Devon Larratt: Arm Wrestling
体育与武术音乐与艺术心理与人性政治与社会AI 与机器学习
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armdonwrestlingmatchguygoingtalkdoingsportgottrainingstrengthfightfightingbetterdennisawaypersonwholetable
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🎙️ 完整对话（2830 条）
Lex Fridman (00:00.120)
I get so passionate about it.
我对此充满热情。
Lex Fridman (00:01.840)
I get so angry, you know?
我很生气你知道吗？
Lex Fridman (00:04.080)
Because there's a saying like,
因为有句话说，
Lex Fridman (00:05.200)
oh, can you beat him in a hook?
哦，你能打败他吗？
Lex Fridman (00:06.560)
Can you beat, man?
你能打败吗，伙计？
Devon Larratt (00:07.720)
Win, win, that's it.
赢了赢了，就这样吧。
Lex Fridman (00:10.640)
Just win and don't talk to me about anything else.
只要赢了就行，别和我谈论任何事情。
Devon Larratt (00:13.460)
You believe the match is finished.
你相信比赛已经结束了。
Lex Fridman (00:16.540)
And I wonder if that gets in the head of the other person.
我想知道其他人是否会想到这一点。
Lex Fridman (00:19.600)
See this?
看到这个了吗？
Lex Fridman (00:20.420)
Yeah.
是的。
Devon Larratt (00:23.180)
Quit.
辞职。
Lex Fridman (00:26.240)
The following is a conversation with Devon Larratt,
以下是与 Devon Larratt 的对话，
Devon Larratt (00:29.380)
considered by many to be one of the greatest
被许多人认为是最伟大的之一
Lex Fridman (00:32.240)
arm wrestlers in history.
历史上的扳手腕。
Devon Larratt (00:34.800)
This is the Lex Friedman podcast.
这是莱克斯·弗里德曼的播客。
Lex Fridman (00:37.080)
To support it, please check out our sponsors
为了支持它，请查看我们的赞助商
Devon Larratt (00:39.220)
in the description.
在描述中。
Lex Fridman (00:40.360)
And now, dear friends, here's Devon Larratt.
现在，亲爱的朋友们，这是德文·拉勒特 (Devon Larratt)。
Devon Larratt (00:45.560)
You are considered to be one of the greatest
你被认为是最伟大的人之一
Lex Fridman (00:48.060)
arm wrestlers in history,
Devon Larratt (00:49.960)
plus are one of the most charismatic
Lex Fridman (00:52.480)
and fun people to watch in arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (00:54.880)
But let me first start with a ridiculous,
Lex Fridman (00:57.320)
the controversial opinion.
Devon Larratt (00:59.100)
I actually really enjoy Over the Top,
Lex Fridman (01:01.840)
the movie with Sylvester Stallone,
Devon Larratt (01:04.440)
where he's a trucker.
Lex Fridman (01:06.040)
It's like a father son movie.
Devon Larratt (01:08.480)
It's, you know, like a bunch of sports
Lex Fridman (01:10.560)
have the definitive movie.
Devon Larratt (01:12.240)
Boxing has Rocky, maybe folk style.
Lex Fridman (01:15.920)
Collegiate wrestling has Vision Quest.
Lex Fridman (01:19.960)
What else is there?
Lex Fridman (01:20.800)
Billiards has Color of Money.
Devon Larratt (01:22.520)
This is the sort of movie for arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (01:26.620)
So what did Over the Top get right?
Lex Fridman (01:28.760)
What did it get wrong about arm wrestling?
Lex Fridman (01:31.600)
That was actually based off of a real story.
Devon Larratt (01:34.200)
A lot of people don't know that.
Lex Fridman (01:35.600)
Yeah, the Over the Top movie,
Devon Larratt (01:37.920)
I mean, to a certain degree,
Lex Fridman (01:40.640)
that's actually real life.
Devon Larratt (01:41.880)
Like that tournament, Over the Top, was real.
Lex Fridman (01:44.240)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (01:45.080)
It was literally named Over the Top.
Lex Fridman (01:45.900)
Yes, yes.
Devon Larratt (01:46.740)
There was a trucker division,
Lex Fridman (01:48.480)
and the guy actually won a truck for real.
Devon Larratt (01:50.120)
His name's John Brzenk.
Lex Fridman (01:51.000)
You know who that is, right?
Lex Fridman (01:52.440)
So the actual Over the Top tournament,
Lex Fridman (01:54.080)
the trucker division, was won by John.
Lex Fridman (01:55.720)
Who is John Brzenk?
Lex Fridman (01:57.480)
He is, a lot of people talk about him as like a legend
Lex Fridman (02:01.080)
and one of, if not the greatest,
Lex Fridman (02:03.080)
arm wrestlers of all time.
Devon Larratt (02:04.680)
John Brzenk is every arm wrestler's father
Lex Fridman (02:11.320)
to a certain degree, all of us.
Devon Larratt (02:14.600)
The entire sport looks up to him.
Lex Fridman (02:19.880)
It's incredible what he's done.
Devon Larratt (02:21.640)
I mean, at 18, he won Over the Top.
Lex Fridman (02:24.840)
At 57, he just competed with me a couple months ago.
Devon Larratt (02:29.480)
Still at the world level.
Lex Fridman (02:31.120)
18, that's 40 years of being at the top of the sport.
Devon Larratt (02:35.720)
It's incredible.
Lex Fridman (02:37.080)
He's hailed as the greatest of all time
Devon Larratt (02:39.140)
in the sport of arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (02:41.080)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (02:41.920)
And he doesn't, he's beaten some monsters.
Lex Fridman (02:44.080)
Oh yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (02:45.280)
And he doesn't.
Lex Fridman (02:46.120)
I mean, when you talk about like the evolution of the sport,
Devon Larratt (02:51.120)
he's responsible for so much of it.
Lex Fridman (02:54.120)
Like when you talk about, like a lot of times
Devon Larratt (02:57.680)
when you go back like 20 years, 30 years,
Lex Fridman (03:00.840)
a lot of us looked at arm wrestling, I think it's,
Devon Larratt (03:03.720)
I mean, as something you could kind of do.
Lex Fridman (03:06.920)
And he's the first guy who's like,
Devon Larratt (03:08.320)
if you want to get better at arm wrestling,
Lex Fridman (03:09.560)
you got to arm wrestle.
Lex Fridman (03:10.880)
And it seems so simple, but you know,
Lex Fridman (03:14.880)
he answered so many questions that all of us had
Devon Larratt (03:17.920)
about techniques in the sport, back in a pre video internet.
Lex Fridman (03:25.880)
He's been everybody's target for like 40 years.
Lex Fridman (03:28.880)
So in terms of strength, there's a power in terms of skill.
Lex Fridman (03:31.520)
What did he teach the sport of arm wrestling?
Lex Fridman (03:33.320)
So if you look, how did the sport change
Lex Fridman (03:35.440)
from 80s, 90s to the aughts?
Devon Larratt (03:38.720)
You were at the top of the world for many years.
Lex Fridman (03:43.040)
Many argue you're still at the very top of the world.
Lex Fridman (03:45.720)
But like you were very dominant, both left and right hand
Lex Fridman (03:48.560)
in, I don't know, 2008 to 2013, something like that.
Lex Fridman (03:55.120)
So how did that sport evolve to today?
Lex Fridman (03:57.760)
So it's hard for me to comment, you know, prior to,
Devon Larratt (04:03.720)
you know, when I came to the sport was kind of mid nineties.
Lex Fridman (04:06.640)
Like I've been arm wrestling my whole life,
Lex Fridman (04:08.240)
but I wasn't really involved in the sport to a major degree
Lex Fridman (04:13.240)
until probably, you know, mid nineties.
Lex Fridman (04:16.160)
But I'll say that before the mid nineties,
Lex Fridman (04:20.360)
it was really hard to get good at arm wrestling.
Devon Larratt (04:23.280)
Very difficult.
Lex Fridman (04:25.680)
Everybody was doing it wrong, really.
Devon Larratt (04:28.040)
Like it was really rare to find people
Lex Fridman (04:30.600)
who were technically good arm wrestlers.
Devon Larratt (04:33.680)
It was very underground.
Lex Fridman (04:35.320)
You know, when I got into sport,
Devon Larratt (04:37.280)
it was a flyer that came in the mail.
Lex Fridman (04:39.680)
You had to know somebody who knew you.
Devon Larratt (04:41.640)
You had to know somebody who knew somebody
Lex Fridman (04:43.720)
who knew somebody, and then you go to a club
Lex Fridman (04:46.480)
and you can't do anything with these people.
Lex Fridman (04:49.000)
And they knew how to arm wrestle.
Devon Larratt (04:52.360)
They did, but real masters were rare.
Lex Fridman (04:56.080)
And you know, then internet helped everybody.
Devon Larratt (05:00.880)
Communication, the transfer of knowledge
Lex Fridman (05:04.480)
became so much faster.
Devon Larratt (05:06.720)
People became technically, you know, invested.
Lex Fridman (05:11.000)
People started to train, sharing ideas.
Devon Larratt (05:14.760)
By, I'd say, 2000 and,
Lex Fridman (05:20.560)
well, probably around the turn of the millennia,
Devon Larratt (05:23.080)
I'd say that professional leagues started to slowly pick up.
Lex Fridman (05:27.200)
More organized, bigger productions.
Devon Larratt (05:31.240)
Started to attract more athletes.
Lex Fridman (05:33.400)
More people took it seriously.
Devon Larratt (05:35.560)
By 2010, I'd say there was another jump.
Lex Fridman (05:39.320)
More serious leagues, a little bit more money.
Devon Larratt (05:43.960)
By 2015, more major media.
Lex Fridman (05:47.360)
Like, people were investing a lot of money.
Devon Larratt (05:49.520)
Like, you know, millionaires, billionaires type of people
Lex Fridman (05:53.240)
were organizing events, setting up leagues.
Lex Fridman (05:56.480)
And yeah, I mean, the past five years,
Lex Fridman (05:59.360)
it's just blown up.
Devon Larratt (06:01.040)
The techniques, I mean, if I was to go back
Lex Fridman (06:04.000)
to when I started, you know, what took me
Lex Fridman (06:08.400)
10 or 15 years to learn?
Lex Fridman (06:10.320)
I mean, new guys are showing up
Lex Fridman (06:11.760)
and they've got it down in like a year.
Lex Fridman (06:13.600)
Yeah. Yeah.
Devon Larratt (06:15.280)
Well, the thing about it, the development of the sport,
Lex Fridman (06:18.320)
is it's, like I was telling you off mic,
Devon Larratt (06:21.440)
it's a battle of one versus one.
Lex Fridman (06:27.680)
And then that can turn into battle of nations,
Devon Larratt (06:30.360)
which, you know, there is.
Lex Fridman (06:32.240)
There's Canada, there's the United States,
Devon Larratt (06:34.840)
there's all the Eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia,
Lex Fridman (06:39.840)
all of that.
Devon Larratt (06:40.880)
That's what makes some of the greatest sports
Lex Fridman (06:43.760)
in Olympics great, like weightlifting.
Devon Larratt (06:46.120)
It's a battle of nations, not just a battle of individuals.
Lex Fridman (06:48.920)
And it's almost like these two humans
Devon Larratt (06:50.800)
represent the two nations.
Lex Fridman (06:52.600)
And I see that very much,
Devon Larratt (06:53.960)
we'll talk about your matches coming up,
Lex Fridman (06:55.440)
but there is that battle between North America
Lex Fridman (06:59.720)
and that other part of the world.
Lex Fridman (07:01.480)
Yeah, yeah, North America is very prized.
Devon Larratt (07:05.120)
You know, the North American champion
Lex Fridman (07:07.200)
is always highly sought after
Devon Larratt (07:09.160)
because they're typically the most famous.
Lex Fridman (07:12.400)
Even still when, you know, quite arguably,
Devon Larratt (07:16.000)
there's always somebody in Eastern Europe
Lex Fridman (07:18.560)
who's just monstrous.
Devon Larratt (07:20.880)
It's typically the North American athlete
Lex Fridman (07:23.160)
who's more recognized.
Devon Larratt (07:24.760)
By the way. Oh, yeah.
Lex Fridman (07:26.200)
We'll have a cup here with some maple syrup.
Devon Larratt (07:28.360)
Cheers, Lex. Cheers.
Lex Fridman (07:29.600)
We should probably show,
Devon Larratt (07:32.920)
you just downed that whole thing.
Lex Fridman (07:34.560)
No, no, no, I'm gonna sip it.
Lex Fridman (07:36.320)
I'm gonna sip it, you know?
Lex Fridman (07:37.760)
But by all means.
Devon Larratt (07:41.280)
It's really good, right? That is delicious.
Lex Fridman (07:42.400)
Yeah. Yeah.
Devon Larratt (07:43.360)
That is. Canadian maple syrup.
Lex Fridman (07:45.720)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (07:46.560)
That's a perfect July day from Canada in a bottle, yeah.
Lex Fridman (07:52.240)
So you're on a total tangent.
Devon Larratt (07:56.680)
You are known for appreciating food
Lex Fridman (07:59.040)
in all kinds of ways,
Lex Fridman (07:59.960)
but one of the things you're known for is pancakes.
Lex Fridman (08:02.920)
That is, yeah, that's gone to a crazy place in the sport,
Lex Fridman (08:06.920)
but yeah, like.
Lex Fridman (08:08.200)
Where did that originate?
Devon Larratt (08:09.560)
So, where that originated.
Lex Fridman (08:12.760)
When it went from like your actual love for pancakes
Devon Larratt (08:15.360)
to the meme.
Lex Fridman (08:16.200)
Yeah, so I think what happened was.
Lex Fridman (08:22.080)
So I had a match with Michael Todd, big match.
Lex Fridman (08:26.520)
Michael, great champion.
Devon Larratt (08:30.160)
He's another guy who's, you know,
Lex Fridman (08:31.720)
he's never gonna get off the horse.
Devon Larratt (08:34.000)
You know, he's, Jesus.
Lex Fridman (08:36.320)
His elbow is a complete disaster.
Devon Larratt (08:40.600)
Probably one of the most loved and hated guys
Lex Fridman (08:42.920)
in the sport right now.
Lex Fridman (08:45.160)
Is it because of the King's move?
Lex Fridman (08:46.680)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (08:47.880)
Yeah, the King's move brings him a lot of hate.
Lex Fridman (08:50.560)
Not from me, not from a lot of people,
Lex Fridman (08:52.800)
but a lot of observers have a big problem
Lex Fridman (08:56.200)
with the King's move.
Lex Fridman (08:57.540)
What's wrong with being a little bit controversial?
Lex Fridman (09:00.000)
That's fun.
Devon Larratt (09:01.000)
You know, I get so passionate about it.
Lex Fridman (09:03.360)
I get so angry, you know?
Devon Larratt (09:05.560)
Because there's this saying like,
Lex Fridman (09:06.680)
oh, can you beat him in a hook?
Lex Fridman (09:08.080)
Can you beat, man?
Lex Fridman (09:09.240)
Win, win.
Devon Larratt (09:10.840)
That's all that matters.
Lex Fridman (09:12.160)
Just win and don't talk to me about anything else.
Devon Larratt (09:15.360)
If you can win with style, win with style,
Lex Fridman (09:18.380)
but don't talk to me about anything but winning.
Devon Larratt (09:21.920)
That's the priority.
Lex Fridman (09:23.200)
So you had this match with Michael Todd.
Devon Larratt (09:24.760)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (09:25.600)
So I was in a terrible place.
Devon Larratt (09:29.520)
I guess it was, I get so screwed up with the years.
Lex Fridman (09:31.460)
It's 2022 now, right?
Devon Larratt (09:33.320)
No, it's 2030.
Lex Fridman (09:34.360)
What are you talking about?
Devon Larratt (09:35.680)
That's right.
Lex Fridman (09:36.520)
I think it is actually 2030.
Devon Larratt (09:38.240)
We're way ahead of schedule.
Lex Fridman (09:39.720)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (09:40.560)
Oh, man.
Lex Fridman (09:41.380)
That's right.
Lex Fridman (09:42.220)
So when was this?
Lex Fridman (09:43.060)
This was like a decade ago or no?
Devon Larratt (09:43.880)
No, this is like a year and a bit ago.
Lex Fridman (09:47.120)
Oh, this is very recent.
Devon Larratt (09:48.200)
Very recent, yeah.
Lex Fridman (09:49.580)
So I got really sick.
Lex Fridman (09:52.080)
Is that the match?
Lex Fridman (09:52.920)
Yeah, this is the match, right?
Devon Larratt (09:54.760)
Awesome match.
Lex Fridman (09:57.000)
So this match is for the Legacy Hammer.
Lex Fridman (09:59.560)
So we invented this thing called the Legacy Hammer
Lex Fridman (10:02.160)
and Michael took it from me in, I think, 2018.
Lex Fridman (10:05.700)
And then COVID shut everything down
Lex Fridman (10:08.360)
and Michael went overseas to try and set up,
Devon Larratt (10:11.600)
because at that time, Michael was a North American champion.
Lex Fridman (10:15.100)
He beat me and he went to Dubai
Lex Fridman (10:18.640)
and he organized this great big match with LeVon.
Lex Fridman (10:21.560)
And the whole thing fell apart.
Devon Larratt (10:23.040)
Organizers, leagues, wouldn't let it happen,
Lex Fridman (10:25.800)
but there was still an ability
Devon Larratt (10:27.520)
to have a match of significance happen.
Lex Fridman (10:30.500)
So Michael's like, who do you want?
Lex Fridman (10:31.780)
And I'm like, let's give Devin a rematch.
Lex Fridman (10:33.620)
And I'm like, yeah, yes.
Lex Fridman (10:36.360)
And I was really sick at the time.
Lex Fridman (10:38.480)
I had DVT, I had pulmonary embolism.
Devon Larratt (10:41.960)
I was mentally in a terrible place
Lex Fridman (10:45.320)
and I got offered the match
Lex Fridman (10:47.000)
and I just totally turned my life around.
Lex Fridman (10:50.300)
And I committed really hard.
Lex Fridman (10:57.200)
What happened in this match, by the way?
Lex Fridman (10:59.880)
Oh, I just totally destroyed him.
Devon Larratt (11:03.140)
I just beat the piss out of him.
Lex Fridman (11:08.240)
Michael's a good friend of mine, but.
Devon Larratt (11:11.040)
Yeah, there's a lot of camaraderie
Lex Fridman (11:12.320)
when you guys talked afterwards, it's great.
Lex Fridman (11:14.500)
But we fight like brothers,
Lex Fridman (11:17.240)
so we let each other really fight hard against each other.
Lex Fridman (11:20.400)
But so I was, I knew, I mean,
Lex Fridman (11:23.240)
strength and mass, they go hand in hand.
Lex Fridman (11:26.360)
And I committed to just getting as big
Lex Fridman (11:29.800)
and as strong as I could.
Lex Fridman (11:30.800)
And literally, I was eating pancakes every day.
Lex Fridman (11:34.000)
Bacon, pancakes, every sloppy bit
Devon Larratt (11:37.200)
of garbage food I could eat.
Lex Fridman (11:38.760)
I was trying to eat healthy also,
Lex Fridman (11:40.440)
but if there was garbage food, I'd eat it.
Lex Fridman (11:42.000)
What do you mean, bacon and pancakes isn't healthy?
Lex Fridman (11:44.340)
What are you talking about?
Lex Fridman (11:45.180)
Exactly.
Lex Fridman (11:46.080)
But people should go watch, there's a video
Lex Fridman (11:48.680)
where you make the Canadian meal of bacon
Devon Larratt (11:54.160)
with some bacon cooking tips, water, that was interesting.
Lex Fridman (11:57.560)
And then obviously pancakes and maple syrup
Devon Larratt (12:01.400)
all over the whole thing.
Lex Fridman (12:02.240)
Yeah, you're making me very hungry.
Devon Larratt (12:05.120)
I've caused more diabetes than,
Lex Fridman (12:08.400)
probably gonna get in trouble karmically
Devon Larratt (12:10.640)
for making the world obese.
Lex Fridman (12:12.720)
You should probably write a book, The Pancake Diet.
Devon Larratt (12:15.840)
Yeah, I think I will do that one day.
Lex Fridman (12:18.800)
So you said mass and strength go hand in hand,
Devon Larratt (12:21.720)
just at a big level about arm wrestling,
Lex Fridman (12:24.280)
what's more important?
Devon Larratt (12:26.320)
Strength, power, endurance, skills, strategy,
Lex Fridman (12:30.560)
or mental toughness, how do these components
Lex Fridman (12:33.840)
all come into play in arm wrestling?
Lex Fridman (12:36.960)
They're all important.
Devon Larratt (12:38.360)
You can use everything and you can adjust your strategy
Lex Fridman (12:41.960)
based off of the tools that you have.
Devon Larratt (12:43.880)
I would say if I could pick ever just one thing
Lex Fridman (12:48.320)
to have more of, I would say that it would be strength.
Devon Larratt (12:53.480)
Gained while fighting.
Lex Fridman (12:56.280)
While actually arm wrestling, so not off the table.
Devon Larratt (12:59.120)
No, no, no, so you get stronger from arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (13:02.160)
How do you get stronger from arm wrestling?
Devon Larratt (13:03.920)
In jiu jitsu and grappling, you can get good
Lex Fridman (13:06.120)
by training with people much technically worse than you.
Lex Fridman (13:11.040)
So with white belts and blue belts,
Lex Fridman (13:12.920)
it's actually beneficial because you get to work stuff out.
Lex Fridman (13:16.680)
But I wouldn't say it develops that intensity
Lex Fridman (13:22.960)
and power required to go against people at your level.
Lex Fridman (13:27.920)
So how do you balance that?
Lex Fridman (13:30.040)
Is it okay to go against people
Lex Fridman (13:31.400)
that are much weaker than you?
Lex Fridman (13:33.160)
Or do you really have to go against people
Lex Fridman (13:36.400)
at the same level?
Lex Fridman (13:38.000)
I think that a blended strategy is probably the best.
Devon Larratt (13:44.640)
I'd say kind of a rule is whatever you do,
Lex Fridman (13:48.480)
you get better at, right?
Lex Fridman (13:49.840)
So you wanna be kind of as precise as possible.
Lex Fridman (13:54.160)
You don't wanna get hurt.
Lex Fridman (13:56.880)
And it's just about investment.
Lex Fridman (13:58.640)
And the answer's not always the same.
Devon Larratt (14:02.200)
Things are gonna change.
Lex Fridman (14:04.240)
I am currently a big believer in what I call
Lex Fridman (14:08.480)
tower building, right?
Lex Fridman (14:09.960)
So you have to do a lot of volume to build a great tower.
Devon Larratt (14:15.720)
You need to have a ton, a ton of volume.
Lex Fridman (14:19.760)
So when you look at how to best build volume,
Devon Larratt (14:23.200)
you want to do workouts that aren't particularly challenging
Lex Fridman (14:27.480)
to make you feel good and do them so that
Devon Larratt (14:30.720)
when you add them all together, you get the biggest number.
Lex Fridman (14:35.120)
So many easy workouts a day that are specific as possible,
Devon Larratt (14:41.320)
in my opinion, is the best way to lay the foundation
Lex Fridman (14:45.440)
for an extreme peak.
Lex Fridman (14:47.040)
And precision, right?
Lex Fridman (14:49.920)
Like there's no more precise way to get strong
Devon Larratt (14:53.640)
at arm wrestling than arm wrestle.
Lex Fridman (14:57.440)
So how often can you arm wrestle?
Lex Fridman (15:00.560)
What's your training regimen?
Lex Fridman (15:02.520)
You've talked about this as the climb.
Lex Fridman (15:07.760)
What is the training process to get great at arm wrestling?
Lex Fridman (15:12.880)
Well, again, it's gonna depend on what level you're at.
Devon Larratt (15:17.680)
The answer at the beginning might not be the same.
Lex Fridman (15:21.600)
For me, a guy who's been doing it almost 30 years,
Devon Larratt (15:26.160)
I have to harvest.
Lex Fridman (15:27.520)
I have to harvest energy from clubs.
Devon Larratt (15:30.720)
I call it cosmic punch.
Lex Fridman (15:32.440)
Sorry to interrupt.
Devon Larratt (15:33.280)
You were here in Austin, Texas.
Lex Fridman (15:34.400)
You are in Austin, Texas, but you were at the,
Lex Fridman (15:37.480)
what was it called?
Lex Fridman (15:38.320)
The water tank.
Lex Fridman (15:40.000)
And you had an awesome crowd.
Lex Fridman (15:41.320)
It was great.
Devon Larratt (15:42.240)
I get to watch.
Lex Fridman (15:43.080)
I got to interact with a lot of those guys.
Devon Larratt (15:46.720)
Yes, just amazing community, amazing human beings.
Lex Fridman (15:49.200)
I got to talk to Dmitry in Russian and in English.
Devon Larratt (15:54.400)
He's an engineer.
Lex Fridman (15:55.240)
His wife is an engineer.
Devon Larratt (15:56.160)
He's a brilliant dude, but also one of the toughest,
Lex Fridman (15:59.800)
I guess, guys you faced there.
Lex Fridman (16:01.560)
But you faced, I don't know how many people.
Lex Fridman (16:03.760)
It must've been hundreds of matches.
Lex Fridman (16:05.640)
So the bar was full.
Lex Fridman (16:07.320)
Yeah, and that for me is a perfect training scenario.
Devon Larratt (16:10.200)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (16:11.040)
So if I go in and just kind of be,
Devon Larratt (16:13.680)
I'm like a lightning rod,
Lex Fridman (16:15.400)
and I just absorb everything that I can get from people,
Devon Larratt (16:20.480)
all their effort, that's perfect.
Lex Fridman (16:24.520)
That's perfect.
Devon Larratt (16:25.360)
I'm lucky because I'm in a place that I can handle it.
Lex Fridman (16:29.720)
If I was losing or failing, this would not be optimal.
Lex Fridman (16:35.040)
But because I'm strong enough,
Lex Fridman (16:37.000)
I've been doing it long enough that I can kind of absorb it
Devon Larratt (16:39.480)
without damaging me, this is perfect.
Lex Fridman (16:42.600)
This is perfect.
Devon Larratt (16:43.840)
I typically, when I'm training up for a very serious match,
Lex Fridman (16:47.920)
I'll try and do that three or four times a week.
Lex Fridman (16:51.880)
And then the days in between,
Lex Fridman (16:54.360)
I will just do blood flow rehab, blood flow rehab.
Devon Larratt (16:58.560)
I will never hit a PR, a record.
Lex Fridman (17:01.280)
I'll never do it anymore.
Devon Larratt (17:03.040)
I don't do it.
Lex Fridman (17:04.300)
I used to.
Devon Larratt (17:05.140)
A lot of things change, and that's why I say
Lex Fridman (17:06.880)
there's a lot of ways to do it.
Devon Larratt (17:08.760)
This is currently a system that's working very well for me.
Lex Fridman (17:12.520)
So when you say PR, you're not aggressively chasing a peak.
Devon Larratt (17:16.960)
You're just building and building and building.
Lex Fridman (17:19.000)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (17:19.840)
My only peak that I care about is for this cycle,
Lex Fridman (17:24.000)
the 25th of June.
Devon Larratt (17:25.380)
That's my only PR.
Lex Fridman (17:26.940)
Let's talk about the 25th of June.
Devon Larratt (17:29.560)
Oh, yeah.
Lex Fridman (17:30.760)
Let's talk about Levan Siginashvili, the Georgian Hulk.
Lex Fridman (17:39.120)
Question number one, is it possible to beat him?
Lex Fridman (17:42.500)
He is widely acknowledged as the most powerful person
Devon Larratt (17:49.720)
in arm wrestling today.
Lex Fridman (17:51.640)
Is he beatable?
Lex Fridman (17:52.860)
And if so, how?
Lex Fridman (17:54.940)
Everybody's beatable.
Devon Larratt (17:56.340)
Everybody's beatable.
Lex Fridman (17:57.280)
Levan is incredible.
Devon Larratt (17:58.780)
He is what this modern peak of arm wrestling represents.
Lex Fridman (18:07.180)
So for people who are just listening,
Devon Larratt (18:08.780)
we also have an overlay of a video
Lex Fridman (18:11.540)
of Levan going against Vitaliy Levin,
Devon Larratt (18:14.800)
another top three person in the world, perhaps,
Lex Fridman (18:18.860)
in arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (18:20.400)
And Levan's the guy on the right, just big.
Lex Fridman (18:23.700)
I love it.
Lex Fridman (18:25.580)
And the aggression, I mean, actually,
Lex Fridman (18:28.800)
sort of underneath it all, he seems to be a teddy bear,
Lex Fridman (18:31.320)
but when he turns it on, it's raw power.
Lex Fridman (18:36.540)
He's the full package.
Devon Larratt (18:38.020)
Levan is, he represents the pinnacle.
Lex Fridman (18:42.220)
There's Dennis in the background.
Devon Larratt (18:44.060)
He's like, I wanna be back in there.
Lex Fridman (18:47.380)
Levan has a lot of bases covered.
Devon Larratt (18:49.820)
He's, I mean, he's curling 300 pounds with one arm.
Lex Fridman (18:54.180)
I mean, the strength that he shows for arm wrestling
Devon Larratt (19:00.660)
is so far ahead of the field.
Lex Fridman (19:02.980)
He's very, very strong.
Lex Fridman (19:07.020)
But it's absolutely possible.
Lex Fridman (19:10.420)
It's absolutely possible.
Devon Larratt (19:11.560)
The one thing that I'm confident about,
Lex Fridman (19:14.180)
well, I'd say there's two things.
Devon Larratt (19:16.120)
The two things I'm confident about
Lex Fridman (19:18.180)
is that I have more experience than he does.
Lex Fridman (19:21.180)
And experience counts for a lot.
Lex Fridman (19:25.300)
The other thing is my ability to breathe and recover.
Lex Fridman (19:31.860)
So if ever there's an opportunity for the tide to turn,
Lex Fridman (19:37.480)
that's, I think, where you'll never get it back.
Lex Fridman (19:40.140)
So I think if I can somehow find a hole in his game,
Lex Fridman (19:45.180)
then, yeah.
Lex Fridman (19:46.940)
So you want to hold off the initial assault of power
Lex Fridman (19:51.380)
and then worm out and to find the hole.
Lex Fridman (19:56.420)
And then, how much of that is mental?
Lex Fridman (1:00:03.460)
I can't, I can't explain it.
Lex Fridman (1:00:05.540)
And I haven't really tried hard enough to try to.
Lex Fridman (1:00:09.340)
But something changed.
Devon Larratt (1:00:10.660)
Something happened there, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:00:12.540)
Something happened to me.
Devon Larratt (1:00:13.460)
I was sore for about three or four months afterwards.
Lex Fridman (1:00:15.820)
It's like it smoked out my entire body.
Devon Larratt (1:00:18.580)
Yeah, that whole summer I was kind of sore.
Lex Fridman (1:00:21.420)
And yeah, and then after that,
Devon Larratt (1:00:23.660)
like two or three years later,
Lex Fridman (1:00:25.140)
that's when I won the world championships.
Devon Larratt (1:00:29.020)
Yeah, I mean, all the matches are,
Lex Fridman (1:00:30.860)
you know, you get something from people, like, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:00:33.660)
you study them, you take something from them.
Lex Fridman (1:00:37.380)
People have an invisible crown and he had one.
Lex Fridman (1:00:42.060)
And I think I took it from him.
Lex Fridman (1:00:43.620)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:00:44.460)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:00:45.300)
Maybe that was the feeling of wearing the crown.
Devon Larratt (1:00:48.300)
Yeah, maybe.
Lex Fridman (1:00:50.140)
What about all the trash talk?
Lex Fridman (1:00:51.540)
How much of that did you learn?
Lex Fridman (1:00:53.020)
Does that come naturally to you?
Devon Larratt (1:00:54.300)
You're one of the most charismatic, fun.
Lex Fridman (1:00:56.420)
I mean, there's always like respect behind it.
Devon Larratt (1:00:59.460)
I would say to me, and I'm a fan of a lot of sports,
Lex Fridman (1:01:02.580)
you're one of the greatest trash talkers in all of sports
Devon Larratt (1:01:06.300)
that I've ever seen because you're able to talk shit,
Lex Fridman (1:01:10.620)
but there's so much love and respect behind it.
Devon Larratt (1:01:13.180)
It's just masterful.
Lex Fridman (1:01:14.340)
But you also get into people's heads in the moment.
Devon Larratt (1:01:17.260)
It's beautiful to watch
Lex Fridman (1:01:18.380)
because it really gets to some people.
Lex Fridman (1:01:21.660)
So where does that come from?
Lex Fridman (1:01:22.860)
It's a powerful weapon, right?
Devon Larratt (1:01:24.580)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:01:25.420)
Your voice is a powerful, powerful weapon.
Lex Fridman (1:01:28.260)
And it's underutilized by so many athletes
Lex Fridman (1:01:31.420)
because they think that it's not sportsmanlike
Devon Larratt (1:01:34.860)
or something like that.
Lex Fridman (1:01:37.180)
But the truth is, I mean, you can be a weak person,
Lex Fridman (1:01:43.900)
but with your voice, you can influence
Lex Fridman (1:01:46.620)
and change any number of things.
Lex Fridman (1:01:48.820)
And the same thing happens in a fight between two people.
Lex Fridman (1:01:52.340)
If you can just be a never ending, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:01:55.860)
flow of negative encouragement to someone
Lex Fridman (1:01:59.940)
or, you know, suggestion, anything can happen.
Devon Larratt (1:02:05.740)
It's a tool.
Lex Fridman (1:02:08.300)
And when you're fighting a person,
Devon Larratt (1:02:11.260)
you're not just fighting them.
Lex Fridman (1:02:13.340)
You're fighting everyone who's watching.
Devon Larratt (1:02:15.820)
You're fighting the crowd, the referees.
Lex Fridman (1:02:19.220)
And, you know, to get in the most ideal positions,
Devon Larratt (1:02:24.220)
situations, you need to use your voice, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:02:27.540)
Yeah, and there's, for people who haven't seen,
Devon Larratt (1:02:30.500)
I definitely recommend you watch
Lex Fridman (1:02:32.020)
a bunch of arm wrestling matches
Devon Larratt (1:02:33.300)
because there's a crowd really gets into it.
Lex Fridman (1:02:36.020)
And it feels like there's a really intimate connection
Devon Larratt (1:02:38.940)
with the crowd.
Lex Fridman (1:02:39.860)
I suppose because the crowd is allowed
Devon Larratt (1:02:41.340)
to be very close to you.
Lex Fridman (1:02:42.180)
Yeah, I love it.
Devon Larratt (1:02:45.140)
I want the crowd like right up on me.
Lex Fridman (1:02:47.500)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:02:48.700)
So sometimes, oh yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:02:52.820)
So who are you, whenever you talk to somebody,
Lex Fridman (1:02:56.420)
you literally pick somebody from the crowd?
Lex Fridman (1:02:58.220)
Oh yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:02:59.060)
Oh yeah, I'll fucking, like I'll start fucking off
Lex Fridman (1:03:02.420)
his fans and like, yeah, like I'll start talking
Devon Larratt (1:03:06.540)
to their wives or whatever.
Lex Fridman (1:03:08.340)
Yeah, yeah, there's Jody.
Devon Larratt (1:03:12.860)
She's pretty dangerous to listen to also.
Lex Fridman (1:03:16.100)
But yeah, one of his buddies, Mike Solares,
Devon Larratt (1:03:18.300)
who's, you know, really good arm wrestler,
Lex Fridman (1:03:21.540)
was cheering for him, so I started to go after him.
Devon Larratt (1:03:25.300)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:03:26.700)
Smiling the whole time.
Lex Fridman (1:03:27.740)
Yeah, it's fun, right?
Lex Fridman (1:03:29.060)
It's fun.
Devon Larratt (1:03:29.900)
It's a fan, it's fun to listen to,
Lex Fridman (1:03:31.740)
but it's also, what's fun is how much it actually affects
Devon Larratt (1:03:35.300)
some of the people you're facing.
Lex Fridman (1:03:36.620)
They get frustrated.
Devon Larratt (1:03:37.700)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:03:38.540)
It's great to see.
Lex Fridman (1:03:39.380)
Well, you have to fight, right?
Lex Fridman (1:03:40.860)
Like a lot of people think things will be given to them.
Lex Fridman (1:03:43.940)
And the thing that, you know, I've always believed
Lex Fridman (1:03:47.100)
from the time I was very young,
Devon Larratt (1:03:48.460)
like I was convinced that our inevitable death
Lex Fridman (1:03:54.820)
was gonna come from aliens, right?
Devon Larratt (1:03:57.100)
Like some super aggressive, super violent species
Lex Fridman (1:04:01.300)
was gonna come and smoke us all, you know?
Lex Fridman (1:04:03.740)
And I'm like, I'm not like that.
Lex Fridman (1:04:06.620)
I'm like, but as soon as one person is,
Lex Fridman (1:04:09.140)
then you're forced to have to accept it as reality, right?
Lex Fridman (1:04:12.900)
So I like to fight for every single thing.
Devon Larratt (1:04:17.900)
I like to try and be more and more aggressive.
Lex Fridman (1:04:20.500)
And if someone matches me,
Devon Larratt (1:04:22.380)
that's when I can use my endurance.
Lex Fridman (1:04:24.140)
And if they don't, then I have the tactical advantage.
Lex Fridman (1:04:27.580)
So that's kind of my balance point.
Lex Fridman (1:04:29.300)
And then, by the way, you also yell at the ref.
Devon Larratt (1:04:31.820)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:04:32.660)
I mean, the games, there's like levels to this game,
Lex Fridman (1:04:35.540)
but you know, the feeling sometimes
Lex Fridman (1:04:37.580)
when people get frustrated is like,
Devon Larratt (1:04:38.820)
okay, this person's cheating,
Lex Fridman (1:04:40.500)
or like you're trying to get a good grip
Devon Larratt (1:04:43.580)
before it goes.
Lex Fridman (1:04:47.460)
And I think some of the frustration
Devon Larratt (1:04:50.140)
in combination with the trash talk is,
Lex Fridman (1:04:52.260)
well, this person is cheating,
Lex Fridman (1:04:54.020)
but everybody is like kind of trying to cheat,
Lex Fridman (1:04:56.580)
get an edge within the rules.
Devon Larratt (1:04:58.820)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:04:59.740)
So I try and just ramp it, ramp it, ramp it.
Lex Fridman (1:05:04.460)
But you know, everybody's different.
Lex Fridman (1:05:06.740)
I've learned how to play the game
Devon Larratt (1:05:08.860)
based off of the tools that I have physically.
Lex Fridman (1:05:11.300)
And for me, this works because, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:05:14.740)
my genetic makeup is more of a persistence hunter, right?
Lex Fridman (1:05:19.460)
So like, I need to extend things,
Lex Fridman (1:05:21.540)
and that works well for me.
Lex Fridman (1:05:25.660)
You know, if I was more explosive,
Devon Larratt (1:05:28.980)
I probably wouldn't have the same strategies.
Lex Fridman (1:05:31.540)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:05:33.340)
By the way, for people who are watching,
Lex Fridman (1:05:36.300)
you're wearing a No Limits hoodie,
Devon Larratt (1:05:37.740)
which is one of your nicknames.
Lex Fridman (1:05:40.260)
I don't wash this thing too much.
Devon Larratt (1:05:42.380)
It's my bacterial shield to the world.
Lex Fridman (1:05:45.460)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:05:46.300)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:05:47.540)
Awesome.
Lex Fridman (1:05:48.380)
So you mentioned Jody.
Lex Fridman (1:05:49.220)
She's often in your corner
Lex Fridman (1:05:51.180)
and does perhaps more trash talking than even you.
Lex Fridman (1:05:54.820)
So I mean, if we could step away,
Devon Larratt (1:05:58.460)
she's an incredible human being.
Lex Fridman (1:06:00.060)
As sort of as a fan, it's fun to watch the two of you,
Devon Larratt (1:06:04.140)
both when you're arm wrestling and just as people.
Lex Fridman (1:06:07.380)
I just see so much, I don't know,
Devon Larratt (1:06:11.660)
kindness and love radiating from the two of you
Lex Fridman (1:06:14.860)
whenever you're trash talking
Devon Larratt (1:06:17.100)
or talking about just random things
Lex Fridman (1:06:19.540)
or just talking about life.
Devon Larratt (1:06:20.620)
It's just a beautiful thing to watch.
Lex Fridman (1:06:22.020)
And thank you for sharing that with the world.
Lex Fridman (1:06:23.460)
But maybe can you, she paid me to ask you this,
Lex Fridman (1:06:28.780)
but what are the things you love about Jody,
Lex Fridman (1:06:32.220)
your wife, Jody Laird?
Lex Fridman (1:06:33.500)
What are the ways she's affected your life?
Devon Larratt (1:06:38.540)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:06:39.980)
Jody and I go way back, right?
Devon Larratt (1:06:42.660)
We were in high school together.
Lex Fridman (1:06:46.700)
The thing that I admire most in people is bravery.
Devon Larratt (1:06:53.900)
To me, it's the most admirable quality.
Lex Fridman (1:06:57.780)
And Jody always has inspired me
Devon Larratt (1:07:02.780)
because she's such a fighter.
Lex Fridman (1:07:04.780)
If she believes that something's true,
Devon Larratt (1:07:09.180)
she does not back down.
Lex Fridman (1:07:10.780)
She will not.
Lex Fridman (1:07:11.860)
And not to say that she can't change her mind
Lex Fridman (1:07:14.980)
because she can, but while she is convicted,
Devon Larratt (1:07:19.300)
she will not stop fighting.
Lex Fridman (1:07:22.500)
She's pulled me out of the fire repeatedly.
Devon Larratt (1:07:25.340)
We've lived through so many things.
Lex Fridman (1:07:28.540)
Very lucky.
Lex Fridman (1:07:29.580)
How has she made you a better arm wrestler?
Lex Fridman (1:07:32.180)
She's fed me.
Devon Larratt (1:07:35.340)
Yeah, I could see your videos of your house
Lex Fridman (1:07:38.260)
basically coming apart when she's not there.
Devon Larratt (1:07:40.460)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:07:42.860)
Yeah, without Jody, I'm on the street living in a tent
Lex Fridman (1:07:46.740)
and yeah, eating dog food.
Lex Fridman (1:07:50.060)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:07:53.500)
Bravery.
Lex Fridman (1:07:54.460)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:07:55.300)
What about love?
Lex Fridman (1:07:56.140)
How has love made you stronger?
Devon Larratt (1:07:57.620)
Now we're gonna make Devin uncomfortable.
Lex Fridman (1:08:00.100)
Yeah, love is difficult to accept.
Devon Larratt (1:08:04.300)
Love is one of those things that,
Lex Fridman (1:08:08.460)
a lot of times, you don't feel worthy of it.
Lex Fridman (1:08:12.700)
And so it's hard sometimes to accept someone's love.
Lex Fridman (1:08:15.900)
And someone who really loves you,
Devon Larratt (1:08:18.940)
they'll love you even when you don't.
Lex Fridman (1:08:22.300)
And here you go, you're gonna make me cry, Alex.
Devon Larratt (1:08:25.060)
Yeah, Jody and I have been through so much.
Lex Fridman (1:08:29.020)
And she's shown me how she supported me
Devon Larratt (1:08:35.500)
just repeatedly, repeatedly.
Lex Fridman (1:08:37.660)
Some of that is loyalty and patience and perseverance
Lex Fridman (1:08:40.660)
and all those things.
Lex Fridman (1:08:41.860)
That's like when love really shows itself.
Devon Larratt (1:08:46.220)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:08:47.060)
It's like sticking through together for years
Devon Larratt (1:08:49.420)
even when you're through the shitty times.
Lex Fridman (1:08:52.660)
Love and faith are powerful forces in this universe.
Devon Larratt (1:08:57.060)
Without them, we can descend into darkness very quickly.
Lex Fridman (1:09:02.020)
As a world, even between people.
Devon Larratt (1:09:04.660)
When love and faith is destroyed, then we fall apart.
Lex Fridman (1:09:11.020)
And I've been graced by the love that Jody's given me.
Devon Larratt (1:09:16.460)
It's allowed me to continue to build.
Lex Fridman (1:09:19.860)
When you have love between people, then you build together.
Devon Larratt (1:09:23.820)
I love my family, I love Canada,
Lex Fridman (1:09:27.780)
I love the arm wrestling community.
Devon Larratt (1:09:29.380)
I have a love for what we're trying to achieve
Lex Fridman (1:09:31.580)
as a human species, you know?
Lex Fridman (1:09:33.700)
And when that falls apart, we don't have much.
Lex Fridman (1:09:38.700)
Yeah, just with my boy there, yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:09:42.500)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:09:43.340)
You also mentioned you once had a job
Devon Larratt (1:09:50.580)
where your death was a real possibility.
Lex Fridman (1:09:54.540)
So you were in the Canadian Special Forces.
Lex Fridman (1:09:56.980)
What did you take away from that experience,
Lex Fridman (1:10:01.420)
that time in your life?
Devon Larratt (1:10:02.900)
It was such a great life.
Lex Fridman (1:10:05.820)
Really, really loved it.
Devon Larratt (1:10:07.100)
Honestly, I never wanted to leave.
Lex Fridman (1:10:09.620)
I never thought I would leave.
Devon Larratt (1:10:10.820)
I thought I'd be there my whole life.
Lex Fridman (1:10:15.220)
A real honor to get to serve.
Lex Fridman (1:10:18.260)
What did you get to do?
Lex Fridman (1:10:19.420)
What was the things you loved craftsmanship wise,
Lex Fridman (1:10:22.380)
like fun things you get to do, learn and challenge yourself?
Lex Fridman (1:10:25.900)
And you mentioned sort of honor in terms of the serving part.
Devon Larratt (1:10:31.180)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:10:33.220)
Yeah, my favorite thing about serving in the Special Forces
Devon Larratt (1:10:38.220)
was for sure the people that I worked with.
Lex Fridman (1:10:40.540)
That's probably the first thing I could say, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:10:43.900)
I never, I always felt like totally comfortable
Lex Fridman (1:10:48.340)
and putting my life in the other guy's hands.
Devon Larratt (1:10:51.500)
I was so happy to be in a place where I felt I could follow.
Lex Fridman (1:10:56.500)
Like didn't matter.
Devon Larratt (1:10:59.580)
Like I knew that the people ahead of me were incredible.
Lex Fridman (1:11:03.380)
I knew the people beside me were incredible.
Lex Fridman (1:11:05.940)
So just having that faith in your team, it's very special.
Lex Fridman (1:11:09.900)
And to know that they're there for a reason
Devon Larratt (1:11:12.580)
that has nothing to do with money, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:11:15.180)
and that's what kind of brings everybody together
Devon Larratt (1:11:17.740)
is you're there for a higher purpose.
Lex Fridman (1:11:21.100)
And in terms of being an adrenaline junkie,
Devon Larratt (1:11:24.380)
there's nothing like it.
Lex Fridman (1:11:25.620)
I mean, there's nothing like, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:11:27.420)
going out at night and fighting.
Lex Fridman (1:11:29.820)
And when I say fighting, like my whole life I wanted to fight.
Lex Fridman (1:11:33.860)
And to me, there's a lot of, and look at,
Lex Fridman (1:11:39.220)
I've said this in the past
Lex Fridman (1:11:40.740)
and I think it's been a personal failure of mine
Lex Fridman (1:11:43.100)
because I've said things like,
Devon Larratt (1:11:44.740)
it's the highest level that you can do.
Lex Fridman (1:11:46.380)
And I don't believe that to be true anymore.
Lex Fridman (1:11:48.220)
But at the time, I thought it was the best way
Lex Fridman (1:11:52.740)
I could express my drives that I had, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:11:56.580)
to be a fighter.
Lex Fridman (1:11:58.780)
So your sense in the past and maybe in part now
Devon Larratt (1:12:02.060)
is that sort of fighting is when humans get a chance
Lex Fridman (1:12:05.820)
to express themselves deeply, like that mix of the bravery,
Devon Larratt (1:12:12.180)
the integrity, the, whatever that is that makes us human,
Lex Fridman (1:12:17.620)
that human spirit can really shine.
Lex Fridman (1:12:19.420)
And I don't believe that anymore.
Lex Fridman (1:12:21.060)
I believe that you can do that in any field,
Devon Larratt (1:12:24.220)
in any discipline, you know, if you go hard enough,
Lex Fridman (1:12:26.860)
it all kind of starts to feel the same.
Lex Fridman (1:12:28.980)
But at the time, that, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:12:31.740)
expression to me was really, really awesome.
Devon Larratt (1:12:34.380)
I loved close quarter battle.
Lex Fridman (1:12:36.580)
That was my favorite thing.
Devon Larratt (1:12:37.900)
That's really the whole reason I was there.
Lex Fridman (1:12:41.220)
Can you describe close quarter battle?
Devon Larratt (1:12:43.300)
Close quarter battle is team fighting.
Lex Fridman (1:12:46.820)
So, and it can look a lot of different ways,
Lex Fridman (1:12:50.420)
but basically it's ground troops doing something
Lex Fridman (1:12:55.420)
and it's ground troops doing some kind of a mission.
Lex Fridman (1:13:00.460)
And it's the orchestrated movement that is the skill.
Lex Fridman (1:13:04.180)
The orchestrated movement and the drills done quickly
Lex Fridman (1:13:08.060)
and accurately, it's very difficult to do.
Lex Fridman (1:13:10.140)
With communication?
Devon Larratt (1:13:11.740)
With communication.
Lex Fridman (1:13:12.580)
Yeah, so it's basically cooperating together,
Devon Larratt (1:13:16.260)
communicating, there's some strategy,
Lex Fridman (1:13:18.260)
there's some adapting to the changing environment.
Lex Fridman (1:13:20.900)
And the more the team works together,
Lex Fridman (1:13:22.420)
the less communication there is.
Devon Larratt (1:13:24.060)
Yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:13:26.220)
And that's an amazing thing to do,
Devon Larratt (1:13:28.140)
to be part of a machine, well, machine,
Lex Fridman (1:13:30.740)
a team of people who can fight together like that.
Devon Larratt (1:13:35.780)
I think it's, we're really designed to do it.
Lex Fridman (1:13:39.900)
Like, as good as we can fight as individuals,
Devon Larratt (1:13:42.700)
the thing that makes us really good
Lex Fridman (1:13:43.940)
is our ability to fight as a team.
Devon Larratt (1:13:46.420)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:13:47.740)
Yeah, that's one of the things that makes us really human
Devon Larratt (1:13:50.500)
is that collective intelligence, that social aspect.
Lex Fridman (1:13:52.940)
And fighting is the highest of stakes.
Lex Fridman (1:13:56.620)
So that social interaction under the highest of stakes
Lex Fridman (1:13:59.260)
is, really does bring out something that's deeply human.
Devon Larratt (1:14:06.340)
I mean, war in general brings out something deeply human.
Lex Fridman (1:14:10.380)
It does.
Devon Larratt (1:14:11.580)
It's, I mean, obvious to say that it's tragic
Lex Fridman (1:14:15.380)
that it results in so much loss of life and well being.
Devon Larratt (1:14:20.380)
Let me, if it's okay, for a brief moment
Lex Fridman (1:14:25.380)
to take us back to arm wrestling.
Devon Larratt (1:14:28.700)
We did this offline, we talked about,
Lex Fridman (1:14:31.660)
you gave me some advice about arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (1:14:34.020)
But maybe do a high level overview
Lex Fridman (1:14:35.820)
of the different styles and strategies
Devon Larratt (1:14:42.500)
that we've talked about.
Lex Fridman (1:14:43.420)
We talked about the importance of strength and power.
Lex Fridman (1:14:46.640)
But is there offensive, defensive styles?
Lex Fridman (1:14:49.940)
Is there, we mentioned King's move.
Lex Fridman (1:14:52.700)
What would you classify your style as?
Lex Fridman (1:14:55.780)
It's nice for people that don't know.
Devon Larratt (1:14:58.300)
Maybe even zoom back out.
Lex Fridman (1:14:59.700)
So arm wrestling is a sport where two people have to,
Devon Larratt (1:15:08.220)
when we talk about strictly the sport,
Lex Fridman (1:15:09.800)
put their elbow on a particular pad,
Devon Larratt (1:15:12.180)
means they have to keep that elbow on that pad.
Lex Fridman (1:15:15.420)
And they win when the back of one of their hands
Devon Larratt (1:15:20.820)
crosses some kind of, or basically touches the table.
Lex Fridman (1:15:23.820)
That's it.
Lex Fridman (1:15:24.820)
And when you actually lock up, you do so,
Lex Fridman (1:15:30.420)
depending on the organization, without straps,
Devon Larratt (1:15:33.720)
meaning there's just you, agree, it's like mutual agreement
Lex Fridman (1:15:37.840)
that you're going to clasp your hands in a way that's fair
Lex Fridman (1:15:42.840)
and there's a referee that helps ensure that it's fair.
Lex Fridman (1:15:45.560)
But of course there's these little games going on.
Lex Fridman (1:15:47.880)
And then when you actually go all out with this battle,
Lex Fridman (1:15:51.300)
if there's no straps, you can slip out.
Lex Fridman (1:15:53.800)
So often you'll put the straps, which means you're,
Lex Fridman (1:15:57.040)
it's like marriage, you're committed for,
Devon Larratt (1:16:01.520)
like somebody will have to lose essentially.
Lex Fridman (1:16:04.280)
There's no pulling out.
Lex Fridman (1:16:06.520)
So that's sort of the battle within that.
Lex Fridman (1:16:11.240)
What are the different styles that you can speak to
Lex Fridman (1:16:13.440)
that people that don't know arm wrestling could understand?
Lex Fridman (1:16:17.560)
Yeah, we can start to kind of just dance
Devon Larratt (1:16:19.260)
around the subject a bit.
Lex Fridman (1:16:21.120)
I'd say there's a lot of different types.
Devon Larratt (1:16:25.840)
There's specialists and there's kind of blenders
Lex Fridman (1:16:31.280)
and people who are very versatile.
Devon Larratt (1:16:34.400)
A lot of guys win world championships on one singular move.
Lex Fridman (1:16:38.280)
They get just extremely crisp at say a hook or a top roll.
Lex Fridman (1:16:43.700)
And their style is very kind of focused.
Lex Fridman (1:16:46.900)
And you'll see it with a lot of athletes,
Devon Larratt (1:16:49.560)
like kind of a talk about guy who's very active,
Lex Fridman (1:16:54.160)
a guy called Jerry Cataret.
Devon Larratt (1:16:55.880)
As soon as you think Jerry Cataret,
Lex Fridman (1:16:57.740)
he's got a very unique style.
Devon Larratt (1:16:58.960)
He's got a flop wrist press.
Lex Fridman (1:17:01.040)
So most of his technique is built around this one system.
Devon Larratt (1:17:04.680)
Flop wrist means what it sounds like.
Lex Fridman (1:17:09.760)
Your wrist is flopped, so it looks like you're losing.
Lex Fridman (1:17:12.760)
So he is pushing from a losing position.
Lex Fridman (1:17:15.480)
No, he will be offensive.
Lex Fridman (1:17:18.060)
So he will be in a press, so offensively,
Lex Fridman (1:17:20.360)
so he'll give his hand away
Lex Fridman (1:17:22.500)
so that he can get his shoulder behind it properly.
Lex Fridman (1:17:24.720)
So he doesn't, wow.
Lex Fridman (1:17:27.360)
So you can press, press means push.
Lex Fridman (1:17:31.160)
Push, yeah, without having that hook position.
Devon Larratt (1:17:36.680)
Which is what most people are always looking for.
Lex Fridman (1:17:40.320)
And Jerry's looking for it as well.
Lex Fridman (1:17:41.800)
And then, so example, there's another one.
Lex Fridman (1:17:43.720)
There's another specialist, Matt Mask.
Lex Fridman (1:17:45.880)
He's a top roller, right?
Lex Fridman (1:17:48.720)
Basically, that's his great move is a top roll.
Lex Fridman (1:17:51.760)
And his other weapons aren't nearly as powerful.
Lex Fridman (1:17:55.720)
Just incredible top roll.
Lex Fridman (1:17:57.840)
And then you have a lot of athletes that are more blended.
Lex Fridman (1:18:00.760)
They have a lot of good options.
Devon Larratt (1:18:03.680)
I think that I probably fall more into that category.
Lex Fridman (1:18:07.120)
You have people who are more speed guys, okay?
Lex Fridman (1:18:10.760)
So they try and do very little, I call it attrition, right?
Lex Fridman (1:18:17.040)
So a lot of people are very willing to trade energy, right?
Devon Larratt (1:18:21.400)
Because they have faith that their gas tank
Lex Fridman (1:18:24.600)
or their pool eventually will tire the other person out.
Lex Fridman (1:18:27.280)
So anytime there's a trade, they'll trade.
Lex Fridman (1:18:30.280)
Whereas a guy like Travis Bajan,
Devon Larratt (1:18:33.800)
he was very, very well known
Lex Fridman (1:18:35.800)
as being extremely explosive, right?
Lex Fridman (1:18:38.600)
But if the match stops, typically he's gonna lose.
Lex Fridman (1:18:43.160)
All right, so based off of your genetics, your hands,
Devon Larratt (1:18:48.520)
there's a lot of ways to skin it.
Lex Fridman (1:18:50.560)
So I think you said something like you're a 22nd guy.
Devon Larratt (1:18:55.560)
That's right, I'm a 22nd guy.
Lex Fridman (1:19:00.280)
So what are the seconds we're talking about?
Lex Fridman (1:19:03.220)
So a lot of the power people,
Lex Fridman (1:19:04.760)
they want to win in the first maybe five seconds,
Devon Larratt (1:19:06.840)
like just that first push, that first press.
Lex Fridman (1:19:10.880)
Absolutely, right to the pad, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:19:14.600)
And so you're trying to hold off that attack.
Lex Fridman (1:19:17.400)
Yeah, if I beat you in a second,
Devon Larratt (1:19:19.440)
we're not in the same world, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:19:21.720)
But when I'm with my peer group,
Devon Larratt (1:19:25.580)
I will typically win 20 seconds and beyond.
Lex Fridman (1:19:28.900)
That's a typical win for me when I'm with a peer.
Devon Larratt (1:19:33.180)
Whereas other guys, when they're with their peers,
Lex Fridman (1:19:35.780)
they'll win in a second, right?
Devon Larratt (1:19:37.380)
That's how they do it, that's the way they're built,
Lex Fridman (1:19:40.060)
that's the way they train.
Devon Larratt (1:19:43.340)
Yeah, most guys at a higher level at all
Lex Fridman (1:19:46.100)
starts to kind of, it starts to get more and more difficult
Devon Larratt (1:19:49.380)
to be a specialist at the high level now.
Lex Fridman (1:19:51.860)
Some people just have little holes in their games.
Devon Larratt (1:19:56.260)
It's rare to get someone who can really do all the moves.
Lex Fridman (1:20:00.380)
It's very rare.
Lex Fridman (1:20:04.220)
Where would you put Levan?
Lex Fridman (1:20:06.740)
I would not say he's a specialist.
Devon Larratt (1:20:08.740)
I'd say his top roll is his strongest move.
Lex Fridman (1:20:11.700)
Top roll?
Devon Larratt (1:20:12.540)
Top roll is his strongest move, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:20:14.780)
And the interesting thing about the specialist
Lex Fridman (1:20:18.700)
versus the blender, there's a counter, right?
Lex Fridman (1:20:23.900)
Every move has a move that theoretically
Devon Larratt (1:20:27.420)
should be the right choice.
Lex Fridman (1:20:29.460)
So if you're a single move guy,
Devon Larratt (1:20:33.300)
there's gonna be a guy out there who'll get you.
Lex Fridman (1:20:35.700)
Yeah, it'll be very difficult for you to beat that guy.
Lex Fridman (1:20:39.460)
But when you come to a tournament,
Lex Fridman (1:20:43.220)
typically specialists do much better
Devon Larratt (1:20:45.660)
in tournament scenarios because their singular move
Lex Fridman (1:20:49.460)
can get them through a tournament
Devon Larratt (1:20:50.940)
very quickly and efficiently.
Lex Fridman (1:20:53.140)
Whereas you get a blender in a tournament,
Devon Larratt (1:20:55.340)
they typically will have longer and more difficult matches.
Lex Fridman (1:20:58.980)
And by, oh, right, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:21:00.980)
But in supermatch format, typically blenders do better.
Lex Fridman (1:21:06.780)
So we offline also talked about arm sumo
Devon Larratt (1:21:09.700)
or freedom arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (1:21:11.540)
I don't know how you wanna call it.
Devon Larratt (1:21:12.740)
Oh, I love freedom.
Lex Fridman (1:21:13.740)
Well, exactly, North American way.
Lex Fridman (1:21:20.580)
So this is this idea, and I watched a few videos,
Lex Fridman (1:21:25.420)
and it looks fun, is basically removing the restriction
Devon Larratt (1:21:29.020)
of having to keep your elbow on the pad
Lex Fridman (1:21:32.120)
and just being able to arm wrestle over the whole table.
Devon Larratt (1:21:35.420)
I think you've mentioned that the criticism that gets
Lex Fridman (1:21:38.040)
is it might be injury prone or something like that.
Lex Fridman (1:21:40.820)
So can you describe this arm sumo, freedom arm wrestling
Lex Fridman (1:21:44.260)
idea?
Devon Larratt (1:21:45.540)
When you come to freedom arm wrestling,
Lex Fridman (1:21:47.520)
basically it removes the limitation
Devon Larratt (1:21:50.620)
of a standard arm wrestling table.
Lex Fridman (1:21:52.820)
So basically every single thing
Devon Larratt (1:21:54.420)
is a freedom arm wrestling table.
Lex Fridman (1:21:56.040)
Some are better than others.
Lex Fridman (1:21:57.900)
So looking for that nice table where we can kind of
Lex Fridman (1:22:00.700)
stand apart from each other and we're anatomically
Devon Larratt (1:22:04.420)
in a fairly safe position.
Lex Fridman (1:22:07.020)
And the rules in freedom, the way you win,
Devon Larratt (1:22:09.740)
is the knuckles must either touch the tabletop
Lex Fridman (1:22:14.100)
or you hold it off the edge for a three count.
Lex Fridman (1:22:18.820)
So this is the main way to win.
Lex Fridman (1:22:20.180)
Yes, you can foul, like if you lift your elbow up,
Devon Larratt (1:22:21.980)
it's still a foul, but you have the entire playing surface.
Lex Fridman (1:22:25.140)
So your elbow's no longer limited to your seven by seven
Devon Larratt (1:22:28.040)
or seven by nine pad, so you can move it all over the table.
Lex Fridman (1:22:30.940)
You can move your body around the table a bit too.
Lex Fridman (1:22:33.980)
And if it's a big table, your body
Lex Fridman (1:22:36.100)
could largely be on the table.
Devon Larratt (1:22:38.180)
Yeah, so basically it's like adjusting your ring size.
Lex Fridman (1:22:41.060)
So arm wrestling, you're fighting in a phone booth, right?
Lex Fridman (1:22:44.620)
So you're fighting in a field, you're fighting just bigger.
Lex Fridman (1:22:47.860)
So it just makes the sport bigger.
Devon Larratt (1:22:50.200)
Yeah, this is Japan.
Lex Fridman (1:22:51.420)
But even on a small table, even in a slightly larger
Devon Larratt (1:22:55.840)
phone booth, you can get a lot more fun and variety.
Lex Fridman (1:22:59.460)
It's very interesting to watch.
Devon Larratt (1:23:00.300)
I love it.
Lex Fridman (1:23:01.380)
I think it makes the sport bigger.
Devon Larratt (1:23:02.780)
I actually believe that it's the future of the sport.
Lex Fridman (1:23:05.420)
I really do.
Devon Larratt (1:23:06.780)
Because it makes it more accessible.
Lex Fridman (1:23:08.060)
Like you don't need the equipment.
Devon Larratt (1:23:09.220)
You can do it at a bar, all that kind of stuff.
Lex Fridman (1:23:11.260)
Yeah, less equipment requirements.
Devon Larratt (1:23:15.660)
Most kids start freedom.
Lex Fridman (1:23:16.960)
Like most kids arm wrestle on school desks.
Lex Fridman (1:23:19.740)
And like if you see a guy on the street, you're like,
Lex Fridman (1:23:22.180)
whatever, you can arm wrestle anywhere.
Devon Larratt (1:23:23.660)
You don't need to bring your table around with you.
Lex Fridman (1:23:26.380)
If we talked about the elite level,
Devon Larratt (1:23:29.800)
if somebody was interested in starting in arm wrestling
Lex Fridman (1:23:34.800)
or going from just like, you go to the gym,
Devon Larratt (1:23:40.800)
you kind of lift, you've arm wrestled a few times,
Lex Fridman (1:23:43.800)
trying to get better at it, trying to learn.
Lex Fridman (1:23:45.880)
How would you advise getting better to where you can
Lex Fridman (1:23:49.480)
beat your closest buddies?
Devon Larratt (1:23:51.920)
That first step.
Lex Fridman (1:23:53.240)
First step, I'd say find people.
Devon Larratt (1:23:56.680)
Find people.
Lex Fridman (1:23:57.800)
Find good people.
Devon Larratt (1:24:00.160)
Volume.
Lex Fridman (1:24:01.480)
Well, get with a club.
Devon Larratt (1:24:02.320)
Get with people who know what they're doing,
Lex Fridman (1:24:03.520)
who can mentor you.
Lex Fridman (1:24:05.000)
And that's really cool.
Lex Fridman (1:24:06.460)
I realized there's a club in Austin.
Devon Larratt (1:24:08.640)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:24:09.480)
I'm sure there's in a lot of places.
Devon Larratt (1:24:10.300)
Oh, they're everywhere.
Lex Fridman (1:24:11.140)
We got this app called Armbet.
Devon Larratt (1:24:14.200)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:24:15.040)
Which is a app that helps you find other people there.
Devon Larratt (1:24:18.040)
Yeah, very easy.
Lex Fridman (1:24:19.320)
But I mean, they're all over social networks.
Devon Larratt (1:24:21.480)
I mean, it's kind of widespread now.
Lex Fridman (1:24:24.520)
But yeah, find people.
Devon Larratt (1:24:26.680)
Find people and it's just much easier to learn
Lex Fridman (1:24:30.440)
with another person and you'll get stronger that way.
Lex Fridman (1:24:33.740)
But I mean, do the lifts.
Lex Fridman (1:24:36.360)
I mean, if you go to the gym, just start doing the lifts.
Lex Fridman (1:24:39.580)
And right away, those will technically prepare you.
Lex Fridman (1:24:42.960)
What are the lifts?
Lex Fridman (1:24:44.400)
Can we describe what the first one is?
Lex Fridman (1:24:45.240)
Yeah, so I'd say if you wanna just keep it
Devon Larratt (1:24:48.160)
very, very simple, let's just talk about three.
Lex Fridman (1:24:50.840)
There's much more than three.
Lex Fridman (1:24:52.840)
But when you talk about energy allocation,
Lex Fridman (1:24:56.120)
these three lifts, in my opinion,
Devon Larratt (1:24:58.680)
should be like 90% of your investment.
Lex Fridman (1:25:03.320)
It's very big, these three lifts.
Lex Fridman (1:25:06.920)
And the exact percentages, you can argue about it,
Lex Fridman (1:25:10.560)
but we'll start off with the cupping of the wrist.
Devon Larratt (1:25:14.200)
Just this, it's a simple thing.
Lex Fridman (1:25:16.220)
And do it with a cable.
Devon Larratt (1:25:19.360)
You can get a thicker diameter, so it kind of
Lex Fridman (1:25:22.480)
is more out on your fingers where an armrest
Devon Larratt (1:25:25.000)
is gonna attack you.
Lex Fridman (1:25:26.320)
Because any good armrest is gonna attack your fingers.
Lex Fridman (1:25:28.500)
So like open hand.
Lex Fridman (1:25:30.080)
No, no.
Devon Larratt (1:25:31.280)
Well, I mean, for health, yes, you could.
Lex Fridman (1:25:33.880)
But if you wanna be really specific,
Devon Larratt (1:25:35.980)
you train exactly the way you would at a table.
Lex Fridman (1:25:38.700)
In the position that you actually start that match.
Devon Larratt (1:25:40.960)
Yeah, and then you're just doing this kind of thing.
Lex Fridman (1:25:43.520)
Yes, to your center.
Devon Larratt (1:25:47.080)
One of the big misconceptions in armwrestling
Lex Fridman (1:25:50.320)
is that you're aiming for that pin pad.
Devon Larratt (1:25:53.860)
No.
Lex Fridman (1:25:54.700)
The center.
Devon Larratt (1:25:56.140)
The chest up here.
Lex Fridman (1:25:56.980)
Bring it close to you.
Lex Fridman (1:25:58.200)
Make it come close to you, right?
Lex Fridman (1:25:59.760)
You see like whenever I do my exercises,
Devon Larratt (1:26:02.080)
the vector is always pulling straight towards me.
Lex Fridman (1:26:05.560)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:26:06.400)
Yeah, so just cupping close to you.
Lex Fridman (1:26:10.040)
The most dangerous thing that a person can do to me
Devon Larratt (1:26:12.520)
on an armwrestling match is just pull me away from my body.
Lex Fridman (1:26:15.400)
That's a terrible thing for me.
Devon Larratt (1:26:17.440)
Yeah, so that cupping, that's a massive part of the sport.
Lex Fridman (1:26:23.820)
So now when you think what does the cup do
Devon Larratt (1:26:26.980)
to the other person, if I cup, they get turned over.
Lex Fridman (1:26:32.320)
Right?
Lex Fridman (1:26:33.160)
So this has to get really strong.
Lex Fridman (1:26:36.720)
This pronation.
Lex Fridman (1:26:39.340)
So to fight that rolling.
Lex Fridman (1:26:42.960)
Exactly, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:26:44.280)
So that's through the thumb.
Lex Fridman (1:26:47.240)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:26:48.080)
Oh, so you put, got it, you put on the thumb
Lex Fridman (1:26:51.080)
and you put this motion.
Devon Larratt (1:26:52.820)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:26:53.680)
Got it.
Devon Larratt (1:26:54.520)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:26:55.340)
So those two things, those two things together,
Devon Larratt (1:26:57.240)
this cupping and rolling, this is what's gonna make
Lex Fridman (1:27:00.360)
the person's hand bend back, and once the person's hand
Devon Larratt (1:27:03.520)
is bent back, just their whole game gets cut to pieces.
Lex Fridman (1:27:07.960)
They have very little good options.
Devon Larratt (1:27:09.880)
It's all like nasty stuff.
Lex Fridman (1:27:12.140)
Wow.
Devon Larratt (1:27:12.980)
Yeah, so those two things, that's a huge part
Lex Fridman (1:27:16.000)
of your investment.
Devon Larratt (1:27:19.600)
Rise.
Lex Fridman (1:27:21.680)
Always be climbing.
Devon Larratt (1:27:22.920)
Yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman (1:27:24.740)
Yeah, those three simple things, that's what I would tell
Devon Larratt (1:27:28.760)
anybody to spend most of their time on if you wanna
Lex Fridman (1:27:31.200)
become an art wrestler.
Lex Fridman (1:27:32.360)
So bands would be good for this?
Lex Fridman (1:27:35.660)
Bands are great because they're easy to transport.
Devon Larratt (1:27:37.960)
The only problem I have with bands is like if you like
Lex Fridman (1:27:41.420)
to measure, you know, and if you like to be precise,
Devon Larratt (1:27:43.740)
bands just aren't that precise.
Lex Fridman (1:27:45.240)
Right, so to have growth.
Devon Larratt (1:27:46.760)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:27:47.600)
Just, I mean, it's just like, you know, you know exactly
Lex Fridman (1:27:50.000)
what you need, the prescription is kind of, a band
Lex Fridman (1:27:52.680)
is kind of like, and a lot of people, myself included,
Devon Larratt (1:27:55.680)
I like to know exactly my outputs, so weights.
Lex Fridman (1:28:02.160)
So would it be like cables?
Devon Larratt (1:28:04.200)
Yep.
Lex Fridman (1:28:05.240)
Cables are nice.
Devon Larratt (1:28:06.120)
Bands are great, too.
Lex Fridman (1:28:07.120)
I mix the two.
Devon Larratt (1:28:08.720)
Bands are when I kind of don't need to, they're more
Lex Fridman (1:28:14.320)
like easy for me.
Devon Larratt (1:28:15.760)
When I train bands, bands are dangerous
Lex Fridman (1:28:18.360)
because the acceleration is so high on them.
Devon Larratt (1:28:20.160)
Like when you screw up with band training,
Lex Fridman (1:28:22.000)
the acceleration is way faster than gravity, right?
Lex Fridman (1:28:25.320)
So if you do something bad, it can make it go
Lex Fridman (1:28:28.280)
really much worse.
Devon Larratt (1:28:29.560)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:28:30.440)
It's funny that you didn't mention bicep curls or.
Devon Larratt (1:28:35.040)
Well, it's a chain.
Lex Fridman (1:28:36.700)
It's a chain.
Lex Fridman (1:28:37.540)
And so you're, I mean, the idea if you focus on these three,
Lex Fridman (1:28:40.560)
the other stuff catches up, like it's all involved.
Devon Larratt (1:28:43.360)
This whole thing is involved.
Lex Fridman (1:28:45.040)
So if you have an ax, right, the blade of the ax,
Lex Fridman (1:28:50.040)
that's these things, right?
Lex Fridman (1:28:54.220)
Like you need the pointy end of all your attacks
Lex Fridman (1:28:57.420)
to be awesome, right?
Lex Fridman (1:28:59.500)
If you have a super sharp ax, you could have
Devon Larratt (1:29:02.020)
a shitty handle.
Lex Fridman (1:29:03.540)
Yeah, right?
Devon Larratt (1:29:05.100)
Yeah, so focus on that, the tip of the ax.
Lex Fridman (1:29:08.860)
Yeah, the tip of the ax is so important, right?
Devon Larratt (1:29:11.140)
Like if I have an awesome bicep and I can't quite use it,
Lex Fridman (1:29:15.100)
what's it good for, right?
Devon Larratt (1:29:16.660)
Yeah, I think a lot of the motions with the wrist
Lex Fridman (1:29:19.060)
that you mentioned are, just thinking about jiu jitsu,
Devon Larratt (1:29:22.420)
especially in the gi, there's a lot of,
Lex Fridman (1:29:25.940)
I mean, there's so much importance to this,
Lex Fridman (1:29:27.680)
and people don't often work it explicitly.
Lex Fridman (1:29:32.660)
So many of the chokes require ability to,
Devon Larratt (1:29:35.420)
it's almost like exactly like arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (1:29:37.500)
Very close.
Devon Larratt (1:29:38.340)
Because you're weak here, what's that called,
Lex Fridman (1:29:41.020)
flop wrist, and you're strong with the cup, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:29:45.460)
And so just getting the, whatever that's involved,
Lex Fridman (1:29:49.740)
the muscle, the turning, the pressure,
Devon Larratt (1:29:51.380)
because that's where also the choke comes.
Lex Fridman (1:29:54.140)
That little, the thing that makes you win in arm wrestling
Devon Larratt (1:29:57.740)
is also the thing that finishes the person
Lex Fridman (1:30:00.340)
when you have them grabbed.
Devon Larratt (1:30:02.180)
The strength is very similar.
Lex Fridman (1:30:03.740)
Yeah, it's fascinating, actually.
Devon Larratt (1:30:05.500)
Of course, like you said, if you wanna be very good,
Lex Fridman (1:30:08.300)
you should be doing the very specific exact motion.
Devon Larratt (1:30:12.060)
Yeah, so if I was gonna do jiu jitsu,
Lex Fridman (1:30:13.660)
I'd be like working out with the gi.
Devon Larratt (1:30:15.620)
Yeah, the problem is, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:30:18.540)
it's difficult to construct the exact,
Lex Fridman (1:30:24.100)
so you have to actually go with people,
Lex Fridman (1:30:25.700)
and then they don't like being choked on, right?
Lex Fridman (1:30:28.980)
So like it's hard to, I'm actually a big,
Lex Fridman (1:30:31.660)
we have these kinds of debates all the time,
Devon Larratt (1:30:33.820)
is, you know, I'm a big believer in drilling.
Lex Fridman (1:30:38.460)
I love doing something thousands of times.
Devon Larratt (1:30:40.780)
Like John Donahoe is somebody I mentioned to you about
Lex Fridman (1:30:43.580)
who, the jiu jitsu folks here,
Devon Larratt (1:30:46.020)
they're less believers in drilling.
Lex Fridman (1:30:48.020)
They see the value of almost like the mind
Devon Larratt (1:30:52.300)
of going live and exploring ideas.
Lex Fridman (1:30:55.420)
It's that play.
Devon Larratt (1:30:56.620)
You don't need to do the thing a thousand times.
Lex Fridman (1:30:58.980)
You just need to always be thinking about
Devon Larratt (1:31:02.020)
the little details that make you better,
Lex Fridman (1:31:05.260)
and then in action practicing,
Devon Larratt (1:31:07.340)
like developing the strength, the power,
Lex Fridman (1:31:09.980)
the explosive of the agility in action.
Lex Fridman (1:31:12.420)
So actually rolling.
Lex Fridman (1:31:14.100)
I don't, you know, I agree with this,
Lex Fridman (1:31:16.900)
but I just believe in volume more.
Lex Fridman (1:31:20.100)
Yeah, so you can accomplish it through volume.
Devon Larratt (1:31:22.180)
You can play a lot.
Lex Fridman (1:31:24.780)
Yes, exactly.
Devon Larratt (1:31:25.740)
Well, that's the, if you really wanna get it good
Lex Fridman (1:31:28.460)
is you're talking about, I mean,
Devon Larratt (1:31:30.780)
that's why a lot of these folks are training
Lex Fridman (1:31:33.660)
three times a day.
Devon Larratt (1:31:34.500)
They're doing, you know, they're putting in the hours,
Lex Fridman (1:31:37.020)
eight hours, nine hours, just.
Devon Larratt (1:31:40.140)
Well, that's tough, oh my God.
Lex Fridman (1:31:41.900)
Well, so there are a lot of them are not going hard.
Devon Larratt (1:31:44.060)
It's just being on the mat.
Lex Fridman (1:31:45.420)
Some of it is just sitting there talking through ideas,
Devon Larratt (1:31:48.020)
watching others or teaching, explaining stuff.
Lex Fridman (1:31:50.780)
It's just, it's like, it's not just physical.
Devon Larratt (1:31:53.820)
It's mental too, because you're keeping in your mind.
Lex Fridman (1:31:56.860)
And some of the greatest, they talk about the wrestlers
Devon Larratt (1:32:01.300)
I've talked with, the fighters, at the top of their career,
Lex Fridman (1:32:05.740)
they basically, George St. Pierre is like this,
Devon Larratt (1:32:10.340)
another fellow Canadian, is like,
Lex Fridman (1:32:14.260)
has stick figures in his head that he can't help.
Devon Larratt (1:32:17.340)
They're like in there, because if you train enough hours,
Lex Fridman (1:32:20.860)
you're, it's just gonna be in your head
Lex Fridman (1:32:23.420)
and they're all going to be playing around in your head.
Lex Fridman (1:32:25.780)
And some little detail over time,
Devon Larratt (1:32:27.860)
it's almost like computing or something like that.
Lex Fridman (1:32:29.740)
And that ends up having a result
Devon Larratt (1:32:32.540)
even though you're not physically doing anything.
Lex Fridman (1:32:34.740)
It's always in there.
Devon Larratt (1:32:36.700)
I do have to return to diet real quick.
Lex Fridman (1:32:41.280)
I know we talk about pancakes.
Devon Larratt (1:32:42.840)
Let me, quite seriously, you are one of the,
Lex Fridman (1:32:49.180)
I mean, strongest athletes in the world for your sport.
Lex Fridman (1:32:54.140)
So you have to get big, you have to get powerful,
Lex Fridman (1:32:56.360)
you have to get strong.
Lex Fridman (1:32:59.100)
What is the right diet for you for that?
Lex Fridman (1:33:02.060)
Like, what do you eat?
Lex Fridman (1:33:04.380)
How often do you eat, yeah, from the highest detail
Lex Fridman (1:33:10.500)
to the smallest, or the things that make you happy
Lex Fridman (1:33:12.860)
and feel good?
Lex Fridman (1:33:13.780)
Yeah, I've experimented with every diet.
Devon Larratt (1:33:17.820)
I've done it all, I've been a vegan, I've done raw,
Lex Fridman (1:33:22.080)
I've eaten only meat, I've eaten balanced,
Devon Larratt (1:33:26.220)
I've eaten like a bodybuilder, you know, you name it,
Lex Fridman (1:33:31.140)
I've probably tried it, I don't believe
Devon Larratt (1:33:36.400)
that it's as important in the sport of arm wrestling
Lex Fridman (1:33:40.360)
as it is perhaps in other sports.
Devon Larratt (1:33:43.540)
I believe that, I mean, just to be very basic,
Lex Fridman (1:33:47.380)
I mean, if you're eating enough food,
Devon Larratt (1:33:49.160)
you're probably gonna be okay.
Lex Fridman (1:33:52.560)
So it's just calories.
Devon Larratt (1:33:54.060)
I mean, really, I mean, not to overcomplicate it,
Lex Fridman (1:33:57.020)
but I mean, that's where the conversation starts
Devon Larratt (1:33:59.060)
where you're eating enough food.
Lex Fridman (1:34:01.620)
And it can come in any number of ways,
Lex Fridman (1:34:04.580)
and I don't think it's as important
Lex Fridman (1:34:08.420)
as a lot of other people do.
Devon Larratt (1:34:11.140)
I'm certainly irresponsible in a lot,
Lex Fridman (1:34:13.680)
but the thing is, back to like, volume, right?
Devon Larratt (1:34:17.420)
Like, you need to, like, if you wanna be
Lex Fridman (1:34:20.140)
a super heavyweight, it's very different
Devon Larratt (1:34:23.720)
than if you wanna be a weight category guy.
Lex Fridman (1:34:26.060)
If you wanna be a weight category guy,
Devon Larratt (1:34:27.780)
I'd say that you need to be more responsible,
Lex Fridman (1:34:30.180)
make better choices.
Devon Larratt (1:34:32.020)
If you wanna be a super heavyweight, everything.
Lex Fridman (1:34:36.100)
Just so we're watching a delicious looking omelet,
Lex Fridman (1:34:38.340)
so eggs, bacon, syrup, so you don't care, carbs.
Lex Fridman (1:34:42.180)
So in all the things you try, so I mostly eat meat now.
Lex Fridman (1:34:46.460)
And I landed on that, there's several things,
Lex Fridman (1:34:50.060)
obviously I'm not, but I do a lot of sport.
Lex Fridman (1:34:53.420)
And I was very surprised how my particular,
Lex Fridman (1:34:55.660)
very specific body could perform better with only meat.
Lex Fridman (1:35:00.620)
Why better?
Lex Fridman (1:35:01.500)
The sports I do, the mind matters.
Lex Fridman (1:35:03.300)
And so for some reason, my mind's just clear.
Lex Fridman (1:35:06.180)
And I don't think, because it feels unhealthy.
Devon Larratt (1:35:09.020)
It just makes me feel really good.
Lex Fridman (1:35:10.820)
I don't think I would recommend it to anybody else.
Lex Fridman (1:35:13.740)
So it's interesting that that journey of just exploring
Lex Fridman (1:35:19.500)
can take you to figure out something about your own self.
Devon Larratt (1:35:22.960)
One of the most interesting things that I heard about
Lex Fridman (1:35:25.620)
nutrition was, I heard there was a.
Devon Larratt (1:35:29.140)
Actually, Doritos, I forgot about that.
Lex Fridman (1:35:31.220)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm an idiot.
Devon Larratt (1:35:35.100)
Now, I'd say over the last couple of years,
Lex Fridman (1:35:38.100)
I've really gone into carbs a lot and high glycemic carbs.
Lex Fridman (1:35:42.060)
And just to, I feel like it's one of the best things
Lex Fridman (1:35:44.580)
you can do if you're working out really hard.
Devon Larratt (1:35:45.980)
Just add carbs, yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman (1:35:48.620)
But, oh, where was I?
Lex Fridman (1:35:55.180)
So you've added, syrup is so delicious it's distracting.
Lex Fridman (1:35:59.980)
No, so you've added the high glycemic carbs into the mix.
Lex Fridman (1:36:03.540)
So those help, but that's for mass building.
Lex Fridman (1:36:06.580)
Right, so there was a study that I heard about
Devon Larratt (1:36:10.140)
by somebody who was trying to identify heart attacks.
Lex Fridman (1:36:12.940)
They did this great big study.
Lex Fridman (1:36:14.640)
And at the end of it, I mean, didn't matter
Lex Fridman (1:36:17.100)
what the people ate, the most important thing
Devon Larratt (1:36:20.820)
was how they felt about the food that they were eating.
Lex Fridman (1:36:23.700)
Yeah, so if you believe in the food,
Devon Larratt (1:36:27.580)
if you believe that it's gonna do good things for you,
Lex Fridman (1:36:30.660)
if you allocate it the right way,
Devon Larratt (1:36:32.820)
it's gonna have a positive impact.
Lex Fridman (1:36:35.420)
And I try and do that no matter what it is.
Devon Larratt (1:36:37.400)
Like I have my foods that I think do certain things.
Lex Fridman (1:36:40.140)
And so, you know, for me, I know that,
Devon Larratt (1:36:44.980)
actually, I mean, I learned about corn fed pumps
Lex Fridman (1:36:48.300)
when I was overseas.
Devon Larratt (1:36:50.900)
I realized that I never used to eat crap, really didn't.
Lex Fridman (1:36:55.380)
I ate super clean all the time.
Lex Fridman (1:36:58.580)
And when I was faced with imminent death more,
Lex Fridman (1:37:05.040)
I would be like, okay, I'm going out tonight,
Devon Larratt (1:37:07.940)
let's have a couple ice cream bars.
Lex Fridman (1:37:10.640)
You know, like whatever.
Lex Fridman (1:37:12.100)
And what I realized is if I eat like an entire bag of chips
Lex Fridman (1:37:18.820)
or like, you know, a bunch of chocolate bars,
Lex Fridman (1:37:22.860)
and then I go and have a workout,
Lex Fridman (1:37:25.020)
my workout will be incredible.
Devon Larratt (1:37:27.460)
It'll be incredible.
Lex Fridman (1:37:30.300)
There's something about easily processed carbohydrates
Devon Larratt (1:37:35.220)
that will continue to quickly get into your blood
Lex Fridman (1:37:40.220)
as fast as you can burn it.
Lex Fridman (1:37:42.860)
And there's something about that
Lex Fridman (1:37:45.620)
that will give you incredible blood flow, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:37:51.420)
And also your mind plugging in, enjoying that.
Lex Fridman (1:37:54.060)
Right.
Lex Fridman (1:37:54.900)
And then believing it works,
Lex Fridman (1:37:56.380)
and that's how it makes it work better.
Devon Larratt (1:37:58.600)
Exactly.
Lex Fridman (1:37:59.440)
I mean, I feel that way.
Devon Larratt (1:38:01.160)
I think this is really not,
Lex Fridman (1:38:03.280)
this has been frustrating to me
Devon Larratt (1:38:04.700)
about the health culture in the United States
Lex Fridman (1:38:07.260)
in the studies that are done.
Devon Larratt (1:38:09.900)
You know, you look at like the importance of sleep,
Lex Fridman (1:38:12.140)
the importance of X diet, all those kinds of things.
Devon Larratt (1:38:16.060)
I wish incorporated into that would be
Lex Fridman (1:38:19.380)
your mental relationship with all of these things.
Lex Fridman (1:38:22.460)
So for example, people that tell me,
Lex Fridman (1:38:23.980)
well, your sleep schedule is insane.
Devon Larratt (1:38:26.500)
Yes, perhaps.
Lex Fridman (1:38:28.860)
But also, it's insane because I'm doing what I love
Lex Fridman (1:38:32.660)
and I don't see it as a problem.
Lex Fridman (1:38:34.340)
Right.
Lex Fridman (1:38:35.180)
And I think that's really important to understand.
Lex Fridman (1:38:38.740)
If you sleeping crazy hours
Devon Larratt (1:38:45.180)
is not affecting your stress
Lex Fridman (1:38:47.020)
and is actually making you happy
Devon Larratt (1:38:48.980)
or you're drawing some kind of source of happiness
Lex Fridman (1:38:51.940)
and pleasure and satisfaction,
Devon Larratt (1:38:53.100)
like being awake when others aren't.
Lex Fridman (1:38:54.900)
It's like the Mike Tyson thing or something,
Devon Larratt (1:38:57.560)
like training when you've convinced yourself
Lex Fridman (1:39:00.200)
everybody's sleeping and therefore
Devon Larratt (1:39:01.680)
you're somehow training much better.
Lex Fridman (1:39:04.140)
That's powerful even if you look statistically
Devon Larratt (1:39:07.780)
six hours may be worse than eight hours
Lex Fridman (1:39:10.120)
or four hours may be worse than six hours.
Lex Fridman (1:39:12.340)
So the mind is a powerful thing.
Lex Fridman (1:39:14.500)
Super powerful.
Lex Fridman (1:39:16.240)
But if you want to be a super heavyweight.
Lex Fridman (1:39:18.080)
Eat.
Devon Larratt (1:39:19.500)
You got to eat like stupid amounts all the time, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:39:23.360)
You have to test your digestive system.
Lex Fridman (1:39:25.360)
What's your favorite meal by the way?
Lex Fridman (1:39:26.580)
Just if you had to, you know, your last meal.
Devon Larratt (1:39:29.780)
I am, I do, oh geez, I like so much food, it's tough.
Lex Fridman (1:39:34.900)
But I'd say the food that I rely on a lot
Devon Larratt (1:39:37.740)
when I'm getting ready to compete is sushi.
Lex Fridman (1:39:41.020)
Just because it normally comes in
Devon Larratt (1:39:42.260)
an all you can eat format, you know.
Lex Fridman (1:39:45.580)
So I love to go and just binge all you can eat buffets.
Devon Larratt (1:39:50.720)
Sushi is just super convenient.
Lex Fridman (1:39:52.460)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:39:53.740)
If I was a sushi all you can eat buffet place
Lex Fridman (1:39:56.180)
I'd be terrified when I saw you.
Lex Fridman (1:39:58.960)
Have you had barbecue at Texas?
Lex Fridman (1:40:01.060)
Yeah, I love it, I love it, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:40:03.620)
So you, just a small tangent on this.
Lex Fridman (1:40:06.060)
You faced The Mountain for Bjornsson.
Devon Larratt (1:40:10.980)
Well first of all you arm wrestled him.
Lex Fridman (1:40:12.380)
It's interesting to ask, so this is The Mountain
Devon Larratt (1:40:15.340)
from the Game of Thrones, a strong man,
Lex Fridman (1:40:18.580)
one of the strongest people in the world,
Devon Larratt (1:40:19.980)
for a time the strongest person in the world.
Lex Fridman (1:40:22.020)
What was it like, I know sort of you guys
Lex Fridman (1:40:24.940)
maybe weren't going 1,000%, but what's it like?
Lex Fridman (1:40:28.500)
Well he probably wasn't going 1,000%.
Devon Larratt (1:40:30.860)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:40:31.940)
But like what, it's interesting to think
Lex Fridman (1:40:34.060)
what does that strength feel like?
Lex Fridman (1:40:36.840)
So it's a specialized strength in another sport.
Devon Larratt (1:40:41.140)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:40:41.980)
What did it feel like?
Devon Larratt (1:40:42.880)
What, how strong was he, what are some kind
Lex Fridman (1:40:46.920)
of deep insights you've drawn from that battle?
Devon Larratt (1:40:50.660)
I feel like if we were to go back 1,000 years
Lex Fridman (1:40:56.400)
and if you give him armor and a two handed sword
Devon Larratt (1:41:00.400)
he will just rip across the landscape.
Lex Fridman (1:41:04.220)
And no one will stop him.
Lex Fridman (1:41:06.520)
So this is the boxing match you came to,
Lex Fridman (1:41:08.120)
but there's also a video of them arm wrestling.
Devon Larratt (1:41:12.320)
Yeah, what a titan though, what a titan.
Lex Fridman (1:41:15.280)
A guy like that, tall, strong, fit, disciplined.
Devon Larratt (1:41:21.400)
I mean he is quite a warrior.
Lex Fridman (1:41:24.160)
419 pounds?
Devon Larratt (1:41:25.960)
Yeah, yeah, he's incredibly impressive.
Lex Fridman (1:41:29.820)
I really like Hap Thor and I like Eddie Hall too.
Lex Fridman (1:41:34.200)
And I was just so, I'm just so caught up with the drama.
Lex Fridman (1:41:38.560)
Okay, so Eddie Hall and Hap Thor Bjornsson,
Devon Larratt (1:41:42.880)
two of the strongest legendary strongmen that we have.
Lex Fridman (1:41:48.200)
And they were the coolest, they were the top
Devon Larratt (1:41:50.320)
when strongman was really super cool.
Lex Fridman (1:41:54.540)
I don't know all the details,
Lex Fridman (1:41:56.680)
but they legit hit each other.
Lex Fridman (1:41:58.440)
Like legit.
Lex Fridman (1:42:00.520)
So I think it kind of stems, I don't know,
Lex Fridman (1:42:03.200)
like I say, I'm not right there with them,
Lex Fridman (1:42:05.480)
but Eddie won the World's Strongest Man event
Lex Fridman (1:42:11.380)
or something one year and the thing is,
Devon Larratt (1:42:13.720)
one of those victories where Hap Thor
Lex Fridman (1:42:17.680)
was not accepting of his defeat.
Devon Larratt (1:42:20.080)
Okay, and there was a little bit of back and forth.
Lex Fridman (1:42:22.000)
And basically from what I understand,
Devon Larratt (1:42:23.120)
they were gonna fight the knight
Lex Fridman (1:42:25.060)
of the World's Strongest Man.
Lex Fridman (1:42:27.200)
And they kind of got pulled apart
Lex Fridman (1:42:29.160)
and this heat between them got translated
Devon Larratt (1:42:33.440)
into a potential boxing match.
Lex Fridman (1:42:35.640)
So it's very real.
Devon Larratt (1:42:37.120)
It's a very real fight.
Lex Fridman (1:42:38.240)
So you have the two strongest dudes on the planet
Devon Larratt (1:42:41.520)
are gonna fight each other.
Lex Fridman (1:42:43.440)
So I've been like, you know,
Devon Larratt (1:42:45.340)
because arm wrestling and strongman,
Lex Fridman (1:42:46.980)
it's kind of similar communities.
Lex Fridman (1:42:49.480)
Who do you got?
Lex Fridman (1:42:51.920)
If you were giving me financial advice
Devon Larratt (1:42:53.840)
in the middle of the fight.
Lex Fridman (1:42:55.320)
I am so bad, I always call it wrong.
Devon Larratt (1:42:57.760)
They're very different.
Lex Fridman (1:42:59.520)
I see Hap Thor as being, you know, more.
Lex Fridman (1:43:03.680)
Eddie Hall slimming down, is that what you mean as well?
Lex Fridman (1:43:06.320)
I see Hap Thor as a bit more regimented,
Lex Fridman (1:43:10.000)
but I see Eddie Hall as like way more barbaric
Lex Fridman (1:43:13.760)
and like, I think he's a little bit more athletic,
Lex Fridman (1:43:17.720)
but Hap Thor is bigger and, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:43:21.160)
they've chosen slightly different paths
Devon Larratt (1:43:22.880)
to prepare for the match.
Lex Fridman (1:43:24.280)
But what happened was like, they were about to fight
Lex Fridman (1:43:28.240)
and Eddie Hall blew his bicep.
Lex Fridman (1:43:31.080)
So me, I was getting ready for Levan in December.
Devon Larratt (1:43:34.280)
We were supposed to arm wrestle in December,
Lex Fridman (1:43:36.240)
but he's got his movie.
Lex Fridman (1:43:38.620)
And so I was like, okay, I can kind of get away
Lex Fridman (1:43:40.660)
from the sport just a little bit, broaden my base.
Devon Larratt (1:43:43.620)
That happened and I was like, ah, an opportunity.
Lex Fridman (1:43:47.120)
You stepped in.
Devon Larratt (1:43:48.000)
An opportunity to fight.
Lex Fridman (1:43:49.400)
I'm like, I'll do it, so.
Lex Fridman (1:43:50.880)
How much training, you trained a little bit,
Lex Fridman (1:43:54.080)
so can you tell about your own decision to do that?
Lex Fridman (1:43:56.740)
What was the training like?
Lex Fridman (1:43:57.680)
What was the experience like?
Devon Larratt (1:43:58.720)
Oh, it was so much fun.
Lex Fridman (1:44:00.000)
It was so much fun.
Lex Fridman (1:44:02.680)
So basically, I made a funny video
Lex Fridman (1:44:05.560)
and I sent it to the organizers of Core Sports
Devon Larratt (1:44:08.680)
that I would do it.
Lex Fridman (1:44:09.720)
I'm like, I'll do it.
Devon Larratt (1:44:10.560)
I'm sure they got a thousand people who wanted to do it.
Lex Fridman (1:44:13.840)
But I'm like, listen, I'm an old man.
Devon Larratt (1:44:16.920)
Like I'm gimped up like everywhere
Lex Fridman (1:44:18.960)
outside the arm wrestling lanes.
Devon Larratt (1:44:21.400)
I said, but I will 100%.
Lex Fridman (1:44:23.600)
Like if you let me fight them, I'll give it my all.
Lex Fridman (1:44:26.620)
And whatever, they didn't get back to me.
Lex Fridman (1:44:29.520)
They're like, yeah, whatever, okay.
Lex Fridman (1:44:30.600)
So then they call me on a Friday,
Lex Fridman (1:44:33.500)
like five weeks before the event,
Lex Fridman (1:44:37.000)
and they're like, hey, Devin, were you serious?
Lex Fridman (1:44:39.960)
And I'm like, oh, shit.
Lex Fridman (1:44:41.200)
And I'm like, yes, I was serious.
Lex Fridman (1:44:46.480)
Yeah, I'll do it.
Lex Fridman (1:44:47.560)
And they're like, okay, they're like,
Lex Fridman (1:44:51.160)
it's down to you and like two other people
Devon Larratt (1:44:54.400)
we'll get back to you in a day or two,
Lex Fridman (1:44:56.280)
but you would do it.
Lex Fridman (1:44:57.440)
And I'm like, okay.
Lex Fridman (1:44:58.280)
So they got back to me on Sunday, like,
Lex Fridman (1:45:01.200)
so right away I'm like skipping rope.
Lex Fridman (1:45:03.180)
And I'm like, and I'm so, I only arm wrestle legs.
Devon Larratt (1:45:06.560)
That's all I do.
Lex Fridman (1:45:07.640)
So what was your, you did some striking training.
Devon Larratt (1:45:10.560)
Yeah, so I went to this guy that he was awesome,
Lex Fridman (1:45:14.520)
Zach, Ben Bushida there, that was it from TriStar.
Lex Fridman (1:45:19.520)
Do you know for us the hobby and that's.
Lex Fridman (1:45:22.320)
And yes, people in the comments,
Devon Larratt (1:45:23.920)
I will interview him on this podcast and people can.
Lex Fridman (1:45:26.640)
He's brilliant, right?
Devon Larratt (1:45:28.280)
He's an incredible guy.
Lex Fridman (1:45:29.680)
So right away, like I had no idea
Devon Larratt (1:45:31.400)
about the fight community across Canada really.
Lex Fridman (1:45:33.840)
And I got like by the fifth message
Devon Larratt (1:45:37.240)
that said you must train with Feras.
Lex Fridman (1:45:40.320)
I was like, okay, called him up.
Devon Larratt (1:45:42.200)
He was incredible right away.
Lex Fridman (1:45:43.440)
He's like, yeah, you can come and we'll just work with you.
Lex Fridman (1:45:46.080)
So I got, I got the call, I called him on like Monday
Lex Fridman (1:45:50.440)
at two oclock by like seven oclock.
Devon Larratt (1:45:53.240)
I had my things packed and I went to Montreal
Lex Fridman (1:45:56.440)
and I spent four weeks in the fighter dorms.
Devon Larratt (1:46:00.120)
Just humbling yourself.
Lex Fridman (1:46:01.240)
Yeah, every day, just getting punched in the face,
Devon Larratt (1:46:05.000)
you know, over and over going for runs with all,
Lex Fridman (1:46:10.240)
like they're all like Olympians and pro fighters
Devon Larratt (1:46:12.080)
living in the dorms, super cool dudes.
Lex Fridman (1:46:13.920)
They were so good to me.
Devon Larratt (1:46:15.160)
Yeah, there's a good video of you and Feras just talking.
Lex Fridman (1:46:19.160)
Yeah, I don't remember which stage this was,
Lex Fridman (1:46:21.560)
but basically, but you were already beginning
Lex Fridman (1:46:24.560)
to get humbled.
Devon Larratt (1:46:25.400)
Oh man, I knew.
Lex Fridman (1:46:26.640)
I mean, I knew what I was getting into.
Devon Larratt (1:46:28.600)
Like I knew it was, I knew it was gonna be a losing battle,
Lex Fridman (1:46:31.960)
but I felt like the opportunity to fight Thor,
Lex Fridman (1:46:35.280)
like how cool is that?
Lex Fridman (1:46:37.080)
Like I had to say, I had to do it.
Devon Larratt (1:46:40.360)
I loved the process and I learned a lot from doing it.
Lex Fridman (1:46:46.560)
Like the dorms, I wanna do something like that
Devon Larratt (1:46:49.240)
with arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (1:46:50.080)
I think we're big enough now that we can have these
Devon Larratt (1:46:52.480)
kind of, you know, dorms, frat houses,
Lex Fridman (1:46:55.800)
whatever you wanna call it.
Lex Fridman (1:46:56.840)
What's the dorm like?
Lex Fridman (1:46:57.880)
So you're basically staying there, food's there.
Lex Fridman (1:47:00.680)
So you mentioned, what was the word you used?
Lex Fridman (1:47:03.720)
Administration.
Devon Larratt (1:47:04.560)
Yeah, exactly, that's it.
Lex Fridman (1:47:06.240)
So it removes all of that.
Devon Larratt (1:47:07.440)
Makes it so simple.
Lex Fridman (1:47:08.440)
You can just focus.
Devon Larratt (1:47:09.280)
You know, the gym is here, you live here.
Lex Fridman (1:47:12.040)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:47:12.880)
You know, that your life becomes simple.
Lex Fridman (1:47:15.600)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:47:16.800)
So there's a guy named Jimmy Pedro here in America.
Lex Fridman (1:47:18.960)
He's a famous coach, has a place up in Boston.
Devon Larratt (1:47:21.680)
He has kind of a dorm like that too.
Lex Fridman (1:47:23.240)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:47:24.080)
And that becomes essential when the community is small,
Lex Fridman (1:47:28.720)
but you're trying to do epic things like win an Olympic gold.
Devon Larratt (1:47:32.720)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:47:33.560)
So you have to really put the people together
Devon Larratt (1:47:35.920)
in these kind of minimalist conditions
Lex Fridman (1:47:37.760)
where they just focus on the training,
Devon Larratt (1:47:39.280)
focus, focus, focus.
Lex Fridman (1:47:40.480)
Yes.
Devon Larratt (1:47:42.240)
Yeah, it wasn't enough time.
Lex Fridman (1:47:43.840)
I mean, I trained for about three or four weeks,
Lex Fridman (1:47:47.760)
but I loved the journey and...
Lex Fridman (1:47:50.480)
Well, what are some of the fun things you enjoy?
Lex Fridman (1:47:52.040)
So you did mostly striking, did you?
Lex Fridman (1:47:54.320)
Yeah, I guess it was...
Devon Larratt (1:47:55.160)
Yeah, it was boxing.
Lex Fridman (1:47:56.000)
It was straight up boxing.
Devon Larratt (1:47:56.840)
Boxing, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:47:58.000)
What are some things that were transferable?
Lex Fridman (1:47:59.920)
What are some cool things you learned from that?
Lex Fridman (1:48:02.320)
So from the world of armwrestling,
Lex Fridman (1:48:03.760)
have you taken anything back?
Lex Fridman (1:48:05.240)
Like some training regimens, ideas about training,
Lex Fridman (1:48:09.000)
even movements?
Lex Fridman (1:48:12.840)
Because for us it's a unique mind as well for training.
Devon Larratt (1:48:17.400)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:48:18.400)
I don't know.
Devon Larratt (1:48:19.600)
I mean, I've gone very far down the path of armwrestling.
Lex Fridman (1:48:24.920)
Boxing and armwrestling are very different.
Devon Larratt (1:48:27.840)
They're very different sports.
Lex Fridman (1:48:30.080)
The physicality required is very different.
Devon Larratt (1:48:36.800)
The mentality, I mean, it's fighting.
Lex Fridman (1:48:39.000)
So it's another form of fighting, which is cool.
Devon Larratt (1:48:41.120)
The big things that I took back from it,
Lex Fridman (1:48:44.360)
the things that I loved about it was I had to run again.
Lex Fridman (1:48:49.600)
So really work on endurance.
Lex Fridman (1:48:51.160)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:48:52.240)
Yeah, I was going for runs with guys in the dorms
Lex Fridman (1:48:54.480)
and they would just destroy me.
Devon Larratt (1:48:57.920)
Just like it was so bad.
Lex Fridman (1:49:04.640)
How did you feel in the actual boxing
Lex Fridman (1:49:06.280)
in terms of endurance?
Lex Fridman (1:49:08.400)
Were you able to?
Devon Larratt (1:49:09.240)
No.
Lex Fridman (1:49:10.080)
No.
Devon Larratt (1:49:11.160)
It's just torture.
Lex Fridman (1:49:12.000)
It was terrible.
Lex Fridman (1:49:14.000)
And the thing is it was so crazy for me
Lex Fridman (1:49:16.320)
because I really was good once upon a time.
Devon Larratt (1:49:19.680)
I really was.
Lex Fridman (1:49:20.520)
Like physically, I had incredible full body endurance.
Lex Fridman (1:49:24.520)
But being so specialized, I realized how much I had slipped.
Lex Fridman (1:49:30.160)
And yeah, it was fun to try and regain it.
Devon Larratt (1:49:33.560)
I think it's affected my body composition.
Lex Fridman (1:49:36.200)
I think since that training, I've become much more lean.
Devon Larratt (1:49:39.200)
I think it was a very healthy thing for me to do.
Lex Fridman (1:49:42.480)
Like health wise, I always think that when you're far away
Devon Larratt (1:49:46.080)
from competition, it's really good to kind of spread out.
Lex Fridman (1:49:48.920)
Really good.
Lex Fridman (1:49:49.760)
So I think that in that way.
Lex Fridman (1:49:51.120)
Also for your mind.
Devon Larratt (1:49:52.120)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:49:52.960)
Yeah, just like, yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:49:56.880)
Yeah, it's something about clearing your,
Lex Fridman (1:50:00.720)
I think you've talked about this is like
Devon Larratt (1:50:03.640)
you're basically taking steps back
Lex Fridman (1:50:06.360)
before you take steps forward.
Devon Larratt (1:50:08.000)
I forget how you call it.
Lex Fridman (1:50:08.840)
Yeah, the wave.
Devon Larratt (1:50:09.760)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:50:10.600)
Yeah, under, you know, you have to go under.
Devon Larratt (1:50:13.200)
You got to.
Lex Fridman (1:50:14.640)
You know, if you want to go above the line,
Devon Larratt (1:50:16.280)
you have to spend some time beneath it.
Lex Fridman (1:50:18.560)
And yeah, I was definitely beneath the line
Devon Larratt (1:50:20.280)
for a long time.
Lex Fridman (1:50:21.120)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:50:22.560)
But Mountain, I mean, like the interesting thing was
Lex Fridman (1:50:26.840)
as incredible as he is, you know, like what a monster.
Lex Fridman (1:50:32.880)
And I think if you had had him training in boxing,
Lex Fridman (1:50:37.240)
you know, for a long time and like from his youth,
Devon Larratt (1:50:40.160)
I think you, you know, the guy could be world champion,
Lex Fridman (1:50:42.920)
but you know, to be so specialized and then to switch,
Devon Larratt (1:50:46.440)
you're at a disadvantage.
Lex Fridman (1:50:47.640)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:50:48.480)
And also like I know from just fighting guys in the gym
Lex Fridman (1:50:53.920)
in TriStar, some of those guys were way scarier, for real.
Devon Larratt (1:50:58.640)
Like as scary as Thor is, like there's guys
Lex Fridman (1:51:01.920)
in that TriStar gym that don't look like anything
Devon Larratt (1:51:05.760)
that would murder me much worse, much worse.
Lex Fridman (1:51:10.280)
Yeah, but also, you know, that's the difference
Devon Larratt (1:51:12.600)
between being in the gym and under the lights too.
Lex Fridman (1:51:15.040)
I mean, GSB is an example, George St. Pierre is an example,
Devon Larratt (1:51:18.320)
somebody that maybe doesn't look terrifying.
Lex Fridman (1:51:21.760)
He's at a TriStar.
Devon Larratt (1:51:22.600)
Yep, he trains at TriStar, but he's quite,
Lex Fridman (1:51:25.400)
he's super nice, super humble,
Lex Fridman (1:51:29.160)
but is terrifying when he's fighting.
Lex Fridman (1:51:31.240)
Right.
Devon Larratt (1:51:32.080)
He's dominating people.
Lex Fridman (1:51:33.560)
You mentioned death and your Canadian special forces
Lex Fridman (1:51:39.640)
and in general, thinking about mortality.
Lex Fridman (1:51:42.560)
Do you think about your death?
Lex Fridman (1:51:44.360)
Do you?
Lex Fridman (1:51:45.240)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:51:46.080)
Do you contemplate the end, that this thing,
Lex Fridman (1:51:49.000)
that this ride ends?
Devon Larratt (1:51:50.640)
All the time, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:51:52.000)
From, I've thought about death from a young age.
Lex Fridman (1:51:55.400)
Are you afraid of it?
Lex Fridman (1:51:56.800)
Yeah, I hate it.
Devon Larratt (1:51:58.040)
Yeah, I don't wanna die.
Lex Fridman (1:51:59.360)
Yeah, definitely don't wanna die.
Lex Fridman (1:52:02.560)
But there's times when I can rid myself of it, yeah.
Lex Fridman (1:52:06.120)
But for sure, I mean, I'm not happy that death is inevitable
Lex Fridman (1:52:11.120)
and I'm not happy that potentially it's inevitable
Lex Fridman (1:52:16.920)
for all of us, but it does, I like to fight against it.
Lex Fridman (1:52:25.400)
Does it, if you could be immortal, would you choose to?
Lex Fridman (1:52:28.960)
That's my only wish.
Devon Larratt (1:52:30.760)
Oh, see, but here's the thing.
Lex Fridman (1:52:32.240)
That's, but the point is to have that wish.
Devon Larratt (1:52:35.240)
It's like the all you can eat buffet at sushi.
Lex Fridman (1:52:40.240)
It's, that sushi's more delicious if you have a limit.
Lex Fridman (1:52:44.000)
Do you have a, oh.
Lex Fridman (1:52:44.960)
Well, I don't know.
Devon Larratt (1:52:47.240)
I mean, I don't think I get sick of stuff.
Lex Fridman (1:52:49.560)
I'm very simple.
Devon Larratt (1:52:50.880)
Yeah, I don't think I would get tired of it.
Lex Fridman (1:52:52.560)
I really don't.
Devon Larratt (1:52:54.000)
I mean, if someone would pose it to you,
Lex Fridman (1:52:56.200)
do you wanna live forever?
Lex Fridman (1:52:57.760)
You would choose no?
Lex Fridman (1:52:59.360)
Yeah, I would choose no.
Devon Larratt (1:53:00.440)
Choose no.
Lex Fridman (1:53:01.280)
Well, my answer's probably yes.
Devon Larratt (1:53:04.480)
Like, no, I would, it's more like the snooze button.
Lex Fridman (1:53:08.980)
Do you wanna, do you, do you want?
Devon Larratt (1:53:11.700)
Well, you could go to sleep.
Lex Fridman (1:53:13.820)
But it's very difficult in the moment to go to sleep,
Lex Fridman (1:53:16.060)
but if I'm allowed to live forever,
Lex Fridman (1:53:21.180)
I'm going to delay all the crazy,
Devon Larratt (1:53:26.460)
like all the ambitious goals, all the,
Lex Fridman (1:53:30.020)
because, oh, there's always time.
Devon Larratt (1:53:31.540)
That's fine, but there is tomorrow, then.
Lex Fridman (1:53:33.380)
But there is tomorrow, but see,
Devon Larratt (1:53:34.620)
I think that takes away from the richness of,
Lex Fridman (1:53:37.780)
like, the richness of the lived experience
Devon Larratt (1:53:41.420)
of just each moment.
Lex Fridman (1:53:42.740)
I think the richness of each moment
Devon Larratt (1:53:45.100)
comes from saying, like, I could die tonight.
Lex Fridman (1:53:48.420)
Like, that, it tastes delicious because you're gonna die.
Devon Larratt (1:53:51.900)
I'm afraid if you're not,
Lex Fridman (1:53:54.540)
I'm afraid all of that goes away,
Devon Larratt (1:53:55.860)
all of that magic goes away if you can live forever.
Lex Fridman (1:53:58.900)
I don't know.
Devon Larratt (1:53:59.740)
I don't know.
Lex Fridman (1:54:01.000)
But I'll tell you, every time I have a near death experience
Devon Larratt (1:54:05.180)
or think I'm gonna die,
Lex Fridman (1:54:06.260)
I definitely live better afterwards, yeah.
Devon Larratt (1:54:09.140)
Like, it's always been that way.
Lex Fridman (1:54:11.540)
But yeah, no.
Devon Larratt (1:54:14.280)
That's why the Stoics, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:54:15.840)
they really preach contemplating your mortality often.
Devon Larratt (1:54:19.220)
It kind of reminds you.
Lex Fridman (1:54:21.600)
This whole thing could just end any moment
Lex Fridman (1:54:23.620)
and it makes you really appreciate.
Lex Fridman (1:54:25.900)
Yeah, I don't know.
Devon Larratt (1:54:27.860)
I don't know.
Lex Fridman (1:54:29.020)
Certainly improving the quality of life is important.
Lex Fridman (1:54:34.020)
But part of me thinks that immortality
Lex Fridman (1:54:39.340)
is not as fun as we would like to imagine.
Lex Fridman (1:54:43.540)
Do you think that maybe you're,
Lex Fridman (1:54:46.820)
in what you're building potentially is immortal?
Devon Larratt (1:54:50.140)
Well, that's what I definitely think about with robots.
Lex Fridman (1:54:56.820)
If they were to have a humanlike experience
Lex Fridman (1:55:00.060)
and be able to interact with humans
Lex Fridman (1:55:01.700)
in a deep, meaningful way,
Devon Larratt (1:55:03.460)
I think they too have to be mortal
Lex Fridman (1:55:05.580)
in some fundamental way that means mortal.
Devon Larratt (1:55:08.400)
Like, their ride has to end as well.
Lex Fridman (1:55:10.960)
Because they won't be able to interact with humans deeply
Devon Larratt (1:55:15.280)
unless that's the case.
Lex Fridman (1:55:18.340)
Like, to have fear, to have love,
Devon Larratt (1:55:25.180)
the ability to suffer, the ability to miss somebody,
Lex Fridman (1:55:29.740)
I think scarcity is important.
Devon Larratt (1:55:32.820)
You have to be able to truly lose somebody.
Lex Fridman (1:55:36.660)
You have to be, to fear things,
Devon Larratt (1:55:38.460)
you have to truly have the risk of destroying yourself.
Lex Fridman (1:55:43.180)
And to have a sense of what it means to be a self,
Devon Larratt (1:55:47.740)
you have to be able to lose it.
Lex Fridman (1:55:51.100)
So if you're immortal, you're just going to be,
Devon Larratt (1:55:53.940)
I feel like you're going to be like a toaster,
Lex Fridman (1:55:58.020)
an intelligent toaster that just serves.
Devon Larratt (1:56:00.740)
There's such a negative perspective on it.
Lex Fridman (1:56:03.140)
And then mortality?
Devon Larratt (1:56:04.060)
Yeah, just think, well, now you just,
Lex Fridman (1:56:05.980)
you can get all those things done that you want to do.
Devon Larratt (1:56:08.480)
I hope you're right, I hope you're right.
Lex Fridman (1:56:10.720)
Yeah, I mean, potentially, you could invest even harder
Devon Larratt (1:56:14.260)
because you're like, wow, I'm actually going to be able
Lex Fridman (1:56:16.060)
to get all this stuff done.
Devon Larratt (1:56:17.500)
I think about this a lot, I hope you're right,
Lex Fridman (1:56:20.600)
but I fear that the drive to create,
Devon Larratt (1:56:25.220)
I can even do more, all of that dissipates,
Lex Fridman (1:56:28.140)
disappears if you have all the time in the world.
Devon Larratt (1:56:31.380)
I just know how lazy I am.
Lex Fridman (1:56:33.500)
And if I have all the time in the world,
Devon Larratt (1:56:35.260)
I'm just going to sit there and just watch
Lex Fridman (1:56:39.160)
the stupidest YouTube videos for the rest of all eternity.
Devon Larratt (1:56:44.620)
Now, eternity's a long time.
Lex Fridman (1:56:46.340)
Eat Doritos and Cheetos and just get fatter and fatter.
Devon Larratt (1:56:50.420)
I can get in shape later, there's always time.
Lex Fridman (1:56:53.660)
That's like a long period of contemplation.
Devon Larratt (1:56:56.140)
Yeah, so for the first 1,000 years,
Lex Fridman (1:56:59.540)
it'll be the Dorito period of the Lex life.
Devon Larratt (1:57:02.580)
Yeah, you could be like Jabba the Hutt for 1,000 years.
Lex Fridman (1:57:06.620)
You mentioned aliens, very important topic.
Lex Fridman (1:57:09.140)
Do you actually think about this
Lex Fridman (1:57:11.300)
has been an increased interest,
Lex Fridman (1:57:13.900)
and there's been increased UFO sightings and encounters,
Lex Fridman (1:57:18.380)
all that kind of stuff, the US government at least
Devon Larratt (1:57:20.840)
releasing data, releasing videos of pilots,
Lex Fridman (1:57:26.980)
pilot observations, and from airplanes of UFOs.
Lex Fridman (1:57:30.220)
Do you think about this kind of stuff?
Lex Fridman (1:57:31.900)
Because you mentioned in the following context,
Devon Larratt (1:57:33.940)
you mentioned like us humans will get our shit together
Lex Fridman (1:57:37.660)
when the aliens eventually come.
Lex Fridman (1:57:42.140)
What do you make of all the sightings?
Lex Fridman (1:57:43.860)
Is that something you think about?
Devon Larratt (1:57:45.780)
I thought about it a lot when I was younger,
Lex Fridman (1:57:47.940)
and I've just, I made my conclusions,
Lex Fridman (1:57:50.820)
and yeah, I don't think that there's a possibility
Lex Fridman (1:57:54.180)
that there aren't aliens.
Devon Larratt (1:57:55.420)
I would think that it would be impossible
Lex Fridman (1:57:57.180)
for there not to be aliens.
Devon Larratt (1:58:01.620)
I feel like this is pretty good real estate,
Lex Fridman (1:58:03.900)
so you'd probably want it,
Lex Fridman (1:58:07.220)
but we already might be, well, I don't even think might.
Lex Fridman (1:58:10.180)
I mean, it's probably quite likely
Devon Larratt (1:58:11.700)
that we are to some degree aliens.
Lex Fridman (1:58:13.660)
I mean, all life is probably to some degree alien.
Devon Larratt (1:58:16.900)
I like the real estate, so the resources,
Lex Fridman (1:58:18.940)
but we're also kind of interesting.
Devon Larratt (1:58:21.340)
Whatever this ant colony of living organisms
Lex Fridman (1:58:24.220)
that we've created, it's kind of interesting to study.
Devon Larratt (1:58:27.180)
I tend to believe that the alien civilizations
Lex Fridman (1:58:29.580)
that are going to reach us or have reached us
Devon Larratt (1:58:33.700)
are far more intelligent,
Lex Fridman (1:58:36.440)
just orders of magnitude more intelligent than us,
Lex Fridman (1:58:39.220)
and so it's going to be very difficult both ways, actually,
Lex Fridman (1:58:41.940)
for us to understand them and for them
Devon Larratt (1:58:44.720)
to dumb themselves down enough to understand us.
Lex Fridman (1:58:47.540)
Yeah, probably.
Lex Fridman (1:58:48.380)
So they might even just miss our existence altogether
Lex Fridman (1:58:52.980)
just because I tend to believe,
Devon Larratt (1:58:56.140)
I don't know what you think,
Lex Fridman (1:58:57.060)
that we're not that special
Devon Larratt (1:58:59.320)
in terms of all the life forms in the universe.
Lex Fridman (1:59:02.820)
There's a lot of cool stuff out there.
Devon Larratt (1:59:04.980)
Has to be, has to be.
Lex Fridman (1:59:06.900)
But to us, we're special.
Lex Fridman (1:59:08.500)
Yeah, well, that's all that matters, right?
Lex Fridman (1:59:11.380)
Even the human species is the most special to us humans.
Devon Larratt (1:59:14.700)
There could be much more special species here on Earth
Lex Fridman (1:59:18.380)
they were just totally oblivious to,
Devon Larratt (1:59:20.180)
like trees on a scale of thousands of years.
Lex Fridman (1:59:23.140)
Maybe they're onto something.
Devon Larratt (1:59:26.660)
Lex, you know,
Lex Fridman (1:59:30.060)
I think that so much of what makes a person special
Devon Larratt (1:59:34.900)
is what they pass on, your kids.
Lex Fridman (1:59:37.380)
But I think that you are quite special
Devon Larratt (1:59:39.780)
because you're part of this thing
Lex Fridman (1:59:42.440)
that's potentially giving birth to the next thing.
Devon Larratt (1:59:47.740)
The robots.
Lex Fridman (1:59:48.580)
The robots.
Devon Larratt (1:59:49.420)
I should say, the funny thing is,
Lex Fridman (1:59:50.960)
while talking to Devon during this podcast,
Devon Larratt (1:59:53.860)
I had a doorbell ring, had to go downstairs,
Lex Fridman (1:59:57.580)
and there was a big box,
Lex Fridman (20:00.420)
How much of it is just the physical ability to do
Lex Fridman (20:03.260)
for your muscles to have the endurance to hold off?
Devon Larratt (20:08.060)
I like to make the sport bigger.
Lex Fridman (20:11.320)
And a lot of things that most arm wrestlers
Devon Larratt (20:15.600)
believe the sport is,
Lex Fridman (20:17.680)
I always try and push those boundaries.
Lex Fridman (20:20.760)
So there is definitely a mental aspect to it
Lex Fridman (20:25.200)
when you're faced with something
Devon Larratt (20:26.440)
that you've never seen before.
Lex Fridman (20:28.840)
That's when things like experience comes in.
Devon Larratt (20:33.080)
He can become surprised.
Lex Fridman (20:35.120)
Where what's a surprise for him is routine for me.
Lex Fridman (20:39.320)
So my adjustments will be more precise, more accurate.
Lex Fridman (20:45.200)
Yeah, that's how I get in.
Devon Larratt (20:46.720)
That's how I get in.
Lex Fridman (20:47.920)
Yeah, I play a dirty game.
Lex Fridman (20:49.720)
You know?
Lex Fridman (20:51.360)
So some of it, how important is confidence
Lex Fridman (20:54.360)
in the progression of the match?
Lex Fridman (20:58.800)
Is there ups and downs of confidence?
Devon Larratt (21:02.200)
Like, holy shit, I actually have a chance to win this.
Lex Fridman (21:05.320)
Holy shit, I'm winning this, you're done.
Devon Larratt (21:07.400)
There's some of my favorite moments.
Lex Fridman (21:09.560)
I don't know if those are fake or not
Devon Larratt (21:11.200)
in terms of your expressions,
Lex Fridman (21:12.800)
if it's fake until you make it.
Lex Fridman (21:14.680)
But whenever you shake your head or whatever,
Lex Fridman (21:17.560)
you make it apparent that you believe the match is finished.
Lex Fridman (21:22.880)
And I wonder if that gets in the head of the other person.
Lex Fridman (21:25.920)
When you start to actually,
Lex Fridman (21:28.840)
so I'm sure you're doing things,
Lex Fridman (21:31.240)
like precise, detailed things with your hands
Devon Larratt (21:34.600)
to also indicate that you believe they're fake.
Lex Fridman (21:37.360)
They're finished.
Lex Fridman (21:38.400)
But you're facially just.
Lex Fridman (21:40.080)
See this? Yeah.
Devon Larratt (21:43.640)
Quit.
Lex Fridman (21:45.440)
Oh, that's right, because it's facing the other.
Lex Fridman (21:49.480)
So that's ultimately what the battle is about.
Lex Fridman (21:51.200)
It's like, you're done.
Devon Larratt (21:54.000)
You might as well give up.
Lex Fridman (21:55.880)
Commitment is so important in anything that you do, right?
Devon Larratt (21:59.920)
Like, I always kind of try and bring things
Lex Fridman (22:04.760)
to a level of commitment that's uncommon.
Devon Larratt (22:08.480)
I think that that's a lot of reasons why I do well,
Lex Fridman (22:11.920)
is because I just get so committed in the whole process.
Lex Fridman (22:15.760)
And by the time that I actually show up to fight,
Lex Fridman (22:19.520)
I sometimes just wish that they would kill me.
Devon Larratt (22:22.320)
I wish that they would,
Lex Fridman (22:24.040)
because that's how far I want to go.
Lex Fridman (22:27.160)
People talk about like, how committed are you to the match?
Lex Fridman (22:30.680)
If you're committed to the match and you lose,
Devon Larratt (22:32.440)
you should be hurt.
Lex Fridman (22:34.760)
I'm often unhappy when I lose a match
Lex Fridman (22:39.320)
and I don't have an injury.
Lex Fridman (22:40.440)
I'm like, damn, what the fuck?
Devon Larratt (22:42.120)
I shoulda.
Lex Fridman (22:43.680)
I feel like I didn't commit, you know?
Devon Larratt (22:47.560)
I don't know if you know Dan Gable as the wrestler.
Lex Fridman (22:50.320)
Oh yeah, he was on.
Devon Larratt (22:51.720)
He was on the podcast? Yeah.
Lex Fridman (22:52.880)
Yeah, yeah.
Devon Larratt (22:55.120)
He talked about his whole career.
Lex Fridman (22:56.960)
He dreamed of working so hard that he can't get off the mat.
Devon Larratt (23:01.960)
By himself.
Lex Fridman (23:03.560)
And he's disappointed ultimately at the end of his career
Devon Larratt (23:08.120)
because he was always able to get off the mat
Lex Fridman (23:10.120)
on his own accord.
Lex Fridman (23:11.520)
So he wants to, yeah, leave it all on the mat
Lex Fridman (23:15.160)
just from exhaustion.
Lex Fridman (23:16.960)
So that's what commitment looks like.
Lex Fridman (23:19.320)
What is this process, what is this climb
Lex Fridman (23:21.440)
for probably the toughest match of your career?
Lex Fridman (23:26.480)
I would say the most epic match in arm wrestling history.
Devon Larratt (23:31.480)
I mean, it's really building up.
Lex Fridman (23:33.680)
You are, as you said, North America.
Devon Larratt (23:36.440)
That's, I mean, I think by accounts of many
Lex Fridman (23:41.760)
you're one of the greatest arm wrestlers ever.
Devon Larratt (23:43.720)
He is one of the scariest arm wrestlers ever.
Lex Fridman (23:47.240)
And so this match, by the way, where's it happening?
Devon Larratt (23:50.160)
It'll be in Dubai. In Dubai.
Lex Fridman (23:51.880)
June, so what does the climb look like?
Devon Larratt (23:55.440)
The climb for me, what I have to change in my life always,
Lex Fridman (24:01.560)
people talk about being a professional.
Devon Larratt (24:04.000)
I've always loved the sport.
Lex Fridman (24:06.000)
I've loved it like crazy, but to me,
Devon Larratt (24:10.440)
the path is about simplicity and removal of distractions.
Lex Fridman (24:18.640)
I do better and better the more I get rid of everything,
Devon Larratt (24:23.640)
nothing else, so that my life is just the goal,
Lex Fridman (24:30.320)
just the target and everything else is off the table.
Lex Fridman (24:32.880)
And that's where I need to get to, where there's nothing.
Lex Fridman (24:38.160)
There's nothing between me and him.
Lex Fridman (24:39.640)
And every single day you're putting in the volume.
Lex Fridman (24:42.320)
Every day, all day.
Devon Larratt (24:44.320)
Now you said you worked out.
Lex Fridman (24:45.360)
So yesterday you did hundreds of arm wrestling matches.
Lex Fridman (24:49.080)
And then today you said in the morning you still worked out.
Lex Fridman (24:51.280)
So what was that workout?
Lex Fridman (24:52.400)
So you're mixing up stuff where you're doing weights also?
Lex Fridman (24:56.800)
This morning, I try to really focus
Devon Larratt (25:00.360)
on what's administratively easy.
Lex Fridman (25:03.240)
That's a big part of me, everything I do.
Lex Fridman (25:06.240)
So I just travel with bands.
Lex Fridman (25:08.680)
Yeah, I got bands with me and it's rehabilitative in nature.
Lex Fridman (25:13.080)
So I'm really focusing on blood flow,
Lex Fridman (25:17.080)
feeling good, doing proper movements,
Lex Fridman (25:20.440)
but yeah, it's just a band workout in the hotel room.
Lex Fridman (25:23.040)
What does a band workout look like?
Lex Fridman (25:24.440)
So are you doing the arm wrestling movement?
Lex Fridman (25:26.640)
Oh, you see that?
Lex Fridman (25:27.680)
See what you did there?
Lex Fridman (25:28.680)
What's that?
Devon Larratt (25:30.560)
Yeah, it's you.
Lex Fridman (25:31.520)
You want to bring him in.
Devon Larratt (25:32.520)
Yeah, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up into your center.
Lex Fridman (25:38.160)
You think what can you control out here?
Devon Larratt (25:40.800)
No, you bring everything close.
Lex Fridman (25:43.200)
That's it.
Devon Larratt (25:43.720)
Don't worry about pinning.
Lex Fridman (25:44.760)
Pinning happens once it's close to you.
Devon Larratt (25:46.880)
Pinning is, people always think about pinning.
Lex Fridman (25:50.120)
Don't think about pinning.
Lex Fridman (25:51.420)
How much of the body is a part of this, too?
Lex Fridman (25:53.240)
Like the core, the torso,
Devon Larratt (25:56.800)
because it feels like there's that almost like
Lex Fridman (25:59.200)
Mike Tyson punch power, right?
Devon Larratt (26:01.400)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (26:02.240)
Does it come from the hips, too, and the legs?
Devon Larratt (26:06.320)
It's definitely the whole body.
Lex Fridman (26:08.840)
It's definitely the whole body.
Devon Larratt (26:10.300)
Like everything is working.
Lex Fridman (26:12.720)
You're connected to the table at times,
Devon Larratt (26:14.740)
as far as your base.
Lex Fridman (26:15.580)
Sometimes your base is your feet,
Lex Fridman (26:17.540)
but a lot of times you can base off the table.
Lex Fridman (26:20.480)
So you can base off your hips, but I'll tell you,
Devon Larratt (26:24.040)
no arm wrestler cares about doing squats.
Lex Fridman (26:27.360)
No arm wrestler is doing planks.
Lex Fridman (26:29.360)
Okay?
Lex Fridman (26:30.200)
It's all about the forearm and the actions of the hand.
Devon Larratt (26:34.040)
That's always the limiting factor.
Lex Fridman (26:36.240)
You look at a guy like Oleg Zakh.
Lex Fridman (26:38.360)
Okay, do you know this guy?
Lex Fridman (26:39.740)
Oleg Zakh.
Devon Larratt (26:40.580)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (26:41.400)
Marvelous.
Devon Larratt (26:42.240)
He's a total hell boy.
Lex Fridman (26:43.440)
He's my inspiration to what I call pumpkin training.
Devon Larratt (26:47.360)
But.
Lex Fridman (26:48.200)
What's pumpkin training?
Devon Larratt (26:50.520)
Probably we'll get into that,
Lex Fridman (26:51.700)
but I only train my right arm.
Devon Larratt (26:53.680)
That's it.
Lex Fridman (26:54.680)
Yeah, with homework.
Lex Fridman (26:56.080)
But back to full body, it is full body.
Lex Fridman (27:00.880)
My good friend Matt Mask, when he arm wrestled me,
Devon Larratt (27:04.000)
he actually blew his internal abductor in his leg.
Lex Fridman (27:09.080)
So yeah, people walk away from tournament.
Devon Larratt (27:11.120)
Their calves can be sore sometimes.
Lex Fridman (27:13.480)
You know, it happens.
Lex Fridman (27:14.760)
But no, oh, there he is right there.
Lex Fridman (27:16.880)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (27:17.720)
Oleg, he is a real life hell boy.
Lex Fridman (27:20.880)
He's like 170 pounds there.
Devon Larratt (27:23.440)
Look at his arm.
Lex Fridman (27:24.280)
Look at his arm.
Devon Larratt (27:25.520)
Crazy.
Lex Fridman (27:26.660)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (27:28.040)
Yeah, he's totally crazy.
Lex Fridman (27:29.580)
That's you doing left right there.
Lex Fridman (27:30.960)
So by the way, Levan, you're going right.
Lex Fridman (27:33.600)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (27:34.660)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (27:36.160)
So can you say more about the mental side?
Lex Fridman (27:39.540)
Are you visualizing what it takes to beat him?
Lex Fridman (27:42.240)
Are you trying to get in his head?
Devon Larratt (27:44.240)
All of these things.
Lex Fridman (27:45.840)
So do you think it's possible to get in his head?
Devon Larratt (27:50.720)
There's definitely strategies that you can do
Lex Fridman (27:52.780)
depending on who it is you're facing.
Devon Larratt (27:55.440)
It's very good to know who it is you're fighting
Lex Fridman (27:58.040)
and choose the correct strategy mentally.
Lex Fridman (28:02.360)
But I always follow a process
Lex Fridman (28:06.480)
when it comes to my mental preparation.
Devon Larratt (28:09.120)
When I'm far away from an event,
Lex Fridman (28:11.680)
I just always build up my opponent,
Devon Larratt (28:15.440)
build them, I build them, I respect them.
Lex Fridman (28:18.240)
To a point where I almost start to fear them
Lex Fridman (28:21.520)
and start to believe that they'll beat me.
Lex Fridman (28:23.520)
And this is a very vital part of my preparation.
Lex Fridman (28:27.160)
And that's where I am right now with Levan.
Lex Fridman (28:29.520)
I just build them up into this thing that scares me.
Lex Fridman (28:33.520)
And it forces me to be responsible,
Lex Fridman (28:37.040)
because I don't want to lose, I want to win.
Lex Fridman (28:40.980)
So the greater my opponent,
Lex Fridman (28:42.920)
the greater I can build their worth in my mind,
Devon Larratt (28:46.060)
the more motivation it gives me.
Lex Fridman (28:49.320)
Then there comes a point when it changes.
Lex Fridman (28:53.720)
And then I start to degrade them.
Lex Fridman (28:56.860)
And yeah, that's when it normally starts to get fun.
Lex Fridman (29:01.000)
And normally by the time I face them,
Lex Fridman (29:05.760)
I just try and completely dominate
Devon Larratt (29:07.880)
from every interaction from start to finish.
Lex Fridman (29:10.720)
So, yeah.
Devon Larratt (29:13.700)
When in the actual moment of the match,
Lex Fridman (29:17.180)
like in the moments leading up to it,
Lex Fridman (29:19.620)
what's the feeling?
Lex Fridman (29:21.060)
Is it fear, is it confidence, anxiety?
Lex Fridman (29:26.540)
What's going through your mind?
Lex Fridman (29:29.420)
I love to fight, I love it, I always have.
Devon Larratt (29:33.620)
There's every day where you have the distractions of life,
Lex Fridman (29:42.460)
and then there's really living in the moment.
Devon Larratt (29:45.020)
It's whatever you love to do,
Lex Fridman (29:46.500)
and that's when you can really be free.
Devon Larratt (29:49.860)
I'm free when I'm fighting.
Lex Fridman (29:52.100)
So you put me in a good fight, and I just love it.
Lex Fridman (29:56.020)
And I don't think about the past,
Lex Fridman (29:57.260)
I don't think about the future,
Devon Larratt (29:58.380)
I just think about killing that dude in front of me,
Lex Fridman (2:00:01.540)
medicine box with a new legged robot.
Lex Fridman (2:00:04.420)
So the hilarity of you saying that is,
Lex Fridman (2:00:07.580)
because that robot is actually going to likely be
Devon Larratt (2:00:11.100)
the main robot that I show to the world in the coming months
Lex Fridman (2:00:15.900)
because that has the,
Devon Larratt (2:00:17.580)
that's the highest compute level in that robot.
Lex Fridman (2:00:19.980)
So I've been playing a lot with legged robots,
Devon Larratt (2:00:22.700)
the four legs, so like a dog.
Lex Fridman (2:00:28.980)
I like all the robots,
Lex Fridman (2:00:30.380)
but there's something about when a robot has legs,
Lex Fridman (2:00:33.540)
it's able to communicate,
Devon Larratt (2:00:36.020)
it's able to connect with humans in some kind of deep way,
Lex Fridman (2:00:38.320)
in the way a dog can, just show affection.
Devon Larratt (2:00:40.900)
Something about like, step, step, step, step,
Lex Fridman (2:00:43.740)
and then the robot realizes you're here,
Lex Fridman (2:00:46.220)
and then it steps and then notices you
Lex Fridman (2:00:48.500)
in the way the dog does and raises its head.
Devon Larratt (2:00:52.860)
It makes me feel noticed and heard
Lex Fridman (2:00:56.500)
in the same way I do when a dog notices me.
Devon Larratt (2:00:59.740)
That excitement, that stupid excitement of like,
Lex Fridman (2:01:02.500)
yes, fellow living organism.
Lex Fridman (2:01:05.700)
And what excites me about legged robots
Lex Fridman (2:01:09.340)
is that holy shit, it's possible to engineer this.
Devon Larratt (2:01:13.260)
It's possible to create that feeling,
Lex Fridman (2:01:15.460)
and I wonder where that can go.
Devon Larratt (2:01:17.220)
There's a lot of negative possible trajectories,
Lex Fridman (2:01:20.280)
but I have a sense that there's positive ones too.
Devon Larratt (2:01:23.060)
Adding more love to the world.
Lex Fridman (2:01:23.900)
You think that they'll take us with them?
Devon Larratt (2:01:27.420)
Yeah, I think so because I,
Lex Fridman (2:01:29.940)
so there's this fear of robots
Devon Larratt (2:01:33.140)
that they become super intelligent
Lex Fridman (2:01:34.880)
and run away from us humans,
Lex Fridman (2:01:36.200)
and basically become so intelligent
Lex Fridman (2:01:38.860)
and then they almost just not giving a damn will destroy us.
Lex Fridman (2:01:44.540)
But I think in order for robots to become intelligent,
Lex Fridman (2:01:48.180)
they have to integrate themselves with society.
Lex Fridman (2:01:51.300)
So they, by the very nature of how they become intelligent,
Lex Fridman (2:01:57.160)
have to bring us along.
Lex Fridman (2:01:58.940)
So it's not that there'll be this separate thing.
Lex Fridman (2:02:02.620)
They have to, like, we'll have robots in the home.
Devon Larratt (2:02:05.900)
Well, they'll be interacting with us.
Lex Fridman (2:02:07.420)
You have human kids, and you have a bunch of robots.
Devon Larratt (2:02:10.700)
You have robot friends.
Lex Fridman (2:02:11.740)
You have human friends,
Lex Fridman (2:02:12.900)
and the robots make your human to human relationships
Lex Fridman (2:02:16.340)
much more meaningful and richer.
Devon Larratt (2:02:18.160)
They bring more love to the world, but it's integrated.
Lex Fridman (2:02:20.980)
It's not like they'll be developing smarter and smarter
Devon Larratt (2:02:26.300)
as, like, sentient beings by themselves.
Lex Fridman (2:02:30.420)
I think that's very difficult to do.
Devon Larratt (2:02:32.380)
You have to be doing that together with humans,
Lex Fridman (2:02:34.500)
and so we'll come for the ride.
Devon Larratt (2:02:35.860)
There's technical things, like,
Lex Fridman (2:02:37.940)
we might merge, like, cyborgs more and more.
Lex Fridman (2:02:41.500)
Well, we already saw our cyborgs, right?
Lex Fridman (2:02:43.380)
With the phones and so on, but more and more.
Lex Fridman (2:02:46.420)
So with Elon and Neuralink, deeper integration of robots
Lex Fridman (2:02:50.860)
and AI into, like, increasing the bandwidth
Devon Larratt (2:02:55.380)
at which they can communicate.
Lex Fridman (2:02:56.920)
So if we do implants in the brain,
Devon Larratt (2:03:00.820)
I think, again, a lot of people are really nervous
Lex Fridman (2:03:04.580)
about this, as am I, but I think there's a lot
Devon Larratt (2:03:07.620)
of trajectories that are positive there.
Lex Fridman (2:03:10.780)
That, to me, is exciting, and also,
Devon Larratt (2:03:12.500)
I just don't think it's possible to stop this development,
Lex Fridman (2:03:15.320)
so we should steer it.
Devon Larratt (2:03:18.060)
Yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:03:20.020)
For good.
Devon Larratt (2:03:20.860)
Did you, I mean, you must have watched
Lex Fridman (2:03:22.460)
the movie Terminator, right?
Devon Larratt (2:03:23.660)
Yeah, of course, I love Terminator.
Lex Fridman (2:03:25.240)
Yeah, it's probably my favorite movie of all time.
Lex Fridman (2:03:28.740)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the big fear, right?
Lex Fridman (2:03:35.260)
Yeah, what's the conclusion with Terminator?
Lex Fridman (2:03:37.060)
Isn't ultimately humanity wins?
Lex Fridman (2:03:39.280)
I think they're at, like, Terminator 8 now.
Devon Larratt (2:03:41.200)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:03:42.040)
You know, I don't know.
Devon Larratt (2:03:44.580)
Yeah, and it's interesting, actually,
Lex Fridman (2:03:48.280)
I was gonna bring this up as you were talking about it,
Lex Fridman (2:03:50.200)
but China and the United States actually don't know
Lex Fridman (2:03:54.460)
where Canada is on this, but they both have agreed
Devon Larratt (2:03:59.220)
that they're not going to put limits
Lex Fridman (2:04:00.820)
on autonomous weapon system development.
Devon Larratt (2:04:04.540)
They're not going to.
Lex Fridman (2:04:05.380)
They're not going to.
Devon Larratt (2:04:06.620)
So, because China said we're not going to,
Lex Fridman (2:04:08.500)
and now US officially announced that we're not, we can't.
Lex Fridman (2:04:12.820)
Well, you can't, it's like, you never could, right?
Lex Fridman (2:04:16.940)
As soon as it exists and it's better, people will use it.
Devon Larratt (2:04:20.780)
Well, but you, there's been a global ban on bioweapons.
Lex Fridman (2:04:26.540)
So, you were able to come to an agreement there
Devon Larratt (2:04:28.820)
that we're not going to use biological weapons in war.
Lex Fridman (2:04:32.340)
So, it was, a lot of people are really upset
Devon Larratt (2:04:34.980)
that in the case of AI driven weapons,
Lex Fridman (2:04:39.540)
the world said, nope, that's okay.
Lex Fridman (2:04:42.220)
And so, now you have this potential
Lex Fridman (2:04:45.140)
for greater and greater automation in drones,
Devon Larratt (2:04:48.100)
for example, in picking bombing locations.
Lex Fridman (2:04:51.380)
And so, the area at which they attack.
Lex Fridman (2:04:54.540)
And so, you get, some of that stuff that you mentioned
Lex Fridman (2:04:57.540)
that drew you to the military is that teamwork
Devon Larratt (2:05:03.420)
between humans, that decision making.
Lex Fridman (2:05:05.860)
So, there's strategy, but built into that team
Devon Larratt (2:05:10.220)
is a deep humanity.
Lex Fridman (2:05:12.740)
Like, even when there's an enemy, there's lines
Devon Larratt (2:05:17.620)
that you're aware of, of what is ethical, what is not,
Lex Fridman (2:05:20.740)
what is just and what is not.
Lex Fridman (2:05:23.060)
And it's so easy for a machine to miss all of that,
Lex Fridman (2:05:29.900)
plow through it and do deeply inhumane acts,
Devon Larratt (2:05:33.260)
commit atrocities.
Lex Fridman (2:05:34.820)
That's something that worries a lot of people.
Devon Larratt (2:05:38.740)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:05:41.260)
Because, yeah, an AI based war is just, it's terrifying.
Devon Larratt (2:05:45.820)
Especially with cyber security, which is becoming
Lex Fridman (2:05:48.380)
more and more of an issue, which is hacking.
Devon Larratt (2:05:51.020)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:05:51.900)
Sort of people that look a lot like me
Devon Larratt (2:05:57.580)
being the warriors of the future.
Lex Fridman (2:05:59.580)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (2:06:00.420)
Which is meaning people behind a keyboard
Lex Fridman (2:06:03.420)
versus the traditional warriors.
Devon Larratt (2:06:08.340)
Probably inevitable.
Lex Fridman (2:06:11.180)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:06:12.100)
And terrifying.
Lex Fridman (2:06:13.020)
It is, it is.
Lex Fridman (2:06:14.660)
But I think if you believe that it's possible,
Lex Fridman (2:06:18.020)
it's certainly gonna happen.
Lex Fridman (2:06:19.540)
Like, at some point, it's just when, right?
Lex Fridman (2:06:22.460)
When does it happen?
Lex Fridman (2:06:24.380)
So that, I mean, to me, I'm ultimately optimistic
Lex Fridman (2:06:28.340)
about the future.
Lex Fridman (2:06:29.180)
And to me, I'm excited about the world with AI.
Lex Fridman (2:06:31.700)
I'm even excited about the metaverse
Lex Fridman (2:06:34.980)
and all these kinds of things, living more and more
Lex Fridman (2:06:37.620)
in the digital space, in the virtual reality.
Devon Larratt (2:06:40.940)
I think, so it's a part of me that grew up
Lex Fridman (2:06:43.300)
in the noninternet world, noncomputer world.
Devon Larratt (2:06:46.780)
It says, oh, kids these days with their video games.
Lex Fridman (2:06:49.740)
There's part of me that's like that.
Lex Fridman (2:06:52.340)
But I think technology at its best
Lex Fridman (2:06:56.980)
can bring out the best of humanity.
Lex Fridman (2:06:59.900)
And so I think virtual reality, all of these things,
Lex Fridman (2:07:03.180)
over time, we'll figure out how to fix it
Devon Larratt (2:07:06.780)
to bring out the humanity.
Lex Fridman (2:07:08.140)
Social networks, the first generation social networks,
Devon Larratt (2:07:12.140)
now Facebook, Twitter, and so on,
Lex Fridman (2:07:13.660)
they have so many problems.
Devon Larratt (2:07:15.020)
They're bringing out the worst in people.
Lex Fridman (2:07:17.140)
But I think we're learning from that.
Lex Fridman (2:07:18.620)
And I think the next generation of social networks
Lex Fridman (2:07:20.620)
will be better and better and better.
Lex Fridman (2:07:22.380)
And so I'm optimistic.
Lex Fridman (2:07:26.020)
But of course, one reason we may have not seen aliens yet,
Devon Larratt (2:07:30.940)
obviously, like in a way that's obvious,
Lex Fridman (2:07:34.180)
is because once you get clever and smart
Lex Fridman (2:07:36.980)
and have all this cool technology, you destroy yourself.
Lex Fridman (2:07:40.220)
And we sure as humans are pretty close to that.
Devon Larratt (2:07:42.980)
Yeah, yeah, there might be that limit
Lex Fridman (2:07:45.060)
that is hard to get right.
Devon Larratt (2:07:46.940)
I'm hoping we get all our aggression between nations
Lex Fridman (2:07:49.500)
out through arm wrestling competition.
Lex Fridman (2:07:52.380)
Right?
Lex Fridman (2:07:53.340)
Just all of that life.
Devon Larratt (2:07:54.740)
Oh my God, wouldn't that be great
Lex Fridman (2:07:56.580)
if it was that simple, yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:07:59.460)
Do you know if there's another
Lex Fridman (2:08:00.380)
over the top type movie to be made?
Devon Larratt (2:08:02.260)
Oh yeah, yeah, there's always stuff in the works.
Lex Fridman (2:08:04.820)
There's actually a, there's a tournament called
Devon Larratt (2:08:07.220)
Over the Top in Australia that's a couple months away.
Lex Fridman (2:08:09.900)
I think they're doing an all the over the top scene.
Lex Fridman (2:08:11.720)
But there are arm wrestling movies
Lex Fridman (2:08:13.940)
that are being made right now.
Devon Larratt (2:08:14.980)
Actually, there's a documentary that's filming me
Lex Fridman (2:08:17.900)
for this whole Levan thing.
Lex Fridman (2:08:19.620)
But yeah, we're probably due for another big one, yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:08:23.900)
But you're also, just with your YouTube channel,
Devon Larratt (2:08:26.340)
you're doing a lot for the sport.
Lex Fridman (2:08:27.540)
That's really cool to see.
Devon Larratt (2:08:28.540)
Just being genuine, but just being like,
Lex Fridman (2:08:32.300)
looking not like you're looking today, but just like.
Devon Larratt (2:08:34.580)
Yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:08:35.420)
Just a beard.
Devon Larratt (2:08:36.340)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, normally a mess.
Lex Fridman (2:08:37.180)
Just like sleepy.
Devon Larratt (2:08:39.300)
You know, and just putting yourself out there
Lex Fridman (2:08:41.700)
completely as you are.
Devon Larratt (2:08:42.860)
That's a beautiful thing.
Lex Fridman (2:08:44.260)
The best thing about the sport
Devon Larratt (2:08:45.460)
is it brings people together.
Lex Fridman (2:08:47.080)
That's it.
Devon Larratt (2:08:47.920)
Yeah, the community, the folks I got to interact with,
Lex Fridman (2:08:50.200)
just so awesome, so excited, so full of kindness.
Devon Larratt (2:08:54.280)
I'm definitely gonna find the club here
Lex Fridman (2:08:55.900)
and start working on my arm wrestling game.
Devon Larratt (2:09:02.180)
Devin, this is such a huge honor
Lex Fridman (2:09:03.900)
that you would spend your valuable time.
Devon Larratt (2:09:07.220)
You would come down to Austin.
Lex Fridman (2:09:09.020)
You would hang out with me and do this conversation.
Devon Larratt (2:09:14.220)
Super cool to talk to you, Lex, yeah.
Lex Fridman (2:09:16.140)
As I mentioned, in case people,
Devon Larratt (2:09:18.260)
you know, people I'm sure will tell me.
Lex Fridman (2:09:20.940)
So I hang out with Joe Rogan all the time.
Devon Larratt (2:09:23.420)
He's a friend.
Lex Fridman (2:09:24.420)
I told him that he should talk to Devin.
Devon Larratt (2:09:26.020)
He's going through some stuff currently, you know.
Lex Fridman (2:09:29.140)
But I'm sure, I hope the conversation
Devon Larratt (2:09:31.220)
between you, Devin, and Joe happens eventually.
Lex Fridman (2:09:34.020)
He's, that would be epic as well,
Devon Larratt (2:09:36.980)
because he's a, yeah, he loves fighting.
Lex Fridman (2:09:39.820)
He loves fighting, he loves wrestling, he loves strength.
Lex Fridman (2:09:43.420)
And I think all of those are, like,
Lex Fridman (2:09:47.500)
so perfectly encapsulated in the sport of arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (2:09:51.020)
So thank you so much for talking to me.
Lex Fridman (2:09:52.660)
Thanks so much, Lex.
Devon Larratt (2:09:55.820)
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Devin Larratt.
Lex Fridman (2:09:58.660)
To support this podcast,
Devon Larratt (2:10:00.000)
please check out our sponsors in the description.
Lex Fridman (2:10:02.860)
And now, let me leave you with some words from Miyamoto Musashi.
Devon Larratt (2:10:07.700)
The only reason a warrior is alive is to fight.
Lex Fridman (2:10:11.900)
And the only reason a warrior fights is to win.
Devon Larratt (2:10:15.460)
Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.
Lex Fridman (30:00.660)
and I enjoy that.
Lex Fridman (30:02.700)
And just being intensely in the moment.
Lex Fridman (30:04.780)
That's it.
Devon Larratt (30:05.620)
Just right there, just fighting as hard as I can.
Lex Fridman (30:08.380)
Do you study the opponent?
Devon Larratt (30:10.060)
Have you, for this particular match,
Lex Fridman (30:12.420)
do you study videos of LeVon?
Devon Larratt (30:14.700)
I've seen everything.
Lex Fridman (30:17.640)
I've read everything.
Devon Larratt (30:20.020)
I get opinions from other people.
Lex Fridman (30:22.820)
I watch very closely, yeah.
Lex Fridman (30:25.340)
What do you make of his evolution?
Lex Fridman (30:26.860)
So he's grown in size,
Lex Fridman (30:30.540)
but also you've talked about his
Lex Fridman (30:34.860)
evolution technically as well.
Devon Larratt (30:37.380)
Then studying him.
Lex Fridman (30:40.700)
Since we're in the build your opponent
Lex Fridman (30:43.260)
to be terrifying stage, what makes him great?
Lex Fridman (30:49.420)
He's very impressive.
Devon Larratt (30:50.980)
The greatest thing about him is his strength.
Lex Fridman (30:54.660)
That's the thing that sets him apart from everyone.
Devon Larratt (30:58.700)
His strength, specialized strength.
Lex Fridman (31:01.980)
Exact strength for arm wrestling.
Devon Larratt (31:05.180)
I believe it's unmatched.
Lex Fridman (31:06.980)
Can we just linger on that word strength?
Lex Fridman (31:12.140)
What does strength mean?
Lex Fridman (31:13.860)
What does it feel like?
Lex Fridman (31:15.100)
Are we talking about bicep, shoulder?
Lex Fridman (31:21.700)
Are we talking about whatever controls the wrist?
Lex Fridman (31:25.220)
Is it the, how does strength manifest?
Lex Fridman (31:29.300)
When I touch your hand, when we grab arms,
Devon Larratt (31:32.740)
I feel like fuck, that's strong.
Lex Fridman (31:36.140)
There's control, right?
Lex Fridman (31:36.980)
What is that feeling?
Lex Fridman (31:37.820)
Where does that come from in arm wrestling?
Devon Larratt (31:40.100)
When you're at the top of the world,
Lex Fridman (31:41.700)
where does that come from?
Lex Fridman (31:42.900)
So it's chains.
Lex Fridman (31:44.820)
There's chains of strength.
Lex Fridman (31:46.580)
And in arm wrestling, this is like technical strength.
Lex Fridman (31:50.460)
And we use these technical chains to fight each other.
Devon Larratt (31:53.460)
The chains that I'll talk about is,
Lex Fridman (31:58.420)
so you'll talk, remember how we talked about the post,
Lex Fridman (32:00.980)
this upwards drive, this ability to close this angle?
Lex Fridman (32:04.980)
This is a chain.
Devon Larratt (32:07.460)
It can be used, it's a technical attack.
Lex Fridman (32:09.940)
It's also an attack that can be built with training.
Devon Larratt (32:12.620)
Just the ability to just drive upwards.
Lex Fridman (32:15.620)
There's a chain where you cup, right?
Devon Larratt (32:17.740)
Cup your wrist in.
Lex Fridman (32:18.940)
Cup your wrist in and the anchor and the chain
Devon Larratt (32:22.000)
brings you right to your heart, right to your center.
Lex Fridman (32:25.180)
This chain, and this can be done at any time.
Devon Larratt (32:27.940)
There's a pronation chain,
Lex Fridman (32:29.060)
and that's to turn your thumb over, right?
Devon Larratt (32:32.320)
Turn your thumb over and you attack
Lex Fridman (32:34.040)
the person's cupping chain.
Lex Fridman (32:36.340)
And there's a huge number of muscles
Lex Fridman (32:37.820)
involved in each of those chains.
Lex Fridman (32:39.180)
And that's why I say it's a chain, right?
Lex Fridman (32:41.220)
But they're movements, and these movements
Devon Larratt (32:45.060)
you can develop in the gym or through practice.
Lex Fridman (32:48.360)
So you don't mean, so it's easy to sort of
Devon Larratt (32:51.040)
interpret strength to mean how much you curl, essentially.
Lex Fridman (32:54.980)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (32:55.820)
But you mean the chain.
Lex Fridman (32:56.740)
It's all has to do with the.
Lex Fridman (32:57.580)
Right, and that's, I mean, people talk is it a bicep?
Lex Fridman (32:59.800)
I mean, yes, there's bicep for sure involved,
Lex Fridman (33:01.860)
but I'll always be inaccurate if I try and tell you
Lex Fridman (33:05.640)
what muscles are the, so I prefer to explain it
Devon Larratt (33:08.500)
in a movement and then everything that's involved
Lex Fridman (33:11.300)
to do that movement, right?
Devon Larratt (33:13.740)
Yeah, and Levan's movements for arm wrestling
Lex Fridman (33:17.400)
are incredibly impressive.
Lex Fridman (33:19.340)
What do you attribute to, how much of that is genetics?
Lex Fridman (33:22.340)
How much of it is some training thing he's doing?
Devon Larratt (33:28.320)
I think that Levan is very special in terms
Lex Fridman (33:32.460)
of his genetics, like not everybody can be Levan.
Lex Fridman (33:36.780)
You know?
Lex Fridman (33:37.620)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (33:38.440)
There's not many Levans out there.
Lex Fridman (33:41.100)
But what I've encountered in the bias that I always see,
Devon Larratt (33:44.940)
like when people talk about people like Levan,
Lex Fridman (33:48.020)
they discount the other side so very quickly.
Lex Fridman (33:51.460)
And the thing is Levan rarely has to show the other side
Lex Fridman (33:54.500)
because he's so far ahead.
Devon Larratt (33:56.540)
You talk about the technical application of the sport,
Lex Fridman (33:59.300)
he so rarely needs to show it, but he's clearly incredible.
Devon Larratt (34:03.460)
If you watch his progression, he came up
Lex Fridman (34:07.820)
having very difficult technical struggles to overcome.
Devon Larratt (34:11.100)
Georgia is a great country for arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (34:13.860)
Like there's this guy, Gennady Kvikvinia,
Devon Larratt (34:15.340)
who no one would ever say is not technical.
Lex Fridman (34:18.980)
And you know, it took him years to defeat him
Devon Larratt (34:23.660)
to a point where now it's not even a discussion.
Lex Fridman (34:26.940)
Yeah, you talk about the progression,
Devon Larratt (34:28.220)
they had a lot of battles together over the years.
Lex Fridman (34:30.340)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (34:31.180)
It's fascinating to see the tides turn.
Lex Fridman (34:32.980)
Oh yeah, and once they've turned,
Devon Larratt (34:34.740)
it's like completely, completely different level.
Lex Fridman (34:38.900)
Yeah, I mean, he's got strength, he's got technique.
Devon Larratt (34:43.740)
Some people will argue that his technique is flawed.
Lex Fridman (34:48.660)
At times, they've shown matches where
Devon Larratt (34:51.780)
he hasn't shown the best technique, but he's still won.
Lex Fridman (34:54.940)
And I think sometimes he just plays with people.
Devon Larratt (34:58.060)
You know, like there's a famous match that he had with,
Lex Fridman (35:03.060)
they call him the Bruce Lee of arm wrestling,
Devon Larratt (35:05.580)
a guy called Angurbaev, Kurtagali Angurbaev.
Lex Fridman (35:08.180)
He's, they had a match in the top eight, great match.
Devon Larratt (35:11.660)
Kurtagali is like 220 pound guy from Kazakhstan,
Lex Fridman (35:17.500)
brilliant technician, but power wise,
Devon Larratt (35:19.900)
you know, not in the same world.
Lex Fridman (35:22.580)
And Kurtagali did well, even though he lost six nothing,
Devon Larratt (35:26.820)
he still did well, but in my opinion, Levan didn't care.
Lex Fridman (35:31.940)
Levan was like grabbing him low and just like, whatever.
Devon Larratt (35:34.940)
Like, I will show him things that he's not seen before.
Lex Fridman (35:38.540)
I will.
Lex Fridman (35:39.380)
And he hasn't competed often in this rule set,
Lex Fridman (35:42.980)
which will be a challenge for him.
Lex Fridman (35:45.540)
But yeah, what can I say?
Lex Fridman (35:48.020)
Like Levan, he's Everest.
Devon Larratt (35:50.460)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lex Fridman (35:51.820)
Yeah, you are seen by basically everybody
Devon Larratt (35:54.540)
as the big, big underdog.
Lex Fridman (35:56.220)
But you're also, even in the Eastern,
Devon Larratt (35:58.820)
even, I mean, I talk to Russians a lot.
Lex Fridman (36:02.580)
You know that moment in Rocky
Lex Fridman (36:05.260)
when they start cheering for Rocky?
Lex Fridman (36:06.820)
Yeah, yeah.
Devon Larratt (36:07.980)
You're kind of the, they love you, they want you to win.
Lex Fridman (36:11.020)
And just, you know, it's not even,
Devon Larratt (36:13.780)
just the battle itself is inspiring.
Lex Fridman (36:16.500)
And it's like the culmination in your career
Devon Larratt (36:19.780)
because it's, you know, you're at the top for a long time,
Lex Fridman (36:23.980)
but it's like, it's almost like it should be over for you,
Lex Fridman (36:26.860)
but no, you're returning.
Lex Fridman (36:28.140)
It is like this big moment.
Devon Larratt (36:31.620)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (36:32.460)
The big climb.
Devon Larratt (36:34.060)
I will be the pointy end of the spear for North America.
Lex Fridman (36:38.180)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (36:39.820)
Ah, beautiful.
Lex Fridman (36:40.660)
Well, let's, thanks for bringing that match up.
Devon Larratt (36:43.740)
Let's talk about just the match against Dennis,
Lex Fridman (36:50.180)
your left hand match.
Devon Larratt (36:51.660)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (36:52.500)
He's also terrifying and seen as one of the strongest,
Devon Larratt (36:54.980)
probably one of, if not the strongest
Lex Fridman (36:58.180)
left hand arm wrestler.
Devon Larratt (36:59.840)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (37:01.940)
There's a lot to be said there.
Devon Larratt (37:03.860)
Maybe you could talk about this match at a high level.
Lex Fridman (37:06.340)
Why did you take on this match?
Lex Fridman (37:08.060)
Why did you do the left hand versus the right hand?
Lex Fridman (37:10.660)
What, can you tell the story?
Devon Larratt (37:12.340)
Okay, Dennis the Plankoff.
Lex Fridman (37:15.060)
There's so much about this match.
Devon Larratt (37:17.100)
I love Dennis.
Lex Fridman (37:18.260)
Russian guy.
Devon Larratt (37:19.340)
Yeah, Russian guy.
Lex Fridman (37:20.540)
Russian, I used to call him Dennis Chernobyl.
Devon Larratt (37:23.300)
Ah, what a monster.
Lex Fridman (37:27.540)
He kind of led, I'd say, this new era of arm wrestling,
Devon Larratt (37:34.620)
where the super heavyweight strength level
Lex Fridman (37:37.660)
has just gone through the roof.
Devon Larratt (37:40.260)
I wanted the match for such a long time.
Lex Fridman (37:42.220)
We tried to get the match.
Devon Larratt (37:44.300)
We couldn't get it organized.
Lex Fridman (37:45.460)
This is back in like 2008 to 2012.
Devon Larratt (37:48.660)
Couldn't get the match, couldn't get the match.
Lex Fridman (37:50.500)
I've always been more of a one on one puller.
Devon Larratt (37:52.380)
He was doing the tournament format.
Lex Fridman (37:55.140)
I was ranked number one in the world,
Lex Fridman (37:57.220)
and towards the end, it kind of was very undecided.
Lex Fridman (38:00.580)
I ended up getting surgery.
Devon Larratt (38:02.260)
I ended up abandoning the super heavyweight division.
Lex Fridman (38:05.180)
I went down to the 225s for a few years.
Devon Larratt (38:08.980)
WAL failed, temporarily.
Lex Fridman (38:13.340)
So the 225 pound division was scrapped.
Lex Fridman (38:15.820)
And I said, okay, I'm going to go for the big crown once again.
Lex Fridman (38:21.060)
And I started to go after super heavyweights.
Devon Larratt (38:26.020)
The 2018 season was right hand.
Lex Fridman (38:33.620)
I started to enter negotiations to have the match with him.
Devon Larratt (38:38.060)
We'd been chasing the match for 10 years.
Lex Fridman (38:41.020)
They wanted to do a left hand.
Devon Larratt (38:42.300)
I wanted to do a right hand.
Lex Fridman (38:44.340)
I just wanted to do the match.
Devon Larratt (38:46.300)
I wanted to do the match with Dennis.
Lex Fridman (38:47.580)
I wanted to meet Dennis.
Lex Fridman (38:48.780)
So people should know that you were,
Lex Fridman (38:50.980)
the right hand has always been your strongest.
Devon Larratt (38:53.540)
It has been, I mean, I had surgery in 2016.
Lex Fridman (38:57.500)
I hate to make excuses.
Devon Larratt (38:59.220)
I hate to do it.
Lex Fridman (39:01.860)
Dennis was better than me that day, even on my best day.
Devon Larratt (39:05.060)
If you had gone back my entire career,
Lex Fridman (39:07.820)
at no single day do I beat Dennis De Plankhoff in 2018.
Devon Larratt (39:11.580)
I would like to think that I could maybe do it now.
Lex Fridman (39:14.300)
But at that point, there would have been no version
Devon Larratt (39:16.740)
that could have beat him.
Lex Fridman (39:18.980)
Left or right?
Lex Fridman (39:20.420)
Right hand?
Lex Fridman (39:21.060)
No, I'm curious about the right, but left hand.
Lex Fridman (39:25.500)
So is the world.
Lex Fridman (39:27.380)
Well, it might still happen.
Devon Larratt (39:28.580)
It might.
Lex Fridman (39:29.420)
But Dennis completely destroyed me.
Lex Fridman (39:36.900)
And I learned a lot from it.
Lex Fridman (39:40.460)
I think before the Dennis match, I think I was, I don't know.
Devon Larratt (39:46.980)
I don't know exactly what words to use.
Lex Fridman (39:49.820)
Maybe I felt like my thinking was a little bit elitist.
Lex Fridman (39:54.900)
And I really learned a lot.
Lex Fridman (39:57.060)
I was really humbled that day by how far, and how professional,
Lex Fridman (40:03.620)
and how prepared Dennis was, and how seriously he
Lex Fridman (40:07.860)
took the sport.
Devon Larratt (40:09.460)
There's a mental, a slightly terrifying calmness
Lex Fridman (40:14.020)
to him, which only comes with extreme preparation, I think.
Devon Larratt (40:17.860)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (40:18.380)
His level of dedication was extremely inspiring to me.
Devon Larratt (40:26.300)
I used to do a job where it was serious enough
Lex Fridman (40:34.340)
that the price could be death.
Lex Fridman (40:37.780)
And I arm wrestled throughout that entire period.
Lex Fridman (40:41.660)
And I always kind of looked at the cost of doing an activity,
Devon Larratt (40:49.900)
being death, limited to soldiering.
Lex Fridman (40:55.940)
And I kind of changed my mind a lot after that match.
Devon Larratt (41:00.380)
I realized that anything that you're in love with,
Lex Fridman (41:04.620)
once you get far enough down the road,
Lex Fridman (41:06.660)
and professional enough at it, it's going to kill you.
Lex Fridman (41:09.980)
Doesn't matter what you're doing, if you're crazy enough
Devon Larratt (41:12.380)
about anything, it's probably going to take your life
Lex Fridman (41:15.300)
from you in some way.
Lex Fridman (41:18.980)
And that doesn't mean you rush towards death.
Lex Fridman (41:21.340)
It's just your level of investment and level of risk
Devon Larratt (41:24.140)
can have some catastrophic effects.
Lex Fridman (41:27.580)
Bukowski, Charles Bukowski, I think
Devon Larratt (41:29.460)
has the quote, do what you love and let it kill you.
Lex Fridman (41:32.940)
Right.
Devon Larratt (41:33.300)
Like that.
Lex Fridman (41:33.940)
Right.
Lex Fridman (41:35.420)
And I understood that Dennis's level of professionalism
Lex Fridman (41:40.660)
far exceeded mine in what we were doing at the time.
Lex Fridman (41:45.700)
And I realized that I was no longer employed.
Lex Fridman (41:50.420)
I was now in the world of professional arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (41:54.340)
And I realized that what was I doing?
Lex Fridman (41:58.940)
How serious was I?
Lex Fridman (42:00.580)
So Dennis is an incredible guy.
Lex Fridman (42:02.820)
Is there moments in that match, there's
Devon Larratt (42:04.980)
humility there, too, from him.
Lex Fridman (42:07.740)
That was a fascinating sort of, it
Devon Larratt (42:12.100)
seemed like you realized that you just hit a wall
Lex Fridman (42:14.540)
and you were not ready enough for it.
Devon Larratt (42:16.220)
It was incredible.
Lex Fridman (42:17.860)
There was so many things that I remember about the Dennis
Devon Larratt (42:20.620)
match.
Lex Fridman (42:21.120)
I mean, I remember seeing videos of somebody
Lex Fridman (42:25.220)
and then meeting them in person, it's different.
Lex Fridman (42:28.180)
I remember in the weigh ins, sorry, not the weigh ins,
Devon Larratt (42:30.580)
the standoff that we did before the match.
Lex Fridman (42:32.940)
I'm looking at him, I'm close.
Devon Larratt (42:34.740)
I'm looking at his arms.
Lex Fridman (42:36.660)
And his bicep, it looked like an ass.
Devon Larratt (42:42.100)
It was like a freaking glute muscle.
Lex Fridman (42:44.500)
Like his entire structure was so sinewy and just so strong.
Devon Larratt (42:51.660)
I was like, wow, he's physically so impressive.
Lex Fridman (42:55.180)
And I remember when I arm wrestled him at a certain time,
Devon Larratt (43:01.500)
he allowed me to kind of set my position.
Lex Fridman (43:04.660)
You can't really tell because it happens very quickly.
Lex Fridman (43:09.300)
But he let me set my position, which
Lex Fridman (43:10.940)
means I kind of got my locks in, where you can kind of really
Devon Larratt (43:15.340)
do a great hold.
Lex Fridman (43:18.140)
And he just ripped through me.
Lex Fridman (43:20.340)
So you were able to get this great position.
Lex Fridman (43:23.940)
So it was tore right through me.
Lex Fridman (43:27.700)
And the first time I ever thought
Lex Fridman (43:30.740)
that I had torn something.
Devon Larratt (43:33.300)
I thought, after the match, I'm like,
Lex Fridman (43:34.780)
geez, did he rip my chest right in half?
Lex Fridman (43:38.740)
What, did it?
Lex Fridman (43:40.460)
No, I think it was 100%.
Devon Larratt (43:42.140)
Yeah, no, I didn't actually.
Lex Fridman (43:43.940)
Nothing went purple or anything.
Lex Fridman (43:45.980)
But yeah, the strength gap was very significant with Dennis.
Lex Fridman (43:52.940)
Could he, what would it take to beat him on that day?
Devon Larratt (43:58.060)
It would take me just being a little bit stronger and more
Lex Fridman (44:04.860)
healthy, yeah.
Devon Larratt (44:06.580)
My left was not as healthy as it should be.
Lex Fridman (44:10.260)
I didn't have a full rounded technical arsenal.
Devon Larratt (44:13.820)
It takes a time after surgery.
Lex Fridman (44:15.780)
It really does.
Devon Larratt (44:17.780)
You can be good, but after a surgery, like what I had,
Lex Fridman (44:22.180)
you're probably looking at three or four years
Devon Larratt (44:24.140)
before you're starting to hit technical proficiency
Lex Fridman (44:26.780)
the way you should be.
Lex Fridman (44:28.780)
And yeah, just a bit stronger.
Lex Fridman (44:31.260)
How do you interpret the calmness on his face?
Lex Fridman (44:33.700)
Well, what is that about?
Lex Fridman (44:35.180)
Is he actually that calm or is he just trained?
Devon Larratt (44:37.500)
It's a Russian thing, I think.
Lex Fridman (44:38.860)
I don't know.
Devon Larratt (44:39.340)
I see a lot of Russians like that.
Lex Fridman (44:41.060)
They're so stoic.
Lex Fridman (44:42.700)
And I'm such a fan of Russia.
Lex Fridman (44:44.780)
I really want to go to Moscow.
Devon Larratt (44:46.220)
I've been saying it forever.
Lex Fridman (44:47.500)
You've never been?
Devon Larratt (44:48.220)
Not yet.
Lex Fridman (44:49.260)
I want to go.
Devon Larratt (44:50.260)
I want to just go and live there for a month and just train.
Lex Fridman (44:53.460)
Moscow has got such a crazy arm wrestling scene.
Devon Larratt (44:56.620)
From what I understand, they just have so many clubs.
Lex Fridman (44:58.700)
There's so many strong athletes.
Devon Larratt (45:00.580)
Just go and just lightning rod.
Lex Fridman (45:03.420)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (45:04.020)
Have you considered doing something of that sort?
Lex Fridman (45:08.020)
It's like Rocky IV again.
Devon Larratt (45:09.860)
Oh, yeah.
Lex Fridman (45:11.460)
And lead up to June.
Devon Larratt (45:12.980)
I would certainly consider it.
Lex Fridman (45:14.580)
I've got only one trip planned at the moment.
Devon Larratt (45:19.660)
Administration is very important.
Lex Fridman (45:22.900)
What do you mean by administration?
Lex Fridman (45:24.300)
Like managing your time?
Lex Fridman (45:25.380)
Management.
Devon Larratt (45:26.060)
Yeah, the management has to be very efficient.
Lex Fridman (45:29.340)
When I'm a tourist, when I'm a visitor,
Devon Larratt (45:31.900)
a little bit of that goes down.
Lex Fridman (45:33.740)
When I'm at my home and things are familiar,
Devon Larratt (45:37.140)
I've got a really great grasp on my time.
Lex Fridman (45:40.420)
Everything's in place.
Devon Larratt (45:41.860)
Everything's perfect.
Lex Fridman (45:43.900)
If I could magically transport Moscow into my hometown
Lex Fridman (45:47.540)
and just go out and visit them, yeah.
Lex Fridman (45:50.100)
So it's very difficult when you're traveling.
Devon Larratt (45:53.180)
You have to figure out what you're eating,
Lex Fridman (45:55.780)
how are you getting the food, all the socializing.
Devon Larratt (45:58.500)
Plus, you're more and more a celebrity,
Lex Fridman (46:00.980)
so there's a social interaction, which
Devon Larratt (46:02.980)
I don't know how draining that could be on you
Lex Fridman (46:05.500)
outside of the arm wrestling table.
Lex Fridman (46:07.580)
So you have to manage all of that,
Lex Fridman (46:09.540)
because ultimately, you have to focus on the fight ahead.
Devon Larratt (46:13.940)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (46:14.820)
Yeah, a lot of my strength comes from just
Devon Larratt (46:18.340)
being in a familiar place, doing my routine.
Lex Fridman (46:22.300)
I love to travel.
Devon Larratt (46:23.740)
I love to get out there and meet people and new experiences.
Lex Fridman (46:29.100)
But when I just want to really prepare for a big match,
Devon Larratt (46:32.340)
yeah, home is where I get strong.
Lex Fridman (46:35.580)
So that loss against Dennis was one
Devon Larratt (46:38.140)
of the few losses in your career.
Lex Fridman (46:40.820)
How did that feel in the moments after, in the days after,
Lex Fridman (46:46.060)
in the months after, in the years after?
Lex Fridman (46:48.460)
How has it changed you as an arm wrestler as a human being?
Devon Larratt (46:53.260)
Well, it's tough to lose.
Lex Fridman (46:58.380)
Still haunt you?
Devon Larratt (47:01.860)
I don't think so.
Lex Fridman (47:02.620)
I actually was really happy to lose to Dennis,
Devon Larratt (47:05.220)
because sometimes when you lose a match,
Lex Fridman (47:08.460)
there's a lot of matches that I've lost where they upset me,
Devon Larratt (47:11.900)
because I know I made a mistake.
Lex Fridman (47:13.940)
I didn't make a mistake with Dennis.
Devon Larratt (47:15.360)
He was just way better.
Lex Fridman (47:17.300)
There's nothing I could have done that day.
Devon Larratt (47:19.780)
I'm really at peace with it.
Lex Fridman (47:22.820)
Dennis, to me, was just a big inspiration.
Devon Larratt (47:25.300)
I think that me arm wrestling Dennis left handed that day
Lex Fridman (47:28.260)
just let me touch probably one of the strongest
Devon Larratt (47:31.620)
human beings on the arm wrestling table
Lex Fridman (47:33.220)
that's ever lived, left handed.
Lex Fridman (47:36.820)
So knowing that's possible is almost like inspiration to you
Lex Fridman (47:41.980)
that I can be at that level, too.
Devon Larratt (47:43.420)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (47:45.340)
Seeing what Dennis did, just trying
Devon Larratt (47:48.460)
to absorb a little bit of his knowledge planted seeds in me.
Lex Fridman (47:54.740)
When I look at my career, it's a bit like the stock market.
Lex Fridman (47:59.020)
But for sure, I'm trending upwards.
Lex Fridman (48:02.080)
And since really kind of wrapping my mind
Devon Larratt (48:05.980)
around some of the Russian philosophies,
Lex Fridman (48:09.220)
they really changed my training systems.
Devon Larratt (48:12.180)
There were some base philosophies
Lex Fridman (48:14.380)
that they talked to me about over there
Devon Larratt (48:16.540)
that massively impacted my training.
Lex Fridman (48:19.660)
Is it possible to convert some of those philosophies
Lex Fridman (48:21.940)
into words?
Lex Fridman (48:22.620)
Can you describe some of the ideas they taught you?
Devon Larratt (48:25.860)
Never smile.
Lex Fridman (48:27.940)
Right?
Devon Larratt (48:29.340)
Man, it takes a while to break the ice
Lex Fridman (48:32.380)
with a lot of these guys.
Devon Larratt (48:34.620)
Well, once you do, that's the deepest bonds you can form.
Lex Fridman (48:37.780)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Devon Larratt (48:39.680)
I think that I was raised under, I believe it's a flawed.
Lex Fridman (48:46.020)
I mean, it's not flawed, because it has its value as well.
Lex Fridman (48:50.700)
But it's best if you understand both philosophies.
Lex Fridman (48:54.940)
I think a North American thing that's
Devon Larratt (48:57.500)
just so ingrained in our fitness society is no pain, no gain.
Lex Fridman (49:05.340)
And just pushing, and sweating, and going harder,
Lex Fridman (49:09.380)
and fighting through, and grit, and tough.
Lex Fridman (49:14.860)
And then you talk to the Russians,
Lex Fridman (49:16.220)
and they're like, yeah, never fail.
Lex Fridman (49:18.220)
You never fail.
Devon Larratt (49:19.380)
Never go to failure.
Lex Fridman (49:21.480)
Always feel good.
Devon Larratt (49:23.140)
Always feel good.
Lex Fridman (49:23.940)
It should always feel good.
Lex Fridman (49:26.660)
And those two philosophies express themselves
Lex Fridman (49:29.560)
very differently.
Lex Fridman (49:31.980)
And if you want to get strong, yeah, don't fail.
Lex Fridman (49:36.340)
Don't fail.
Lex Fridman (49:37.540)
So they also are believers of volume.
Lex Fridman (49:41.660)
Yeah, there's a lot of strategies,
Lex Fridman (49:44.900)
but volume is a massive principle.
Lex Fridman (49:47.380)
And volume is very hard to achieve
Devon Larratt (49:50.580)
when you're believing in no pain, no gain.
Lex Fridman (49:53.780)
They don't really go together.
Devon Larratt (49:55.380)
No pain, no gain, more injuries.
Lex Fridman (49:58.840)
So is there parallels?
Devon Larratt (50:00.340)
Because in wrestling, some of the greatest wrestlers
Lex Fridman (50:03.060)
of all time are Russian.
Lex Fridman (50:04.540)
And they were big, Dan Gable talks about it,
Lex Fridman (50:07.460)
they were big on play.
Devon Larratt (50:10.060)
Like, lighter wrestling is probably,
Lex Fridman (50:12.780)
ultimately, actually, it boils down to
Devon Larratt (50:15.500)
that's how you achieve higher volume.
Lex Fridman (50:17.900)
Like, over the stretch of years,
Devon Larratt (50:20.240)
the way to reduce injury.
Lex Fridman (50:24.020)
I mean, in wrestling also, technique
Devon Larratt (50:27.620)
might have greater value than it does in arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (50:32.200)
Obviously, technique is extremely important
Devon Larratt (50:33.860)
in arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (50:34.740)
But power can defeat technique, it seems like.
Devon Larratt (50:40.420)
In wrestling, you can get away.
Lex Fridman (50:42.560)
There's a lot of ways you can really do sneak attacks,
Devon Larratt (50:46.620)
sort of use leverage on those kinds of things.
Lex Fridman (50:49.000)
So there's even more incentive to do play
Lex Fridman (50:51.860)
and all that kind of stuff.
Lex Fridman (50:53.420)
But do you see the parallels between the two worlds,
Lex Fridman (50:57.060)
wrestling and arm wrestling?
Lex Fridman (50:58.100)
100%.
Lex Fridman (50:59.000)
Well, you saw what I did the other night, right?
Lex Fridman (51:01.500)
So I'm playing on the table for hours, right?
Lex Fridman (51:04.220)
So that's my number one training thing that I do,
Lex Fridman (51:09.180)
is I go on the table for hours and I play.
Devon Larratt (51:13.060)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (51:14.020)
Yeah, when you did, Sergey, can you pull up that video?
Devon Larratt (51:16.800)
It's on Devin's channel, the water tank one.
Lex Fridman (51:20.340)
Oh, it's like 180p.
Devon Larratt (51:22.140)
It's like, the wifi in there was so bad.
Lex Fridman (51:25.220)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (51:26.060)
It's great, I love it.
Lex Fridman (51:26.900)
It's, maybe, I don't know if it was fish eye,
Lex Fridman (51:29.740)
but it had a fish eye feel, it was crowded.
Lex Fridman (51:32.300)
I mean, so much camaraderie, it was amazing.
Lex Fridman (51:34.900)
But maybe just a brief mention of Dimitri,
Lex Fridman (51:39.260)
the Russian guy.
Lex Fridman (51:42.300)
What, in that play, what are some memorable things here?
Lex Fridman (51:48.900)
Like, when you go against a bunch of different people,
Devon Larratt (51:51.260)
a bunch of strangers, what are all the differences
Lex Fridman (51:54.020)
and how do you grow from them, how do you learn from them?
Devon Larratt (51:56.460)
Well, everybody's a bit different.
Lex Fridman (51:58.000)
So, I love to go to new clubs,
Devon Larratt (52:02.140)
because the energy's always high.
Lex Fridman (52:04.260)
Like, the first time you go to a club,
Devon Larratt (52:06.100)
everybody's trying to kill you.
Lex Fridman (52:07.480)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (52:08.320)
Yeah, so they're gonna.
Lex Fridman (52:09.140)
There's excitement and there's this,
Lex Fridman (52:09.980)
and so you feed off of that.
Lex Fridman (52:11.060)
Yeah, you do, you can, if you're able to be strong enough
Devon Larratt (52:14.420)
to absorb it without injury, it's awesome, it's awesome.
Lex Fridman (52:19.060)
Because they're giving you everything they can.
Devon Larratt (52:20.460)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman (52:23.460)
Right, so it's very specific, right?
Devon Larratt (52:26.040)
Like, I'm gonna get way stronger at arm wrestling.
Lex Fridman (52:28.100)
And what I try and do, when I go to these places,
Devon Larratt (52:31.360)
is I make an assumption, I make an assumption
Lex Fridman (52:34.300)
that I'm the best guy there.
Lex Fridman (52:36.140)
And so, I'll arm wrestle in a way that kind of protects them,
Lex Fridman (52:41.420)
because the more I can protect them
Lex Fridman (52:43.400)
and kind of keep them kind of in a good position,
Lex Fridman (52:47.340)
they can actually give me more, right?
Devon Larratt (52:49.700)
So, I kind of give them little pieces
Lex Fridman (52:52.760)
that I think will put them in a place
Devon Larratt (52:55.500)
that they can really give me more.
Lex Fridman (52:58.300)
And so, yeah, that's what I'm doing.
Lex Fridman (53:00.420)
And then, when I see somebody like Dimitri,
Lex Fridman (53:03.660)
I pull that in a little bit, right?
Devon Larratt (53:06.180)
So, okay, so I know Dimitri's the number one guy in Texas.
Lex Fridman (53:10.800)
Lots of respect to the guy.
Devon Larratt (53:12.340)
I won't give him all the pieces
Lex Fridman (53:15.020)
until I really kind of gauge where he's at,
Devon Larratt (53:17.780)
because I certainly, in training, don't wanna fail.
Lex Fridman (53:21.420)
I don't want that, I don't want to.
Devon Larratt (53:24.020)
When you fail in arm wrestling,
Lex Fridman (53:26.420)
imagine it's just bad technique.
Lex Fridman (53:28.500)
And you're trying, and bad technique,
Lex Fridman (53:30.060)
you're gonna get hurt, yeah.
Devon Larratt (53:31.900)
So, you always want to be in a strong position here.
Lex Fridman (53:34.020)
What about, how does endurance come into play here?
Lex Fridman (53:37.060)
And here's video of you strapping up with Dimitri.
Lex Fridman (53:39.980)
How do you, I mean, you went for like, I don't know,
Lex Fridman (53:43.120)
two hours?
Lex Fridman (53:43.960)
Yeah, it was long.
Devon Larratt (53:44.900)
So, this first run of the video, I think,
Lex Fridman (53:47.640)
was a little over an hour, and then I took a break,
Lex Fridman (53:50.300)
and I probably did another 45 minutes or so, but.
Lex Fridman (53:53.380)
I mean, do you, how can, are you okay
Lex Fridman (53:57.580)
with the endurance aspect of this?
Lex Fridman (53:58.900)
Yeah, that's probably, like, when you talk
Devon Larratt (54:00.820)
to the arm wrestling world, that's probably
Lex Fridman (54:02.260)
what I'm best known for, is my endurance.
Devon Larratt (54:05.020)
So, this helps build that.
Lex Fridman (54:07.120)
It does, but that's not why I'm doing it.
Devon Larratt (54:08.860)
I'm doing it to get strong.
Lex Fridman (54:11.060)
In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get strong,
Devon Larratt (54:14.780)
especially far away from a tournament,
Lex Fridman (54:17.980)
or any kind of an event.
Devon Larratt (54:21.780)
I wouldn't wanna do this, you know, even a month,
Lex Fridman (54:25.300)
or even six weeks, or even, maybe even eight weeks
Devon Larratt (54:28.440)
before a big event.
Lex Fridman (54:29.760)
I'd want to already be kind of shrinking my volume,
Lex Fridman (54:33.300)
but far away from an event, yeah, as much volume
Lex Fridman (54:36.600)
as your body can handle, and you'll feel it.
Devon Larratt (54:38.540)
You'll feel it.
Lex Fridman (54:39.360)
Like, I felt it at times, like, you know,
Devon Larratt (54:41.580)
after the hour mark, I'm like, okay,
Lex Fridman (54:43.100)
I can feel my blood sugar kind of diminishing.
Devon Larratt (54:45.600)
I can feel, like, the blood that's going to my muscles
Lex Fridman (54:48.700)
is kinda like, it's not really pushing more good stuff in.
Devon Larratt (54:53.340)
It's, I'm starting to break down, and you don't want that.
Lex Fridman (54:56.440)
You don't want that.
Devon Larratt (54:57.960)
Quick pause.
Lex Fridman (54:58.800)
Bathroom break?
Devon Larratt (54:59.900)
I'm good, I'm good.
Lex Fridman (55:00.900)
I kinda need one.
Devon Larratt (55:02.580)
I'll maybe get a sweater, it's a bit.
Lex Fridman (55:04.380)
Is it cold?
Lex Fridman (55:05.380)
Does that matter?
Lex Fridman (55:06.200)
Does that care for kind of continuity?
Devon Larratt (55:07.900)
No, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman (55:08.720)
I can make it warmer.
Devon Larratt (55:09.560)
No, no, no, I'll just put a sweater on,
Lex Fridman (55:10.400)
it's fine, but that doesn't matter.
Lex Fridman (55:12.180)
And I still love the idea of you going to Russia.
Lex Fridman (55:14.400)
Yeah.
Lex Fridman (55:15.240)
And training there.
Lex Fridman (55:16.340)
Yeah.
Devon Larratt (55:17.180)
I'm also making a trip out to Russia.
Lex Fridman (55:18.880)
Oh yeah, when?
Devon Larratt (55:19.720)
For different reasons.
Lex Fridman (55:20.560)
Well, it's hard with the current conflict,
Devon Larratt (55:23.260)
the tensions there, but I'm hoping before your match,
Lex Fridman (55:26.180)
actually, so May, for a couple of interviews
Devon Larratt (55:29.220)
with a couple of folks, some of which people know.
Lex Fridman (55:34.380)
Maybe I could ask you about,
Devon Larratt (55:37.640)
to comment on some matches that stand out to you
Lex Fridman (55:40.020)
in your career.
Devon Larratt (55:42.860)
Sure.
Lex Fridman (55:45.540)
Is there something, is there a particular,
Devon Larratt (55:48.380)
I have a bunch that I really enjoy,
Lex Fridman (55:50.060)
but is there something that stands out to you as memorable?
Devon Larratt (55:54.260)
We talked about sort of a defining loss, perhaps,
Lex Fridman (55:58.860)
to Dennis.
Devon Larratt (56:00.660)
Then you faced Michael Todd, like you mentioned,
Lex Fridman (56:04.900)
John Brzenk, you faced Matt.
Devon Larratt (56:09.880)
Is there something that stands out to you
Lex Fridman (56:11.720)
that technically or psychologically
Lex Fridman (56:14.620)
you've learned a lot from?
Lex Fridman (56:17.940)
I feel like I try and learn something from every match,
Lex Fridman (56:20.320)
but there is a very special match to me
Lex Fridman (56:22.660)
that to this day, I can't explain.
Devon Larratt (56:27.900)
Very weird phenomenon.
Lex Fridman (56:30.340)
So, I think it was 2005 was my first combat tour overseas.
Devon Larratt (56:38.760)
So, it was a active tour.
Lex Fridman (56:44.660)
Among other things, I got shot during that tour,
Devon Larratt (56:48.060)
we got blown, long tour, rough tour.
Lex Fridman (56:51.060)
And I trained the whole time through
Devon Larratt (56:53.580)
knowing that at the end of this,
Lex Fridman (56:55.220)
I was gonna have a big match.
Devon Larratt (56:56.980)
So, there's a champion, a guy called Ron Bath.
Lex Fridman (57:02.200)
He's kind of, if there was no John Brzenk,
Devon Larratt (57:05.080)
there would be Ron Bath.
Lex Fridman (57:06.700)
Okay, so, extremely decorated,
Devon Larratt (57:10.220)
unbelievable arm wrestler from the United States.
Lex Fridman (57:13.240)
And this is kind of when I was just
Devon Larratt (57:15.340)
kind of coming up in the sport still.
Lex Fridman (57:17.620)
I was fairly well established,
Devon Larratt (57:18.980)
I was definitely the best guy in Canada.
Lex Fridman (57:21.060)
And I had been for a few years,
Lex Fridman (57:23.060)
but I hadn't really expanded internationally too much.
Lex Fridman (57:27.700)
So, I had a one on one match with Ron Bath
Lex Fridman (57:32.460)
and that's the one.
Lex Fridman (57:35.340)
Yeah, extremely hard fought battle.
Devon Larratt (57:39.420)
Was three one, I think, three one,
Lex Fridman (57:41.640)
but every match was really close
Lex Fridman (57:44.020)
and he won the first one.
Lex Fridman (57:45.980)
And I had to kind of dig my way out of the trenches
Lex Fridman (57:49.180)
and ended up coming back and winning.
Lex Fridman (57:51.460)
But it was a match that was probably,
Devon Larratt (57:55.300)
it was probably one of my closest matches ever.
Lex Fridman (57:58.300)
And it was.
Devon Larratt (58:00.780)
It seems like there's frustration on you.
Lex Fridman (58:02.380)
What is that?
Lex Fridman (58:03.220)
What was going through your mind here with these?
Lex Fridman (58:06.740)
Was it, first of all, going in,
Lex Fridman (58:08.000)
did you think you could beat him?
Lex Fridman (58:09.900)
What was the level of confidence?
Devon Larratt (58:10.740)
I always think I can win, like I always do.
Lex Fridman (58:13.500)
But, you know, a lot of respect to the guy.
Lex Fridman (58:17.940)
But yeah, I mean, I always think I can do it.
Lex Fridman (58:21.340)
So how did, what lessons did you take away from it?
Lex Fridman (58:24.660)
Why is it so meaningful to you?
Lex Fridman (58:27.500)
Well, it's what happened afterwards.
Devon Larratt (58:29.580)
So, I had some kind of a release afterwards.
Lex Fridman (58:33.980)
And that was the strange thing to me.
Devon Larratt (58:36.300)
So, match ended and I felt like,
Lex Fridman (58:41.300)
so relaxed afterwards, so calm, so, so, you know, satisfied.
Devon Larratt (58:47.620)
Because it was one of those matches
Lex Fridman (58:49.780)
that kind of takes everything from you, but you win it.
Lex Fridman (58:53.860)
And I was relaxing in the chair
Lex Fridman (58:57.820)
and I've never had this sensation before.
Devon Larratt (59:01.500)
I've never had it afterwards,
Lex Fridman (59:03.380)
but it's like the center of my backbone just exploded.
Lex Fridman (59:07.740)
And it was like, it's so weird, right?
Lex Fridman (59:11.700)
Cause I'm not really spiritual that much or religious even,
Lex Fridman (59:14.860)
but it's like a fire just ripped through me
Lex Fridman (59:17.860)
and it only lasted an instant.
Devon Larratt (59:19.700)
Just exploded through my whole body,
Lex Fridman (59:22.140)
out the top, through my feet.
Lex Fridman (59:25.780)
And then it was gone, that was it.
Lex Fridman (59:27.780)
Weirdest thing I've ever felt in my entire life.
Devon Larratt (59:32.060)
Yeah, but it was as a result of,
Lex Fridman (59:35.100)
yeah, but it was as a result of what happened in the match
Lex Fridman (59:39.780)
and leading up to it, I had some kind of a release.
Lex Fridman (59:44.100)
To what it does, it almost,
Lex Fridman (59:46.820)
how did you interpret it psychologically?
Lex Fridman (59:48.340)
Was it like some kind of, I mean,
Devon Larratt (59:52.060)
not to be spiritual or whatever,
Lex Fridman (59:53.620)
but some kind of superpower that was like,
Devon Larratt (59:58.460)
like a lingering feeling like, holy shit, I, you know.
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