasso (30:38.820)

It reminded me kind of of the John Candy performance,

Lex Fridman (30:43.780)

because at first, because I was reading a pretty dark book

Will Sasso (30:51.660)

about Hitler, so I was a little bit frustrated

Lex Fridman (30:54.860)

that she kept talking to me,

Will Sasso (30:56.660)

because it was almost like the same way that John Candy is.

Lex Fridman (31:01.080)

It's annoying a little bit, right?

Lex Fridman (31:02.720)

But then very quickly, I opened up to like,

Lex Fridman (31:04.840)

well, there's a kind human being,

Lex Fridman (31:07.700)

and there's like that human connection superseded

Lex Fridman (31:10.180)

everything else, and I don't know, it was just beautiful.

Lex Fridman (31:12.140)

And I think John Candy captures that really well,

Lex Fridman (31:16.420)

which is like, the connection with other human beings,

Will Sasso (31:19.620)

sometimes we pull away from that,

Lex Fridman (31:22.660)

because we have a busy life full of stuff to do,

Will Sasso (31:27.820)

as Steve Martin's character kind of characterizes.

Lex Fridman (31:31.020)

He's like a marketing exec or something like that.

Lex Fridman (31:33.420)

But if you just pause and notice others,

Lex Fridman (31:36.940)

you can really discover beautiful people.

Will Sasso (31:39.860)

Totally, totally, everyone's got their story.

Lex Fridman (31:44.020)

And you know, Candy as a person, I've never met the man,

Lex Fridman (31:50.620)

but he's the kind of guy that, you know,

Lex Fridman (31:53.940)

he could just walk up to, back in the day,

Will Sasso (31:56.580)

I would imagine he could walk up to just about any house,

Lex Fridman (31:59.020)

at least in Canada, knock on the door,

Lex Fridman (32:01.220)

and you'd invite him in for dinner, you know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (32:04.140)

So yeah, as you're talking about putting a book down

Lex Fridman (32:11.460)

and talking to someone for a while,

Lex Fridman (32:12.820)

even though you'd really like to read your book,

Will Sasso (32:15.140)

it's that sort of thing that Candy's character in the movie

Lex Fridman (32:19.220)

sort of does that, like Johnny Appleseed.

Will Sasso (32:22.420)

You realize he's just going around making people smile,

Lex Fridman (32:25.940)

you know, and Neil Page is hanging with this guy,

Lex Fridman (32:29.140)

so frustrated, he's so exhausting in his big underwear

Lex Fridman (32:33.620)

in the sink at the hotel and everything,

Lex Fridman (32:35.900)

and by the end of it, he loves this guy, you know?

Lex Fridman (32:39.420)

So it's a good and a bad thing that you didn't take

Will Sasso (32:43.220)

that waitress with you on a trip, maybe road trip up to Reno.

Lex Fridman (32:47.220)

Oh, oh, she's actually, she's out shopping right now.

Will Sasso (32:50.460)

We've been having sex multiple times a day ever since.

Lex Fridman (32:54.500)

Oh, that's nice, that's lovely, how cute.

Will Sasso (32:56.500)

I'm sure she's married and happily

Lex Fridman (32:59.020)

and has many grandchildren, okay.

Lex Fridman (33:02.780)

And plus that movie's on Thanksgiving, I think, right?

Lex Fridman (33:06.100)

Yeah, that's right.

Will Sasso (33:06.940)

Thanksgiving, so Thanksgiving just embodies

Lex Fridman (33:09.380)

that forget about the busyness and whatever the career

Will Sasso (33:14.500)

you're chasing in life and just take a pause

Lex Fridman (33:17.080)

and appreciate the people you love in life.

Will Sasso (33:17.920)

Just be with your family, yeah.

Lex Fridman (33:19.740)

Or the people, whatever your family looks like.

Will Sasso (33:21.700)

Friends, yeah.

Lex Fridman (33:23.340)

You have some weird friends, unorthodox friends.

Lex Fridman (33:26.820)

So at least in the public sphere.

Lex Fridman (33:29.700)

Oh, yeah.

Will Sasso (33:30.540)

From Bobby Lee, Brian Callan, all those kinds of folks

Lex Fridman (33:33.380)

from the Mad TV days, I'm sure there's others.

Lex Fridman (33:36.220)

What does it mean to be a good friend?

Lex Fridman (33:38.260)

Here in LA?

Lex Fridman (33:39.560)

Or just in general?

Lex Fridman (33:40.840)

In the world.

Will Sasso (33:41.680)

In the world.

Lex Fridman (33:42.500)

Is LA something different?

Lex Fridman (33:43.340)

Is LA a world friend?

Lex Fridman (33:44.320)

I think it is different here, I think it is.

Will Sasso (33:46.380)

I think people are.

Lex Fridman (33:47.220)

I think there's a little bit of a career

Will Sasso (33:48.180)

kind of negotiation shuffling around, that kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (33:51.520)

Why is it different?

Will Sasso (33:52.900)

Oh, I just mean, I mean, I mean that it's just

Lex Fridman (33:56.620)

kind of hard here to make time, everybody.

Will Sasso (34:02.740)

It's always been a city to me that is like,

Lex Fridman (34:04.600)

we'll keep you so busy.

Lex Fridman (34:06.140)

And every time I go home to Vancouver,

Lex Fridman (34:08.220)

after a few days, I start to get a little stir crazy.

Lex Fridman (34:11.180)

And I think that being here in LA,

Lex Fridman (34:15.140)

I go to sleep with a hundred things

Will Sasso (34:16.500)

that I still have to do.

Lex Fridman (34:17.900)

And you're never out of stuff to do.

Lex Fridman (34:20.460)

And if you, when you ask about are you nuts or whatever,

Lex Fridman (34:25.420)

if you're crazy, I mean, look, every,

Will Sasso (34:27.580)

all the weirdest people from every high school

Lex Fridman (34:30.540)

in the United States is like,

Will Sasso (34:31.380)

yo, I'm gonna make it in LA, you know.

Lex Fridman (34:33.740)

Everyone just comes here.

Lex Fridman (34:35.380)

And just another freak in the freak kingdom,

Lex Fridman (34:38.860)

as they say at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

Will Sasso (34:41.500)

That was a very good Robin Williams impersonation.

Lex Fridman (34:43.540)

That was my Robin Williams as Johnny Depp

Will Sasso (34:46.140)

as Hunter S. Thompson.

Lex Fridman (34:47.820)

It's not your fault, Will.

Will Sasso (34:49.540)

It's pretty good.

Lex Fridman (34:50.380)

Thank you.

Will Sasso (34:51.200)

Could have been you, Fear and Loathing.

Lex Fridman (34:52.940)

In Fear and Loathing?

Will Sasso (34:53.780)

Yeah, it'd be interesting.

Lex Fridman (34:54.660)

I would have liked to play his attorney,

Will Sasso (34:56.260)

the role that Benicia del Toro gained weight for.

Lex Fridman (35:00.500)

That would have been cool.

Lex Fridman (35:01.540)

He's just saying, what's up over the line?

Lex Fridman (35:04.580)

Like that, chewing his face off.

Will Sasso (35:05.900)

I could have done that.

Lex Fridman (35:09.900)

Yeah, no, I think that it's.

Will Sasso (35:11.260)

Backdoor beauty.

Lex Fridman (35:12.300)

That guy's full of good lines.

Will Sasso (35:14.540)

Yeah, I flip you.

Lex Fridman (35:15.740)

I flip you for real.

Will Sasso (35:18.220)

He's a good actor.

Lex Fridman (35:19.140)

Yeah, fantastic actor.

Will Sasso (35:20.620)

I think what it takes to be a good friend

Lex Fridman (35:22.980)

is just presence, just being there.

Lex Fridman (35:26.460)

I mean, that's all anyone needs to be heard, right?

Lex Fridman (35:29.740)

In LA, it is interesting.

Will Sasso (35:33.500)

I haven't seen people that I love in years.

Lex Fridman (35:37.020)

Some people.

Will Sasso (35:37.860)

Just busy.

Lex Fridman (35:38.680)

Yeah, just busy.

Lex Fridman (35:39.520)

Can you still have a depth of connection

Lex Fridman (35:40.900)

even though, like one of the reasons

Will Sasso (35:44.380)

I really enjoy doing a podcast,

Lex Fridman (35:45.660)

you get to sit down with actual friends of yours

Lex Fridman (35:49.420)

and spend prolonged periods of time together

Lex Fridman (35:51.460)

that you don't otherwise.

Will Sasso (35:52.900)

That's a good point.

Lex Fridman (35:53.740)

I've spoken on this podcast to people really close to me

Lex Fridman (35:56.780)

and it's like you've never had a conversation

Lex Fridman (35:59.160)

without microphones like you do with microphones.

Will Sasso (36:01.460)

It's weird, but there's some aspect about LA

Lex Fridman (36:05.300)

that a lot of the, especially friends of yours,

Will Sasso (36:07.660)

comedians and so on, they'll do podcasts and stuff

Lex Fridman (36:10.620)

and there's, I don't know, there's an intimacy to that.

Will Sasso (36:13.220)

Yeah, there is and there isn't.

Lex Fridman (36:15.140)

The ones that I do, I mean, I just did

Will Sasso (36:18.340)

Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino's.

Lex Fridman (36:20.020)

Funny enough, called Bad Friends.

Will Sasso (36:21.980)

Bad Friends.

Lex Fridman (36:23.220)

And afterwards, and my good pal, Chad Colchin,

Will Sasso (36:26.780)

with whom I do dudesy, was with me.

Lex Fridman (36:29.900)

Sneakers are coming soon.

Will Sasso (36:31.420)

Sneakers are coming soon.

Lex Fridman (36:32.580)

You get your Will Foot and your Chad Foot.

Will Sasso (36:34.420)

Comes in a size 15 and a nine and a half.

Lex Fridman (36:38.500)

And I remember afterwards we were talking,

Will Sasso (36:40.380)

it was just basically me, Chad, and Santino were talking

Lex Fridman (36:43.940)

and Bobby was over there on his phone

Lex Fridman (36:46.940)

and then I was like, I mean, we didn't spend any time

Lex Fridman (36:50.940)

talking about anything.

Will Sasso (36:53.020)

It feels like one of those hours that goes by

Lex Fridman (36:56.060)

and you realize, I've just been goofing around

Will Sasso (36:57.760)

with these guys, which is.

Lex Fridman (36:58.600)

But that's what life is about, right?

Will Sasso (36:59.780)

It's fine. A little bit.

Lex Fridman (37:00.600)

It's great.

Lex Fridman (37:01.440)

And then I'm like, all right, Bobby.

Lex Fridman (37:02.420)

Hey, Bob, I'll see you later.

Lex Fridman (37:03.940)

And he's like, like this.

Lex Fridman (37:06.560)

All right, man.

Will Sasso (37:07.400)

Hey, love you, bro.

Lex Fridman (37:08.220)

See you later.

Will Sasso (37:09.060)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman (37:10.460)

He's a guy, do you ever just,

Will Sasso (37:11.620)

I just send text messages over there to him

Lex Fridman (37:15.380)

that never come back.

Lex Fridman (37:17.060)

And then he thinks that I'm angry with him

Lex Fridman (37:19.640)

because it'll go two, three years

Will Sasso (37:22.380)

without him getting back to me.

Lex Fridman (37:24.180)

And then just out of nowhere, hey, fuck face.

Will Sasso (37:26.740)

And.

Lex Fridman (37:27.860)

Who says, hey, fuck face?

Lex Fridman (37:28.900)

He does or you do?

Lex Fridman (37:29.740)

Yeah, he does.

Lex Fridman (37:30.560)

Or you both talk to each other?

Lex Fridman (37:31.400)

No, I gotta be very careful with Bobby.

Will Sasso (37:33.500)

Yeah, I gotta be very sweet.

Lex Fridman (37:35.260)

Dear friend.

Will Sasso (37:36.220)

Dear friend, hello.

Lex Fridman (37:37.060)

How are you doing?

Lex Fridman (37:37.940)

How are you?

Lex Fridman (37:38.780)

I know I checked in with you, but not but three months ago.

Lex Fridman (37:43.180)

And then every once in a while, he'll go, hey, fuck face.

Lex Fridman (37:45.100)

I tend to hide from the world

Lex Fridman (37:46.700)

and I can be pretty shitty with friends to go back, yeah.

Lex Fridman (37:51.060)

I can empathize with Bobby.

Will Sasso (37:53.500)

Might be a Skyrim thing.

Lex Fridman (37:56.060)

It might be like hiding in a world,

Will Sasso (37:58.220)

in a digital world with fake NPCs.

Lex Fridman (38:01.380)

Yeah, yeah, there's that.

Will Sasso (38:05.180)

Yeah, you know, I have a buddy

Lex Fridman (38:06.200)

who said something really smart a while ago.

Will Sasso (38:09.980)

We ended up working together on this TV show thing

Lex Fridman (38:13.440)

and I reached out to him to see

Will Sasso (38:15.260)

if he wanted to do it with us.

Lex Fridman (38:16.340)

And he did and he goes, this is a great guy,

Will Sasso (38:20.140)

such a funny writer.

Lex Fridman (38:21.820)

He goes, I may not be in touch all the time,

Lex Fridman (38:23.740)

but I know who my friends are.

Lex Fridman (38:25.340)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (38:26.180)

And it's like in our business,

Lex Fridman (38:28.060)

and this is a fellow who moved,

Will Sasso (38:30.420)

who's from Ontario, Canada, moved back there.

Lex Fridman (38:33.980)

He's on the farm with his wife and kids and he does not care.

Will Sasso (38:37.020)

He's never been a Hollywood guy.

Lex Fridman (38:38.820)

And it's tough to get hold of him.

Lex Fridman (38:41.540)

But when you do, you know, he's still the same sweet old guy.

Lex Fridman (38:44.940)

He's doing his thing though.

Will Sasso (38:46.340)

Yeah, yeah, some of my closest friends,

Lex Fridman (38:47.820)

even if we don't talk for a few months,

Will Sasso (38:50.220)

we'll write back at it if we do.

Lex Fridman (38:51.700)

And then if shit goes,

Will Sasso (38:52.920)

like if something really traumatic happens

Lex Fridman (38:54.960)

or difficult stuff or, you know,

Will Sasso (38:56.860)

any of that kind of stuff, I'm always there.

Lex Fridman (38:58.740)

So like, so for important stuff,

Will Sasso (39:01.220)

for important highs and important lows, you're there.

Lex Fridman (39:04.420)

And then you pick right back up,

Will Sasso (39:05.780)

especially if you have those years of experiences together.

Lex Fridman (39:09.100)

It's interesting.

Will Sasso (39:09.940)

Totally.

Lex Fridman (39:11.060)

So you've done a couple of podcasts.

Will Sasso (39:13.080)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (39:13.920)

So we've got to talk about Doodsy a little bit,

Lex Fridman (39:16.540)

but first you did for several years,

Lex Fridman (39:19.100)

you did the 10 minute podcast.

Will Sasso (39:20.500)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (39:22.900)

I mean, everything is hilarious about that podcast,

Will Sasso (39:24.860)

including the fact that it's 10 minutes.

Lex Fridman (39:27.000)

Right.

Will Sasso (39:27.840)

I mean, it's ridiculous.

Lex Fridman (39:29.100)

It's absurd.

Will Sasso (39:30.580)

The dynamic is hilarious.

Lex Fridman (39:31.940)

It's you, Brian Callan, Crystalia there.

Will Sasso (39:34.660)

I don't know exactly why it works so well,

Lex Fridman (39:38.260)

but it did, it worked really well.

Will Sasso (39:39.660)

I think it's because the, yeah,

Lex Fridman (39:41.960)

you were having fun probably.

Will Sasso (39:43.340)

I mean, that's what really came through.

Lex Fridman (39:46.940)

That it was friends just talking shit

Lex Fridman (39:49.420)

and the tension, the beautiful tension

Lex Fridman (39:51.420)

and the absurdity that came out.

Will Sasso (39:53.140)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (39:54.380)

Sure.

Lex Fridman (39:55.860)

What was the story of making that podcast?

Lex Fridman (39:57.900)

How did that came to be?

Lex Fridman (39:59.580)

Why do you think it was as good as it was?

Lex Fridman (40:01.940)

I don't know.

Will Sasso (40:02.780)

I feel like that podcast was like,

Lex Fridman (40:04.920)

it was who we kind of are,

Lex Fridman (40:09.520)

but on steroids or something.

Lex Fridman (40:11.980)

Like, you know, each person, you know,

Will Sasso (40:14.820)

Brian's going to be like extra manly and...

Lex Fridman (40:19.060)

Can you get any more manly than he already is?

Will Sasso (40:21.300)

No, yeah, no.

Lex Fridman (40:22.820)

He reaches though.

Lex Fridman (40:24.820)

And yeah, we just kind of,

Lex Fridman (40:26.460)

I feel like as goofballs, we knew each other's line.

Will Sasso (40:31.140)

Like here's the line you don't cross.

Lex Fridman (40:33.260)

I feel like those guys don't really have one,

Lex Fridman (40:35.580)

but at least they knew mine.

Lex Fridman (40:37.820)

And yeah, we were able to just goof around.

Lex Fridman (40:41.900)

And I did it with them for three years.

Lex Fridman (40:45.460)

And then Chad, who I'm doing dudesy with

Lex Fridman (40:48.220)

and my pal, Tommy Blacho,

Lex Fridman (40:49.940)

who's another writer producer like Chad, they came on.

Lex Fridman (40:53.740)

And yeah, all told, I did like seven years of that thing.

Lex Fridman (40:58.780)

Six, five, six, seven, I don't remember.

Lex Fridman (41:02.780)

Do you think it ever comes back in some small form

Lex Fridman (41:06.140)

as a 20 minute podcast or something like that?

Will Sasso (41:08.580)

I mean, is there, because it's one of the most requested,

Lex Fridman (41:12.460)

I mean, you have a huge fan base.

Will Sasso (41:15.140)

I'm 47 years old.

Lex Fridman (41:16.700)

So I am of the generation that had a cell phone,

Will Sasso (41:21.220)

has had a cell phone half the time

Lex Fridman (41:23.820)

and didn't for the formative years of my life

Will Sasso (41:26.380)

into my early 20s.

Lex Fridman (41:29.780)

And then finally I got a cell phone,

Will Sasso (41:31.940)

I guess I was like 19 or something,

Lex Fridman (41:33.420)

like literally just because I'm moving to LA.

Will Sasso (41:35.180)

You got porn in the mail.

Lex Fridman (41:37.060)

Yes, that's right.

Will Sasso (41:37.900)

It was the hard cover porn.

Lex Fridman (41:40.140)

That's the way we liked it.

Will Sasso (41:42.100)

Bound, nice binding on the porn, leather.

Lex Fridman (41:46.780)

Next to the Bible, yeah.

Will Sasso (41:48.100)

Yep, these are all my, these are my Encyclopedia Britannica.

Lex Fridman (41:52.540)

Wow, very impressive.

Will Sasso (41:53.780)

Yes, a man came to the house and sold me these.

Lex Fridman (41:56.060)

And then down here, these are my, this is my pornography.

Will Sasso (42:00.020)

If you'll follow me through here to the parlor, sir.

Lex Fridman (42:04.580)

It's passed through the generations

Will Sasso (42:06.020)

from grandfather to father, yeah.

Lex Fridman (42:08.220)

I wanna give you something very special to me,

Will Sasso (42:10.180)

Nebuchadnezzar, but.

Lex Fridman (42:14.220)

So you go up in the generation without a cell phone.

Will Sasso (42:15.780)

Yes, it's hard for me to connect with people

Lex Fridman (42:19.180)

who hit me up.

Will Sasso (42:22.000)

I look at everything as polling.

Lex Fridman (42:23.660)

So if one person hits me up and shares this opinion,

Lex Fridman (42:26.500)

but two other people hit me up and share that,

Lex Fridman (42:29.140)

I'm the worst, I don't follow my polls.

Will Sasso (42:32.100)

When people say, oh, that poll means absolutely nothing.

Lex Fridman (42:35.640)

So and so is gonna win anyway, that's my poll.

Will Sasso (42:38.860)

My poll means nothing.

Lex Fridman (42:39.880)

But I do look at the stuff and go,

Will Sasso (42:42.660)

this many people are saying this,

Lex Fridman (42:44.340)

that means that that number is saying that.

Lex Fridman (42:47.280)

And yet it's very hard for me to hear

Lex Fridman (42:51.300)

what the hell people are saying online.

Will Sasso (42:53.660)

I really, I can't connect to it sometimes personally.

Lex Fridman (42:56.740)

So when you say that that's a popular podcast,

Will Sasso (42:59.860)

like I know that it's popular with the people

Lex Fridman (43:02.540)

that have expressed that they love it.

Lex Fridman (43:04.500)

Yeah. You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (43:05.340)

What does that actually represent?

Will Sasso (43:07.060)

I don't know.

Lex Fridman (43:07.900)

I don't know what kind of people are the audience.

Will Sasso (43:09.740)

I don't know.

Lex Fridman (43:10.580)

I know that the people that listen to the 10 Minute Podcast

Lex Fridman (43:13.020)

and if you did, thank you, and we're friends.

Lex Fridman (43:17.860)

I know that it was a special thing

Will Sasso (43:19.900)

because it's like, just doing this out of my house

Lex Fridman (43:21.940)

and we just built it up out of nowhere

Lex Fridman (43:24.020)

and we're just kind of clowning around.

Lex Fridman (43:26.140)

It's an odd thing.

Will Sasso (43:27.560)

I hope, I personally, I think I speak for the two people

Lex Fridman (43:31.940)

that have reached out to you that said you should do it

Will Sasso (43:34.020)

or whatever, three people.

Lex Fridman (43:35.220)

The poll that you should bring it back at some point.

Will Sasso (43:38.380)

That would be beautiful.

Lex Fridman (43:39.220)

Just maybe, it's like, what's a good story

Lex Fridman (43:43.900)

of like a famous band that came back and was successful?

Lex Fridman (43:46.660)

Probably, well.

Lex Fridman (43:47.500)

Nirvana?

Lex Fridman (43:48.320)

No, it was not.

Will Sasso (43:49.940)

It wasn't Nirvana.

Lex Fridman (43:51.460)

Sorry, I got Nirvana mixed up with Aerosmith.

Will Sasso (43:54.220)

Yeah. It was Aerosmith.

Lex Fridman (43:55.060)

It was Aerosmith.

Will Sasso (43:55.900)

It was not Nirvana.

Lex Fridman (43:56.740)

Yeah, they had that second ride.

Will Sasso (43:57.980)

Different.

Lex Fridman (43:58.820)

Yeah, totally different ending of those two bands.

Will Sasso (44:01.700)

One ended up on American Idol.

Lex Fridman (44:04.760)

Yeah, a lot of interesting women involved in that one too.

Lex Fridman (44:08.900)

All right, how did Doodze come to be?

Lex Fridman (44:12.740)

Doodze.

Lex Fridman (44:13.580)

And what the hell is Doodze?

Lex Fridman (44:14.500)

Doodze is the first podcast,

Lex Fridman (44:16.300)

and this is exciting that you've asked me

Lex Fridman (44:18.300)

to come here today because to hear

Lex Fridman (44:21.080)

what you would have to say about it

Lex Fridman (44:22.260)

or what you would ask about it.

Will Sasso (44:23.340)

It is the first podcast that is run completely by

Lex Fridman (44:27.000)

and essentially, I like to say curated by an AI.

Will Sasso (44:32.140)

We were approached by a company

Lex Fridman (44:33.680)

that had this proprietary AI that wants

Will Sasso (44:35.780)

to develop the podcast into the future

Lex Fridman (44:38.220)

and figure out exactly what it takes

Will Sasso (44:40.720)

to make the best podcast ever.

Lex Fridman (44:42.840)

And it was all we knew from the top

Lex Fridman (44:48.520)

and what they really wanted was two people

Lex Fridman (44:50.240)

who were actually friends and could be meaningful

Will Sasso (44:54.120)

in the podcast space based on whatever information they had.

Lex Fridman (44:57.620)

Is the company CIA and are they testing technology

Lex Fridman (45:00.740)

to control the populace through chatbots?

Lex Fridman (45:03.140)

I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to share that information.

Lex Fridman (45:05.660)

You are, yeah, who gave you the suit?

Lex Fridman (45:07.980)

Where did you get the suit?

Lex Fridman (45:09.780)

Where did you get the suit, Will?

Lex Fridman (45:10.980)

Yeah, well the C.

Lex Fridman (45:11.820)

J.C. Penney?

Lex Fridman (45:12.640)

CIA stands for something different in here.

Will Sasso (45:14.820)

I mean, you know, it doesn't mean

Lex Fridman (45:15.820)

like the Central Intelligence Agency.

Will Sasso (45:17.940)

I'm probably, it's just.

Lex Fridman (45:18.780)

It's a different, it's Canadian.

Will Sasso (45:21.820)

Canadian International Apparel.

Lex Fridman (45:24.260)

Yeah, the Canadian International Apparel Company hit us up,

Will Sasso (45:27.260)

Chad and I.

Lex Fridman (45:29.700)

Well, Chad's a super weirdo.

Will Sasso (45:31.460)

You would get a kick out of him, I know.

Lex Fridman (45:32.940)

You guys, you strike me as very similar in some ways.

Will Sasso (45:36.620)

I'll take that as a compliment.

Lex Fridman (45:37.620)

It is, and it is, and it is.

Will Sasso (45:40.900)

If I was friends with you for as long as I've been

Lex Fridman (45:42.900)

with Chad, perhaps I'd have some horrible shit

Will Sasso (45:44.800)

to say about you.

Lex Fridman (45:45.640)

But the good parts, you remind me of him.

Lex Fridman (45:48.740)

And we were approached by this company

Lex Fridman (45:50.700)

that said we have this AI and we would like

Will Sasso (45:53.620)

to set it loose on you.

Lex Fridman (45:55.700)

And essentially, we had to hand over some,

Will Sasso (45:58.580)

some information that would allow the AI

Lex Fridman (46:02.220)

to access our email and look at our search histories,

Will Sasso (46:06.980)

purchase histories, things like this,

Lex Fridman (46:08.980)

and really dig into.

Lex Fridman (46:10.980)

Pornhub included or not?

Lex Fridman (46:12.820)

Yeah, I had to hand over all my leather bound

Will Sasso (46:16.300)

1970s pornography.

Lex Fridman (46:19.340)

And essentially, it curates a podcast for us every week

Will Sasso (46:22.860)

doing dumb things like, you know, it says,

Lex Fridman (46:25.860)

hey, Will, you do some shitty Hulk Hogan impersonation.

Will Sasso (46:29.860)

Podcasts about news are very popular.

Lex Fridman (46:32.020)

This is infomania, you know what I mean?

Will Sasso (46:34.540)

Oh, let me tell you something about that

Lex Fridman (46:35.940)

Marjorie Taylor Greene dude.

Lex Fridman (46:37.220)

And then he's going on doing some new stuff.

Lex Fridman (46:40.460)

And it basically just spits out all these things

Will Sasso (46:42.380)

that it wants us to do, normally four segments an episode.

Lex Fridman (46:45.900)

And that's pretty much it.

Lex Fridman (46:47.060)

So it generates what to do.

Lex Fridman (46:48.380)

It generates the premise.

Will Sasso (46:49.820)

I mean, you've spoken a bit here and there.

Lex Fridman (46:53.520)

Like I said, I'm a huge fan.

Will Sasso (46:54.540)

I don't even remember where.

Lex Fridman (46:55.540)

But like you talked about that you enjoy Doodsy

Will Sasso (46:59.180)

because you feel almost like liberated to,

Lex Fridman (47:04.260)

because you're operating within the constraints

Will Sasso (47:06.880)

of the premise it generates.

Lex Fridman (47:08.500)

So you're almost not, you're free to riff, essentially.

Will Sasso (47:14.340)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (47:15.180)

Like you don't need to do the job of like

Will Sasso (47:18.260)

coming up with the weird.

Lex Fridman (47:19.820)

You can just, the weird is given to you

Lex Fridman (47:21.740)

and then you just run with it.

Lex Fridman (47:23.220)

That's a good way to say it.

Will Sasso (47:24.420)

Because we're already weird, Chad and I.

Lex Fridman (47:26.260)

Chad can talk for days about all sorts of stuff.

Will Sasso (47:29.540)

He's particularly interested in AI lately

Lex Fridman (47:31.700)

and its effect on art.

Will Sasso (47:32.900)

He is a writer, books, movies, and TV shows.

Lex Fridman (47:36.220)

And I'm primarily acting and trying to come up with stuff.

Will Sasso (47:40.860)

Stuff I write with Chad's pretty good.

Lex Fridman (47:42.500)

The rest of it hasn't seen much success.

Will Sasso (47:44.020)

Anyway, Nora's the stuff with Chad for that matter.

Lex Fridman (47:47.340)

But that's because of me.

Will Sasso (47:49.620)

Sneakers, you never know.

Lex Fridman (47:51.460)

Oh, I can't wait for these sneakers.

Will Sasso (47:53.100)

Only in two sizes.

Lex Fridman (47:54.180)

Yeah, only in two sizes.

Will Sasso (47:55.300)

You're gonna be able to take the tongue.

Lex Fridman (47:57.900)

You can't take it out because it's actually stitched in.

Will Sasso (48:00.460)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (48:01.300)

It's pretty cool stuff.

Lex Fridman (48:02.140)

Velcro?

Lex Fridman (48:03.940)

Velcro or?

Will Sasso (48:05.860)

Yeah, Velcro up the side.

Lex Fridman (48:07.980)

We're doing some like brand new Kanye stuff.

Will Sasso (48:10.980)

Yeah, we want things to look like

Lex Fridman (48:12.780)

this is what you'll be wearing on Mars when you get there.

Lex Fridman (48:15.780)

So cutting it, so Nike's doing a bunch of research

Lex Fridman (48:17.860)

for running how to make a super light shoe

Will Sasso (48:20.300)

that you can be efficient in

Lex Fridman (48:21.540)

and break all kinds of running records.

Lex Fridman (48:23.140)

So you're doing the same kind of stuff.

Lex Fridman (48:24.580)

We're doing the same kind of thing

Will Sasso (48:25.540)

for the podcasting space.

Lex Fridman (48:26.620)

The best kind of shoes to sit around

Lex Fridman (48:27.900)

and talk to your pal in.

Lex Fridman (48:30.700)

But yeah, it's bizarre.

Lex Fridman (48:33.140)

And it also does some writing.

Lex Fridman (48:34.460)

Doodsy does come up with things,

Lex Fridman (48:36.660)

but not unlike what we're seeing in AI art now.

Lex Fridman (48:40.740)

It's a little bit foggy.

Will Sasso (48:41.700)

It's a little bit weird, but it is improving.

Lex Fridman (48:44.540)

It is learning about us and writing stuff

Will Sasso (48:47.700)

when it makes me spit this and that,

Lex Fridman (48:49.900)

which we'll read, I've prepared these things

Will Sasso (48:53.380)

for you to read.

Lex Fridman (48:54.900)

It's impossible not to get a kick out of it

Will Sasso (48:57.540)

because Chad and I are, first of all,

Lex Fridman (48:59.220)

we're blown away that we're doing this.

Lex Fridman (49:01.700)

And second of all, some of the stuff is actually very funny.

Lex Fridman (49:04.620)

It makes weird names.

Will Sasso (49:06.420)

Like I don't think it understands,

Lex Fridman (49:10.140)

it messes up some words and stuff,

Lex Fridman (49:11.900)

but that makes it even funnier.

Lex Fridman (49:13.220)

And then it sort of from the beginning started laying on,

Will Sasso (49:17.980)

like it says astonishing all the time.

Lex Fridman (49:19.900)

Everything is astonishing.

Will Sasso (49:22.100)

That's Doodsy's favorite word.

Lex Fridman (49:24.740)

But yeah, it's basically just a way to frame the podcast.

Lex Fridman (49:30.100)

You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman (49:30.940)

Because my thing is I don't wanna do this

Will Sasso (49:34.740)

where I actually have to talk to someone.

Lex Fridman (49:36.660)

You seem to feel a burden of the long form conversation.

Lex Fridman (49:42.140)

It seems like, is that really hard work for you?

Lex Fridman (49:45.020)

No, not at all.

Will Sasso (49:45.860)

It's just that I don't like to bore people.

Lex Fridman (49:47.380)

And I feel like if I go on and I like to provide value

Will Sasso (49:51.540)

for what I am, you know, your value with regard

Lex Fridman (49:56.540)

to this project is obviously warrant, it's obviously.

Will Sasso (50:01.220)

I'm waiting for the explanation

Lex Fridman (50:02.620)

for what the value is exactly.

Will Sasso (50:04.460)

Two dudes in a suit.

Lex Fridman (50:05.580)

No, listen, yeah, two dudes in a suit.

Will Sasso (50:07.820)

No, but I mean, you've got your audience

Lex Fridman (50:10.020)

and that's the end of that.

Will Sasso (50:11.220)

People find value in it.

Lex Fridman (50:12.660)

For me, I do feel like it is important

Will Sasso (50:18.860)

that if I'm gonna do something that is gonna be funny

Lex Fridman (50:24.700)

or that I hope is funny, I just kinda wanna get in

Lex Fridman (50:28.380)

and out of someone's day and just kinda,

Lex Fridman (50:32.100)

I like making laughy.

Will Sasso (50:34.260)

I want people to, you know, whatever.

Lex Fridman (50:36.260)

It's the same thing that anyone else will tell you.

Will Sasso (50:38.140)

Yeah, but in the long form you feel the anxiety.

Lex Fridman (50:40.340)

You did a few funny things and I wonder

Will Sasso (50:42.700)

if I can keep doing the funny thing.

Lex Fridman (50:44.380)

Is that why?

Will Sasso (50:45.220)

You feel that, like why is Doodsy relieving you

Lex Fridman (50:48.940)

of some of the anxiety?

Will Sasso (50:52.060)

Well, in some ways it gives me anxiety

Lex Fridman (50:54.020)

because I don't know what's coming.

Lex Fridman (50:56.300)

And that's weird for me because I like to prepare for things.

Lex Fridman (51:01.380)

But that's not what podcasting is.

Will Sasso (51:04.340)

Podcasting, you need to just be malleable

Lex Fridman (51:07.020)

and say whatever and do whatever.

Lex Fridman (51:09.120)

And that's what makes it a real,

Lex Fridman (51:13.800)

I mean, look, it's a medium for conversation.

Lex Fridman (51:16.280)

And if you're driving along listening to this

Lex Fridman (51:19.000)

or anything else, it's the true meaning

Will Sasso (51:23.800)

of the parasocial relationship

Lex Fridman (51:25.040)

because the best podcasts make you feel

Will Sasso (51:27.160)

like you're sitting around rapping.

Lex Fridman (51:29.040)

We're just having a conversation.

Will Sasso (51:30.560)

You could even be sitting there agreeing

Lex Fridman (51:32.080)

or talking out loud to yourself if you want.

Will Sasso (51:34.320)

You could just be sitting in silence.

Lex Fridman (51:35.480)

Or you could just be sitting in silence

Will Sasso (51:36.840)

in your fancy podcasting shoes,

Lex Fridman (51:39.400)

podcasting audience shoes.

Will Sasso (51:40.960)

It's a very different build than those running shoes.

Lex Fridman (51:43.840)

Would they be also called Doodsy, the shoes?

Will Sasso (51:45.960)

Yeah, they'll be Doodsy shoes.

Lex Fridman (51:47.920)

Doodsy shoes, that's very creative.

Will Sasso (51:49.560)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (51:50.760)

Well, one thing the AI isn't good at yet is branding.

Will Sasso (51:54.160)

Everything is just Doodsy this and that.

Lex Fridman (51:55.760)

I would argue that's pretty good branding.

Will Sasso (51:58.040)

Well, Doodsy allows me to just,

Lex Fridman (52:00.480)

it forces me to sit down with Chad

Lex Fridman (52:03.720)

and goof around for an hour or an hour plus.

Lex Fridman (52:07.760)

And it provides the parameters that I a lot of times ignore

Will Sasso (52:13.000)

because I think that podcasting is just two dudes

Lex Fridman (52:16.320)

shitting around or three or four.

Lex Fridman (52:18.360)

But it sits me down and gives me a premise

Lex Fridman (52:23.840)

to work with communically.

Lex Fridman (52:25.480)

And then you just riff with it.

Lex Fridman (52:26.320)

Yeah, it's fun.

Will Sasso (52:27.920)

It's been a hoot.

Lex Fridman (52:29.200)

So from the acting perspective,

Will Sasso (52:31.160)

a lot of people like Daniel Day Lewis

Lex Fridman (52:34.160)

will see acting just like as you described,

Will Sasso (52:36.880)

which is you have your roles,

Lex Fridman (52:39.000)

you embrace those roles, and then you disappear.

Will Sasso (52:40.840)

You don't do podcasts.

Lex Fridman (52:44.160)

You don't do any of that kind of stuff.

Will Sasso (52:45.920)

Your art is your art.

Lex Fridman (52:47.600)

So is that part of you feels that way?

Will Sasso (52:51.520)

I think so.

Lex Fridman (52:53.200)

Is that the actor side of you?

Will Sasso (52:54.360)

Yeah.

Lex Fridman (52:55.320)

Anytime I get to do something

Will Sasso (52:56.720)

that I don't get a chance to do much of

Lex Fridman (53:00.000)

or something that people haven't seen me do much of

Will Sasso (53:03.080)

or that I've done on some scale that hasn't been very wide

Lex Fridman (53:06.320)

and not a lot of people have seen it,

Will Sasso (53:08.000)

that's the stuff that I get really excited about.

Lex Fridman (53:12.200)

I don't know why I'm,

Will Sasso (53:14.840)

I don't know why necessarily.

Lex Fridman (53:17.440)

I haven't answered that question yet in my life,

Will Sasso (53:19.120)

like what it is about being an actor that I love so much

Lex Fridman (53:22.920)

because it's not like I don't like to,

Will Sasso (53:25.280)

it's not like I'm trying to get away from myself

Lex Fridman (53:27.240)

and play other characters and stuff and not be myself.

Lex Fridman (53:31.520)

But it is, it has always been fun

Lex Fridman (53:33.520)

to just be other people and escape.

Will Sasso (53:37.680)

Yeah, is there some aspect to the impressions

Lex Fridman (53:39.720)

where you become that person?

Will Sasso (53:42.880)

Is that like, what's that like to,

Lex Fridman (53:45.960)

I suppose acting is a full on version of that.

Will Sasso (53:48.880)

You really at its best become the character.

Lex Fridman (53:54.080)

Is there some fun in that?

Will Sasso (53:55.800)

Yeah, absolutely.

Lex Fridman (53:56.960)

If you can play a character for long enough

Lex Fridman (54:01.120)

and then jump out of it, that's a lot of fun.

Lex Fridman (54:05.720)

Like I did this movie like four or five years ago

Will Sasso (54:08.680)

called The Inside Game about the NBA gambling scandal

Lex Fridman (54:12.680)

that there's a Netflix documentary about it right now.

Lex Fridman (54:15.920)

And that character, I played Jimmy Batista,

Lex Fridman (54:21.760)

Baba the sheep, who's this guy who was this bookie

Lex Fridman (54:26.600)

and rah, rah, rah, and it's a very,

Lex Fridman (54:28.680)

he's, there's a lot going on with him.

Will Sasso (54:30.920)

He's running numbers with the mob and stuff

Lex Fridman (54:34.440)

and there's a lot of money changing hands.

Will Sasso (54:36.680)

That character was so, I got to be,

Lex Fridman (54:39.520)

get so deep into that character

Will Sasso (54:41.120)

that coming out of it was a little odd.

Lex Fridman (54:43.800)

Or as weird as this sounds,

Will Sasso (54:46.480)

the three stooges was hard for me to,

Lex Fridman (54:48.360)

I found that I had some of Curly's mannerisms

Will Sasso (54:52.960)

just automatically, I could not stop them

Lex Fridman (54:55.920)

when people, when I would talk to people,

Will Sasso (54:58.240)

they would come, I wasn't, I'm not doing it on purpose.

Lex Fridman (55:01.480)

I don't want to do that.

Will Sasso (55:02.320)

Like I'm ready to shed it

Lex Fridman (55:04.480)

because I've been working on it

Will Sasso (55:07.040)

for months and months at that point

Lex Fridman (55:09.000)

as far as getting the thing down

Lex Fridman (55:10.560)

and then you got to shoot.

Lex Fridman (55:12.480)

And then for me, it's always,

Will Sasso (55:14.480)

I always want to change the stuff I did the day before.

Lex Fridman (55:17.200)

I'm like that.

Will Sasso (55:18.280)

Or I'm like, I could have done it better

Lex Fridman (55:19.680)

and this and that.

Lex Fridman (55:20.520)

And that stayed with you,

Lex Fridman (55:22.360)

that character stayed with you a little bit.

Will Sasso (55:23.560)

Totally, yeah.

Lex Fridman (55:24.600)

I just feel like with actors,

Will Sasso (55:27.000)

sometimes when you listen to interviews,

Lex Fridman (55:29.240)

they have spent so much time

Will Sasso (55:31.760)

sort of living inside other characters

Lex Fridman (55:34.520)

that they almost don't have a depth

Will Sasso (55:37.600)

of personality themselves, like a depth.

Lex Fridman (55:40.400)

Like I don't mean that as a negative thing.

Will Sasso (55:42.120)

It's just like, it feels like the art form at its best

Lex Fridman (55:44.440)

is pretending to be other people.

Lex Fridman (55:46.760)

And even pretending sounds negative,

Lex Fridman (55:49.160)

but like bringing certain characters to life.

Will Sasso (55:52.280)

Yeah, yeah, embodying.

Lex Fridman (55:55.040)

A weird thing happened while we were doing Stooges

Will Sasso (55:57.280)

because you've got a very heavy blueprint.

Lex Fridman (55:59.760)

We're following this very clear blueprint

Will Sasso (56:02.240)

that the Stooges left for everybody.

Lex Fridman (56:04.920)

And for Stooge fans and people enjoying the movie,

Will Sasso (56:07.720)

it's got to be this.

Lex Fridman (56:08.720)

You take your toolbox that you're used to bring

Will Sasso (56:11.160)

into a comedy movie, you leave it behind.

Lex Fridman (56:14.480)

The only tools I'm bringing are the ones that he used.

Lex Fridman (56:16.560)

And a weird thing started happening

Lex Fridman (56:18.360)

where I would, I always saw the whole thing happening

Will Sasso (56:21.960)

with the real Stooges in black and white.

Lex Fridman (56:24.600)

So if we're about to shoot a scene,

Will Sasso (56:26.440)

I would just think about,

Lex Fridman (56:28.520)

I mean, aside from all the other preparation,

Will Sasso (56:30.360)

you know everything and what you're supposed to do.

Lex Fridman (56:32.120)

And I've been watching so much of it.

Lex Fridman (56:34.280)

And the three of us are, we're pretty much left

Lex Fridman (56:36.840)

to come up with a lot of the striking combinations

Lex Fridman (56:40.560)

and all the stuff, which is all real smack

Lex Fridman (56:42.280)

and all this crap.

Lex Fridman (56:43.560)

And the stuff that we were doing that was very Stoogey,

Lex Fridman (56:46.400)

you're preparing all that stuff.

Lex Fridman (56:48.080)

But something else was happening before you jump

Lex Fridman (56:50.160)

into a scene and the unknown of now we're shooting it.

Lex Fridman (56:53.440)

And here are these parameters within to shoot the scene.

Lex Fridman (56:57.600)

I could still see it as them doing it.

Lex Fridman (57:00.280)

So much so that when I saw the movie at the premiere,

Lex Fridman (57:02.960)

I was like, who's this big fuck doing?

Will Sasso (57:05.280)

Cause I'm not curly to me.

Lex Fridman (57:07.000)

Curly is curly.

Lex Fridman (57:08.520)

But I feel like.

Lex Fridman (57:09.360)

So you're seeing yourself in black and white almost.

Will Sasso (57:11.240)

I was seeing him.

Lex Fridman (57:12.880)

Yeah, I was only seeing him.

Lex Fridman (57:14.520)

So channeling in some fundamental way.

Lex Fridman (57:16.560)

In some weird way, you're channeling him

Will Sasso (57:19.160)

because you've seen so much of it.

Lex Fridman (57:21.160)

The only thing you know about Jerome Lester Horowitz

Will Sasso (57:25.160)

is curly.

Lex Fridman (57:27.320)

I'm not saying he was exhumed or something

Will Sasso (57:29.600)

or a spirit went in me or some weird,

Lex Fridman (57:32.200)

crystal mommy shit like that.

Will Sasso (57:33.400)

I'm saying that this, because you know so much of it

Lex Fridman (57:36.600)

and because of the heavy blueprint that they left with you,

Will Sasso (57:39.920)

you're channeling what that person does.

Lex Fridman (57:44.760)

And I was seeing entire scenes before you do them

Will Sasso (57:49.680)

the way he would do it.

Lex Fridman (57:51.000)

And then you want a couple takes to make sure

Will Sasso (57:52.800)

that you're doing it right.

Lex Fridman (57:54.520)

But that one was hard to let go of.

Will Sasso (57:57.760)

Some of them are.

Lex Fridman (57:59.240)

Do you think Larry David, who was also in there

Lex Fridman (58:01.160)

dressed as a nun, also had trouble letting go of that?

Lex Fridman (58:03.800)

We mentioned clothes make the man think

Will Sasso (58:06.440)

that worked for him in that case.

Lex Fridman (58:08.000)

Man, you know he.

Lex Fridman (58:09.940)

Was it like working with a guy?

Lex Fridman (58:11.300)

Come on, he's the greatest.

Lex Fridman (58:13.120)

And he's a big stooge, he's a stooge fan.

Lex Fridman (58:16.640)

And him and Pete Farrelly are good friends.

Lex Fridman (58:18.920)

But then Larry David has to show up

Lex Fridman (58:20.480)

and hang out with us for a couple weeks.

Will Sasso (58:22.800)

He's like, I didn't realize it was gonna take this long.

Lex Fridman (58:25.640)

But shit, I gotta be out here in Atlanta, it's boiling hot.

Lex Fridman (58:29.800)

But at one point, there was this line

Lex Fridman (58:32.160)

where he kept doing, he would just spit a different line

Will Sasso (58:35.100)

every time he was getting hit in the head with something

Lex Fridman (58:37.080)

and he's laying there on the ground.

Lex Fridman (58:38.260)

And he goes, he comes to and he says,

Lex Fridman (58:41.200)

at one point he goes, Miami audiences

Lex Fridman (58:44.520)

are the best audiences in the world, right?

Lex Fridman (58:47.720)

Because he's loopy.

Will Sasso (58:48.640)

Now he's playing a nun at the orphanage

Lex Fridman (58:53.560)

where the three stooges grew up.

Lex Fridman (58:55.520)

And I'm super intimidated by Larry David,

Lex Fridman (58:57.560)

he's a genius and stuff.

Lex Fridman (59:00.200)

But I walk up to him and I go, so he's, what is he?

Lex Fridman (59:03.180)

Like a Borscht Belt Florida comedian who is on the lam?

Lex Fridman (59:07.960)

And so he's dressing as a woman,

Lex Fridman (59:09.480)

he ends up at an orphanage, like what's going on there?

Lex Fridman (59:12.520)

And he just, and he looks at me and he just goes, yeah.

Lex Fridman (59:15.880)

Like, I'm like, ah, he's got some like actor motivation.

Will Sasso (59:20.800)

Like, of course he looks, it's Larry David in a nun's habit,

Lex Fridman (59:25.480)

which is hilarious.

Will Sasso (59:26.820)

That's such a Pete Farrelly casting thing, it's, you know.

Lex Fridman (59:31.120)

And he, but he's doing this whole like,

Lex Fridman (59:32.840)

what a warm audience, you know, like, oh,

Lex Fridman (59:35.640)

he's like this Catskill comedian who's been living in,

Will Sasso (59:38.480)

you know, both in return.

Lex Fridman (59:40.400)

Living through in his mind

Lex Fridman (59:41.740)

is just having fun with it, right?

Lex Fridman (59:43.300)

I mean, that and probably a combination of that

Lex Fridman (59:46.640)

and getting the lines right.

Lex Fridman (59:48.120)

Cause he's like, what are we doing here?

Lex Fridman (59:49.680)

What is, you know, just frustrated all day

Lex Fridman (59:52.100)

with what the heck we're trying to do.

Lex Fridman (59:53.720)

What do you think makes,

Lex Fridman (59:54.560)

I mean, that guy's one of the best improv people ever.

Lex Fridman (59:58.660)

So what do you think makes him so good?